@Thenomain said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
http://musoapbox.net/topic/1062/better-places-code/
Now You Know
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I saw, but I didn't get a chance to weigh in the past few pages with my broad thoughts on the topic as a whole. Also, I have little to contribute to that thread, as I think places code is just dandy as is.
@Kestrel said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
@Groth, @faraday, those mentioning place code etc.: Wasn't it said above that these things aren't really used? Because if so that doesn't seem really relevant. I haven't seen them on the MUSH I'm playing, nor a follow command. They could be obscure, I could just be oblivious, idk.
Follow code is on The 100. "Follow <player>" Places code is not from what I have seen.
There has been so much activity on here since I last posted, that I can't quote and respond to every single piece. Instead, I am going to give you a broad summary of my thinking on this.
Places code is awesome, every MU* should have it, and every player should use it. Every MU* I have played for longer than six months has used this code and the playerbase has used it extensively. I am surprised to read that there are playerbases that do not use it. Frankly, I am to the point that I can't live without it. It is essential for managing those big scenes and when 8 people show up because you're in a public with 4 other people.
OOC Bob says: "Hello! Our table is full, so we won't be able to invite you over." I am OK with someone telling me that when I enter a public. I love being background noise for a scene. I suggested that NPCs be added to Firan's roster so people could grab one for an evening and play a minstrel in a bar or a demagogue screaming in the streets. Background shit is great for creating atmosphere, and having someone who is fine alting background noise in one window while doing some RP with their main in another is freaking fantastic. More people should do this.
@Thenomain said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
Oh, then yes. I don't read "ask before joining a scene" to be the same as "the room belongs to those in it", but I'd agree that those people who want ownership of a room should be smacked. Anyone who enters an existing scene and ignores the situation also need smacked. While there's no call for telling someone to scram from a room, I'd say that first come first scene-set too.
I think we're agreeing.
We are, indeed, on both.
@Thenomain said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
A single room can have multiple scenes in it, and it happens all the time. They are interlinked by proximity, but nobody is throwing you out of a room by saying they're not willing to include you in their interactions. There's no reason to be a jerk because you feel slighted. There's certainly no reason to feel slighted.
I am referring to people who have told me before "No, you can't be in here at all," when they are RPing in a public room. It's incredibly rare, but it has happened.
@faraday said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
- Ask before joining a scene in progress.
This is the most asinine rule I come across in this hobby, particularly if there are private rooms to use. I am fine with people saying "We're on a dinner date, so, no, you can't sit at our table," but to deny my character being allowed in the room at all? No, I'm going to pose my character striding over to your character's table and pouring the glass on wine on your head. Take it to a private room if you want to control who can join the scene.
@Kestrel said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
@faraday said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
- Ask before posing logs containing sensitive/private IC information.
What constitutes sensitive/private IC information on a MUSH other than TS? I could be misreading between the lines, but based on various communications and the one instance where I asked someone, 'Can I post this?' I felt like I was met with this weird implication that one should always have nothing to hide, and that if you aren't entirely open about your character's motives/secrets, you're being kinda sketchy.
It depends on the MU*. On the 100, they aren't really any OOC secrets. There are plenty of IC secrets, but the players know most of them. On other MU*s, Firan or Kushiel's Debut for example, IC secrets tend to be OOC secrets too, as the environments are much more antagonistic.
@Cobaltasaurus said in Tips on Güd TS:
I want to be a pretty princess. Flakes can't be pretty princesses.
Most pretty princess characters fall under the special snow flake category, so some flakes are pretty princess.
@GirlCalledBlu I honestly think that will greatly help trim the complaints of cliquishness. I am in your second list of people who have impacted the game through interpersonal relationships, but that's not the list I have been shooting for. Every time I get around to trying to get myself involved in a storyline, it's already been decided and things are moving on. Giving more time for things to play out and more people to get a scene or two in should help make it feel less like a group of six or seven people are running the show.
I will say that I have found it a little difficult to get involved, as things seem to be a bit behind-closed-doors. Also things move incredibly fast. If you're away from the server for a week, you will be horribly behind. This time last week, we had only just discovered and been attacked by the Grounders. In the intervening time, we have rescued those captured in the first battle, captured our own Grounders, interrogated said Grounders, released said Grounders, and are now entering into negotiations with a Grounder chief. You could have easily dragged that out over two or even three weeks. There is no rush. The server doesn't have a bomb strapped to it that's going to blow if you drop below 55 mph.
Random comment: I feel that MU*s should really pull more from LARP mechanics than tabletop mechanics, simply because many LARPS have large groups of players playing at one time and have mechanics better designed for social RP.
I like this idea. It would help maintain consistency with people joining a scene if they could see how crowded a location is without needing a set. Sometimes people forget that info in their set.
What I would like to see in a MU* is a combination of all three. The main source of xp would be time based. If your character is X years and Y months old, they have Z amount of xp to spend at character creation. Every IC month after that earns a proportional amount of xp, so that every 40 year old will have the same amount of xp no matter if they hit the grid at 20 or 39. This helps alleviate the 20 year old who can out-politic Machiavelli while going toe-to-toe with Brock Lesner.
