Posts made by Pyrephox

@skew said:

@Ganymede said:

No one ever likes my ideas.

That's true.

@tragedyjones & @Pyrephox: I think I might set a goal for 18 months out to get a C:tL game going. Depending, of course, on how long BITN lasts. I don't think the story needs to go more than 18 months, in truth.

sadface You hurt my heart.

Not about the Changeling game - that would be fantastic. But that a mortals game would have an expiration date before it even opens. I can see WHY, and have even said myself that more games need to be willing to let things change and end as appropriate to the game, but still. SADFACE.

@Ganymede said:

@tragedyjones said:

Guys someone make a ctl game so I can maybe try it for once.

No one ever likes my ideas for this kind of game.

Right there with you - although what I want is a strongly urban-focused dark fantasy game of Lost desperately seeking allies against ever-present threats of being hunted (and, often, trying to prevent other humans from going through the traumatic events they have), having to balance their need to connect with mortals and the mortal world against the danger such connections can provide - I don't mind the people who want to play pretty fantasy princesses, or insane paranoiacs who are incapable of interacting with mortals for more than a moment or two, but it's not where I get the most enjoyment.

Although I do find myself wanting to see the Huntsman and Pledge rules for this version - if the former are as interesting as I think they might be, and the latter are as streamlined as some of the rest of the new rules, I may be back in true love with the game. I think I'd want to give people Beats for doing things that flag them for the Huntsmen (maybe have a Huntsmen channel for staff that PCs could post to when they do - when you get above a certain threshold (or if a staff member is on who wants to) then the Huntsmen come for you, wherever you are and whatever you happen to be doing at the time). No auto-XP, obviously - CoD rules provide more than enough ways to get XP, particularly for Lost, who should be gaining and resolving negative conditions on a regular basis. Much less focus on politics and helpful hobs in the Hedge, more on the nasty things in the world that want to make people and Lost into their prey, and that /come looking for you/.

@Coin said:

@Pyrephox said:

Man, I love most of that. I love having Lost use Touchstones, the universal contracts, the changes to Wyrd. I'm not thrilled by the changes to glamour harvesting, but honestly, it was needed - as it was, Lost received their power fuel pretty much at no moral cost, which isn't really in tune with the WoD's overarching theme. One thing where they have, I think, missed a major opportunity, though, is in the nature/demeanor analogue. It looks like they're using the tired old Vampire one. With Lost, they REALLY should be letting people pick fairy tale archetypes. My Mask is the Princess, but my Mien is the Grand Vizier, that sort of thing.

Or at least have Mask be a dull human-type archetype and Mien be something fairy-tale ish.

And, while I'm critiquing, use different words. "Mask" and "Mien" ALREADY MEAN SOMETHING within the game mechanics - don't reuse the words to mean something else. That's just asking for trouble.

Man, I love most of that. I love having Lost use Touchstones, the universal contracts, the changes to Wyrd. I'm not thrilled by the changes to glamour harvesting, but honestly, it was needed - as it was, Lost received their power fuel pretty much at no moral cost, which isn't really in tune with the WoD's overarching theme. One thing where they have, I think, missed a major opportunity, though, is in the nature/demeanor analogue. It looks like they're using the tired old Vampire one. With Lost, they REALLY should be letting people pick fairy tale archetypes. My Mask is the Princess, but my Mien is the Grand Vizier, that sort of thing.

@tragedyjones said:

@Bobotron Digging is just a pain in the ass to most folks, myself included.

Yeah. It's not that it's hard - even someone who is the complete opposite of a coder like myself can do it. It's just tedious as all hell.

I could dig that! I think you're right about burnout, and that it'd be really nice to have some definitive conclusions to arcs. You could also be a lot more daring and, well, horror-oriented, if people knew they weren't building characters for the long term.

@Arkandel I think we disagree that it would be a "fun thing". I, for one, am really very excited for a mortals game. Where mortals are the focus. I don't think adding PC or former PC monsters is going to be fun. And it takes away from some of the fun things that I was looking forward to - namely a sense of mystery in the WoD, and the idea that more exists than Uratha and Kindred and whatever. Some really great, creative things about the setting and antagonists have been leaked. Why water that down with pale and uninteresting shadows of people's past PCs? What does that add to the game that wouldn't be better served by creating something new to explore?

Especially when it is inevitably going to lead to tantrums because either their NPC totally would have seen that coming and prepared for that and what do you mean he's going to be KILLED or their monster NPC had the best TS with this hot hunter guy, and now she's going to be reformed and hang around with the mortals as their buddy, and no, of course her sex buddy isn't going to kill her, instead he and his gang are all going to protect her and she's just the best thing ever and how dare you ruin RP by saying that can't happen.

@Arkandel said:

@Pyrephox I think most people who run something like this would do it to have fun. If not, that's what @Tragedyjones is for, let him deal with the drama while we play his game.

