Best posts made by Lisse24

@Carex said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

I'm not talking about your paranoid, nightmare scenario. I'm talking about what really happens on a real day-to-day basis where kids go online to things like Furry MUCKs and or Anime games and someone teaches them what the vagina is for.

I'm talking about the parents that try and stop that.

Parents should try and stop that!! A kid should not learn about sex and sexuality from some rando on the internet. That is NOT OK. That is setting themselves up for an abusive situation.

And if you are online and starting up a TS scene and all of a sudden you realize the person you're RPing with is so sexually immature they don't have the basic anatomy down, the correct thing to do is to stop. Advise them to talk about their issues with their parents or other trusted adult. Then let staff know there's a minor on the game.

Exploring sex is not wrong. But adults have a responsibility to all the young people around them to make sure that they are not exploring their sexuality in a way that is inherently dangerous.

@GangOfDolls
And this is my problem with this season. If you have to tell me in after-episode interviews what happened, then you did a crappy job writing.

@Macha said in To OOC Room or Not to OOC Room (and Other Artifacts):

Right now, I'm in a scene that just popped up from people talking in the OOC lounge. Because people all were like. "You wanna do something?" And there's at least 3 people in this scene that my characters haven't had a chance to meet before now, but now they will.

Wouldn't it have been preferable to have that conversation on a channel though? There could have been someone already on grid waiting for RP, who was excluded from this scene and conversation because they weren't in the OOC room.

This regal girl is CJ.! I picked her up a week and a half ago and she's kept me far busier than I predicted!

Talents include:

• Being calm in her crate
• Chewing on things
• Stealing treats
• 'Sit' and 'Down'

Still working on:

• Going down stairs
• Walking in a straight line
• Not getting tangled in her leash
• Remembering that not everyone loves the rain as much as she does.

Active:
Arx - Daturo

Past games (In which my memory is awful....):
Spirit Lake - Will
Fate's Harvest - Cerise
SFMux - Natalie
Harper's Tale - I think my character's name started with a K. Definitely a healer, though.
Various other Pern games....
Castle D'Image - I vaguely remember playing with a guy named Thanatos
Various other independent themed that I can't remember
Aether & Aether II - So can't remember who I played...
Firan - Dafne, Lilana, Pythia, Lilah (and others I can't remember)...
Dark Metal - Some mortal that I can't remember, hung out with Tommy and another werewolf
TR - Cerise. There was also a ghoul, who I'm pretty sure was named Risa.
RFK - Kara
RFK II - Mackenzie
BITN - Cerise
Arx - Lydia, Zara
Fate's Harvest: Maddie
F & L - Danielle
Descent - Sam
Various other WoD games...

I've been struggling recently with realizing that my ideal pacing is different than many people's pacing when it comes to MUs. Specifically, I've come up against issues, where players want to go from meeting my char to Sharing All the Things within a scene or two.

Personally, unless there's a reason to speed things up, I like a slow burn. I like slowly discovering and learning about a character with maybe one or two reveals a scene, and then I like time for my character to chew on that mentally and time for other chars to chew on what my char revealed before we come back again.
Same goes for a plot, I want a Thing to happen and then I want plenty of time for my character to RP about it and consider it and make the next move.

However, it seems lots of people want fast moving plots and lots of action. So I'm curious, what do you consider good pacing in MUs and storytelling?

@WTFE said in Eliminating social stats:

I really don't give a shit. All the "Federalist Papers of RPGs" in the world doesn't change what literally thousands of years of literature has deemed to be a narrative. There is merit as a game to the "let the dice lie where they may" stance. But that merit is not a merit for narrative. Good narratives can emerge from that only by accident in the same way that getting a coherent and decent character out of a character generation system that will kill characters off part-way through can: blind luck.

And note, again, I'm not saying you're wrong for liking the "gamist" approach (as much as I fucking hate that clunky neologism). I'm saying you're wrong for thinking that the "gamist" approach made for a good narrative here. You're not doing wrongfun. You're just factually incorrect about the narrative structure.

Several times in this thread, I've heard people equate using dice as the enemy of creating narrative. I want to push back on that. I'm quoting WTFE just because this is one place where I've read that argument, but certainly, he's not the only person whose made that argument.

Here's the core of my argument: MUers are terrible writers. I don't mean that they're incapable of stringing together 3-5 sentences with vivid language in engaging poses. They can absolutely do that, by and large. No, what I mean is that, for the most part, they don't think long term about themes and beats, and what constructs a good narrative. Ex: "I'm going to have my character lose this conflict so that he can wallow for a bit and then have an awesome comeback," or "The story I'm telling with this character is one of alienation and loss and so, I want to sabotage his own attempt to become Priscus though his inability to connect."

Muers don't think that way. In general, I believe that there are two major stumbling blocks to MUers telling compelling narratives. 1) They don't like losing, and any good story has peaks and valleys. MUers avoid valleys at all costs. 2) They don't control everything. Sure, you can be telling a story of alienation, but that doesn't mean all the other chars are going to play along (I've run into this with my char over at F&L, where I had to rejigger my approach to her several times).