On top of that I would have a karma system which takes into account staff gifts and fellow player votes. For the player votes the +recc review system Thenomain summarized sounds good. Players would be able to trade in 20 karma for 1 xp for a character that they have on the grid. If the player had a character recently die, then they can exchange at a rate of 10 karma for 1 xp with one new character. Karma could also be used for other minor benefits. This lets a person's RP earn them benefits without moving them too far off the track of age-based xp.
The latter for me. I play on a game because I like the theme and mechanics. A character is a means to an end; though, I still want to be interested in the character I'm playing. Then again, my journey to MUSHes may be atypical. I came from Paradox style games to online versions of said games that had light forum RP to MUSHes, so I'm more of a Gamist than a Narrativist to use antiquated Threefold Model terminology.
@Bennie I had a small write up for a similar game idea. I ripped off Cowboy Bebop and the movie version of Jules Vernes' Time Machine with the moon having blown up, raining destruction on human civilization. I didn't go back to 10,000 BC. I shot for more of a bronze age, Conan feel. One tribe was animistic, one was scholarly, one was religious nutjobs, etc. It allowed for layers to come and go. New players are characters that just came in from the wilderness. Players leaving are characters heading out into the wilderness. Just add some communal challenges every month or two to keep things from getting too slice of life-ish - food shortage, wolf pack nearby is attacking, raiders have been spotted, water shortage, etc. Let the players figure out how things will run politically so there is some internal drama as well.
Another idea I would like to see is Space Rome. Feudal lords and ladies in space has been, so lets freshen it up with Rome instead. The setting would be another star system than our current one after humanity had a diaspora throughout space (either generation ships or humanity's space empire collapsed and we lost a bunch of our tech). Space Rome has recently discovered (rediscovered) interstellar travel and is pushing out to other stars, finding other human colonies to interact with. I could see Space Rome having already united all of the star system they are in from the get-go or start with other planets in the star system still independent.
The benefits of this system is the Senate which allows for more players to be involved in decision making, as well as the idea of collegiality that the original Rome had which had multiple people sharing the same position (think the two consuls who had the power to veto the decisions of each other). If one of the consuls suddenly disappears due to RL, you still have another around to get things done. In addition, unlike Space Feudalism where Duke Atreides disappearing results in things hitting a standstill until an heir can be found, Space Rome shrugs its shoulders when Quaestor Atreides disappears and simply elects a replacement.
Let the players drive the storyline and staff just has to mix in the occasional crisis - Space Carthage, led by Space Hannibal, has decided to invade the system; a Space Kraken has entered the system and is attacking ships; Space Pompeii has some seriously bad tectonic activity going on, figure out how to stop it/evacuate the citizens.
I'm on the non-consent side of this discussion. I'm a fan of old-school D&D and one of the key pieces of understanding the mindset of early D&D can be found in this blog post by a gentleman who played D&D with one of the first players - http://blogofholding.com/?p=3889 The takeaway from that post that is relevant to this discussion is the paragraph concerning The Seven Geases: “The story that D&D tells,” said Mike, “is the story of the world. Heroes aren’t invincible.” Now old-school D&D has carbon copy characters, because death is so common; however, I think the same mindset still applies to MUs. A MU is the story of whatever world it is focused on. You can be a part of it - a significant part of it - but in the end it is not your character's story. Unless you're playing on a freeform server, specifically designed for that sort of thing. In that case, have at it.
I would love to see/run a Space Feudalism/Rome game with Aurora 4X being used to adjudicate the travel and battles of fleets. It would be an enormous time sink for whoever has to SpaceMaster it, though. Also, the economic side of Aurora 4X isn't as developed as I would like for a MU*.
My three solutions to "Space Nobles need some reason to be seriously important militarily" for when I need feudalism in space:
The Birthright model, stolen from the Birthright D&D setting. The nobles are the strongest psychics, which is a genetic quality, so bloodline is important. Around each other, they are normal, but a regular human is a combination of an open book and a car. They can read every thought and control every action if they want.
The nobles are the .01% and they own everything. This is basically megacorporations in space, except with a small pool of stockholders. They started using noble titles to satisfy their enormous egos.
Democracy failed. It seems to be doing such a bang-up job in the real world already, so it's not too hard to imagine a group of elites deciding that the ignorant masses can't be trusted to wipe their own backsides let alone control civilization, especially if the current civilization developed from the remants of an apocalyptic war waged between democratic societies.
Yes, please. I am a big fan of Conan-style settings. Most of my tabletop DnD campaigns are in similar settings, because it;s the best setting for murderhobo-ing.
@Misadventure said:
Hopefully people will try out bad situations and failed Virtue checks and all that. Striving against fate and ones worse side makes for great stories.
Pendragon is one of the few TT games that is like Dwarf Fortress. Losing is fun!
When I logged on, they told me that female knights are allowed.
Which edition of Pendragon? Are you going to follow the official Pendragon campaign closely or are you creating your own campaign? Finally, are you going to allow female knights or are you going to stick heavily to theme and make them unique/nonexistent?
Pendragon is one of my favorite thematic systems, and I have been curious to play a MU* based on it.