In these circumstances, adding random events, and letting a neutral arbiter, such as dice, determine the outcome periodically, even for social interactions, can enhance narrative. They help a player adhere to their character's nature, strengths, and weaknesses, while simultaneously adding challenges and random difficulty for that player to overcome. The knee-jerk, 'well let's just throw away social dice because players don't like losing that way,' will not enhance the narratives told on that game, it will diminish them.

I want to add that I'm fine with people doing whatever if I choose not to do it, and that I don't view myself as one of those people out there to "win" the game.

I am worried about systems being sold as optional, but in the end become a necessity just to keep up with the game. "Keeping up with the game" being defined as finding meaningful RP and being able to interact with plot in some manner or another.

If the way that fashion is implemented allows me to ignore it completely, and doesn't result in me needing to go out and buy some prettyprettything to be included in PlotX, then I'm fine with it.

@WildBaboons said in L&L Options?:

I ran the Daes dae'mar (great game, political stuff) for a WoT game for a few years and mostly what I found was that people are just terrible at political maneuvering but think they're awesome. hamfisted maneuvers are thought to be great sweeps of intrigues and people get really upset when people point out that what they did was actually really dumb with negative consequences.

For me that I don't see the connection between L&L and high adventure. In my concept for L&L those tend to be opposite, unless you're looking for the idle rich who can use their copious downtime to adventure.

This is actually a peeve of mine on political games. You sometimes see where someone puts in a political action, and the ST goes, 'well, that's stupid politically' and the person gets dinged for it (or the converse, where the ST thinks it was a good move and it works out well for the person).

The thing is, we don't run combat by fiat. The ST doesn't get to say, "Yes, throwing a punch here is better than a kick, so you win," and I'm of the opinion that political RP should be the same way.

There should 1) be systems that players can manipulate and then 2) How well they manipulate it should come down to their sheet and their rolls and 3) When a player is way off base, but is playing a character that is supposed to be savvy, then the ST might want to step in and let them know that they're not going to succeed at Task A until they've done some more ground work to prep for it.

So, I think the appeal of the game was:
1 - Modern Setting, which makes it feel very different from Arx and there aren't that many other modern games out there. The ones that have launched in the past year tend to be focused on horror themes, which is very niche, and then narrow that niche even more, with the exception of Calavaras which seems (from an outsiders perspective) to have a very broad theme with a sandboxy feel.
2 - Fantasy elements, even if Magic isn't a big thing now, it will be.
3 - A clear narrative arc, which made it easy for players to imagine characters for this world. More games need narrative arcs!
4 - Non-fiddly game play/theme. Yes, Arx is the big player out there right now, and it has a ton of meat in the mechanics department for people to dig into, but I think a lot of people were waiting for something more streamlined. Similar to WoD: Tons of meat themewise on those bones, but do players really want to dig through hard to read books just so they don't look like a clueless idiot in game?

To sum up, Spirit Lake has broad appeal without seeming flat at a time when people are looking for games with broad appeal. It also launched at a time when there were few similar alternatives, and nothing clearly on the horizon.

Obviously, I don't think it's a lost cause. I want a game where political play is active and players can be in conflict with each other. To that end, this is where my thoughts are:

1. An open and transparent OOC atmosphere, where character motivations are clear and clearly separated from players, and where players are nudged towards seeing disagreement as healthy.
2. Make sure that conflict is driven by character motivations and setting and that character driven conflicts are reinforced.
3. Providing disincentives to what is normally seen as winning. (ex. Your faction is in charge! Yay! But now, any time you try to do something shady, there's an increased chance the IC newspaper is going to find out about it and splash it all over the front page)
4. Providing incentives for disagreements, rivalries, and what is typically seen as loss.
5. Create a dynamic environment where characters can expect to go through both high and low points as a natural part of playing the game.
6. Proactive staffing that is regularly checking the pulse of the player base, and stepping in on potential OOC conflicts before they become issues and encouraging frustrated players.
7. Clearly defining actions you do not want to see and actions you do want to see and rewarding/clamping down on those actions as necessary.
8. Since players are going to talk OOC, encourage the talking and plotting to happen on game where players can be nudged in a healthy direction if possible.

@silverfox said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Arkandel

It's really common for every woman to be wished Happy Mother's Day.

Here's one bullshit example: https://www.popsugar.com/family/Why-You-Should-Celebrate-All-Women-Mother-Day-44733416

We can respect women and everything we do.

It doesn't need to be on Mother's day.

I especially hate the 'we're all mothers in some way.'

You know what? I'm not going to have kids and I'm OK with that. My value and worth are not determined by how much or how little of a 'mother' I am. Regardless of my ability or choice to have children, I have worth because I am. You do not need to bend over backwards to put a label on me to provide me that worth. My value exists without it.

When you get excited about an idea for your character, and others get excited about it, too.

Not RL, but...

I found a newbie on a MU and he is a good newbie. Despite playing on his first MU ever, he has great poses, has a good grasp of the system, reads files and the wiki, and has been great about checking in about RP boundaries and the like.

I want to hug him and squeeze him and name him George (and tie him to the mux so that he doesn't leave the hobby).

@insomniac7809 said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I just don't really buy the whole "community will regulate bigoted shit-flinging" deal, especially on the intertubes.

That works as long as the community has a strong core of non-shitbags who are, for whatever reason, dedicated to sticking out and shouting down shitbaggery. As opposed to non-shitbags just picking up sticks and going somewhere with a less unpleasant shitbag/non- ratio, which itself skews the ratio shitbag-wise, making it less appealing to non-shitbags, and on and on and now you have 4chan.

If people have not listened to the Reply All Incel episode, now's probably a pretty good time to do it. Because it illustrates this point pretty well.

@templari said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I'm going to be as short as possible in my response that I will probably be forced to regret.

I feel that it has been made abundantly clear on this forum, unless one is left leaning in nature, they should keep their mouths shut. Regardless of topic. If you try to speak otherwise, the dogpile will come.That if you are a moderate, or right leaning, you're simply not welcome here.

That. Is exactly how this place has made me feel.

I'm a conservative. I speak on conservative issues in the appropriate spaces on this forum pretty often. I'm not dogpiled on or run out. There's a reason that I have a different experience than other conservatives.

That being said, dogpiling does happen on this forum, a lot. And I am sure there are people who keep thoughts and opinions to themselves not because saying them is inappropriate, but because they don't feel like dealing with a shitstorm if it blows up in their face.

There are also the people who intentionally try to start a shitstorm or round up people to start a dogpile and those behaviors are pretty worrisome to me.

I'm going to add to this:

Read. Read good literature from a variety of sources and authors. Read good logs. Let how someone who knows the craft well, seep into you. @Coin brought up Hemingway and his style does work well in a MU setting. The more you read, the more good writing will seep in and you will get better.

Additionally, when you're enjoying a scene, pay attention to how your partner is posing and try to learn from the experience.

So, I feel as if this is where I preach the 'We Need Better Tools' sermon again.

Yes, culture has changed, and to accommodate that changing culture we need a better way of connecting players. I'll be honest, I love Ares. I love what it is doing so much. I thought I'd be salty about the move away from grids and to scenes, but I really, really like RPing from my browser. The only struggle I have? I have NO CLUE how to find RP on that system.

The only tool provided to players to find people willing to RP is the RP Requests channel. This is a struggle for me because I generally log in for the evening slightly before every one else (about 30 minutes or so). So my typical experience on Ares is I connect and get situated, then I ask on the RP Requests channel if anyone is down for a meet. Because there's not a lot of people on yet, I don't get much of a response. I then have a dilemma. If there is a specific person I know I need/want RP with, I can page them directly. If not, I can either wait until someone else asks for RP (typically when it's too late for me to reasonably start a scene) or ask for RP every 5 minutes on channel, risking sounding like an overexcited dog.

Twenty years ago, when games were more grid oriented, I typically used +where as my find-rp tool. With a single command and quick scan of my screen I could typically tell:

1. Who was already in a scene and whether that was a scene I could join.
2. Who was not in a scene but was open to being approached by pretty much everyone, plus what that scene might be about.
3. Who was on, but was being a bit more exclusive in who they were going to RP with.
4. Who was on, but was just on for boards, paging, and chat.

+Where was a bad tool for that purpose, but over decades of building up MU culture around how to signal for RP, it worked reasonably well for a long time.

We need a tool that provides that information to characters so that people wanting to RP with each other can do so. The +wantrp command on some games starts to get there, but it doesn't convey a sense of what a scene may be about. In the past, I've proposed a simple change to the +wantrp command that would add a list of suggestions. So something like:

• +wantrp on=My character totally just got beat up and has plot info I totes wanna pass on!!!! (plus some healing RP, plz)
• +wantrp on=Looking to meet criminal-types and get my char involved in that sphere.
• +wantrp on=Setting up at the Cafe for random meets and maybe a philosophical convo on the role of God in magic.

That with +scenes could give players looking for RP a pretty good start.

You could also provide a tool where players flag themselves available for certain scenes or types of RP. The point being: Yes, finding RP is hard. Yes, it will always be hard, but right now its harder than it has to be, and we should be looking on how to remove some of that friction.

I've always been of the opinion that while people do try to game the system, the benefits that new players get from being pulled into RP and meeting a wide variety of people off the bat outweigh any potential 'cheating', but that's a decision game creator's will have to weigh for themselves.

Went into my evaluation this morning with a stack of papers, research, and proof to justify asking for a 15% raise. Never had to use it - Boss offered 15% out of the gate. Obviously we both agreed I was underpaid.

@Wizz said in High Fantasy:

I'd kinda like to see a MU* that is run more like a public OTT. Players can have bits that multiple characters are attached to and these characters are part of limited campaigns (as in, will end, characters get sent to that giant tavern in the sky) with scheduled scenes. "Downtime" rp is an option, but not incentivized or rewarded in any way - no weekly XP, no cookies or votes or whatever.

I mean...I'm not gonna do it but. XD

The thing is, though, I play on MUs because I like exploring characters and relationships. That is a type of RP that is done better on MUs than any other format, and your proposal basically says that's not real RP. If I want campaigns and constant action, I'll get together with my friends and do TT.