Yessss, because "you're playing my character wrong" drama is definitely going to be confined to staff, and not result in petulant meltdowns on public channels and page drama. Because WoD players NEVER have petulant meltdowns and page drama over things that should be fun and games.

My worry is that people who are enthused about "Yay, my old and beloved PC is tearing some mortal shit up," are going to be considerably less enthused that, "Oh, wait, my old and beloved PC is being staked, beheaded and buried under holy ground." Or that people's "NPCs" are going to be stealth ways of making monster PCs on a mortals game.

Consider what ACTUALLY needs to be done in a real-time scene, and what can be pre-loaded or distributed in other ways. Instead of having to wait for people to announce each point of business and then wait for people to react and discuss it, instead, give those things out in advance, then divide the player base, as you mentioned, into places or rooms to discuss/react/counter to each point. If it's a factional game, then let people divide meaningfully by faction to interact, then designate one or a few people to carry the faction's consensus to the floor (along with a dissenting opinion, if it's thematic, or someone just wants to buck the consensus).

@Cobaltasaurus At least I got the state right? >_>

Blood and Citrus was so fun for a bit. I liked Miami as a setting.

@Groth Same here. I'd much rather see us focus on encouraging players to treat each other with respect, rather than spend time judging the kinds of scenes they like to play, so long as they play them with people who have informed consent and are also enjoying them.

@Cobaltasaurus said:

@Pyrephox said:

@Cobaltasaurus said:

@Pyrephox said:

@Saulot said:

Very much distinguished. I enjoyed Solomon on Darkwater.

Yay! I hardly ever reuse characters, but I wish I could play him again, just because of the short amount of time I had to play him.

Quiet. Quiet. Quiet. Quiet.

O.O

Hee. That one doesn't lay at your feet. I got Real Lifed before the game closed!

And thank you, @Lisse24 - who were you?

No that was a: "Quiet, don't tempt me to open it again."

But. But. That would be AMAZING.

@Lithium http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/wisconsin-girl-stabbed/

Oh, no! SLENDER MAN IS THE CAUSE OF MURDER! Clearly, all horror stories are evil and turn innocent children into crazed killers, and if you like horror, you are aiding and abetting murder!

@Apos said:

Uh, the difference is that @Sovereign's victims were really, really, really not fucking okay with what he was doing. What you are talking about is consensual, and both people are very much okay with it.

Doesn't matter. @Lithium is just trying to get people to feel bad that they're being associated with someone who is awful, and hopefully create that association in the minds of the "audience" as well. Best thing to do is just ignore the attempt. Local community equivalent of Godwinning.

@Lithium You assume I haven't!

Okay, actually, I haven't. Fair cop. NPCing that many people at once can get kind of exhausting, especially making each one unique and arousing, despite the fact that they're largely doing the same mechanical thing. Although I suppose people who are into those sorts of gangbangs would expand various erogenous zones. Hmm. No, wait, I think I could do it. It'd require some ceiling ties, and I tend to lose track of limbs even when there are only two people involved, but it's a challenge I could rise to. Or maybe it'd be more fun not to involve bondage, and instead 'catch and release', with the victim periodically let loose to try and run, while the rest of the guys hunt him down, pounce on him, and have another go. That would at least give the victim player something fun to do other than moan and writhe and narrate the tightness of various orifices. Ideally, the victim would be a fine, strapping man, a swimmer-type, not a football player, and the perpetrators a range of body types and endowments, just to keep things a bit varied and interesting. The only problem with that many men is that some of them would probably have to be pretty hairy to keep the variety going, and I'm not big into bears. Oh well.

So, see, it wouldn't bother me. It's not my thing, but I've been reading fanfiction since I was in high school, and that was a long, long time ago. Gangs of guys raping guys for the sexual titillation of the ladies reading? That's /Tuesday/, man.

The issues I have with this kind of moral panic have nothing to do with thinking the abuse of women is awesome. Actually, quite the opposite. The issues I have are:

1. It reduces women to passive recipients of information, who then have no choice but to act out whatever unhealthy influences they're exposed to - which, as a woman, I find insulting and infantilizing.

2. It's just another way to take the responsibility for abuse from where it belongs (the abuser) and put it back on the abused (whether they're a man or a woman). The ONLY person responsible for abuse is the person committing the abuse. When we say, "Oh, this kind of crap encourages women to enter into/stay in abusive relationships," it's just another way of saying, "Oh, she could leave if she wanted to/knew enough to/was strong enough." Anything that takes the responsibility away from the abuser, and puts it on the abused, is bad. The reasons abused people stay in abusive relationships have nothing to do with the fiction they consume, and it's actively harmful to efforts at helping them escape those relationships and reduce the acceptability of abusing one's partner to imply that it does.

3. It's another way to control women's sexuality, by shaming them for having "unacceptable" sexual fantasies. Oh, no, you're not just indulging in something you find hot, you're /reinforcing the patriarchy/. It's the toxic underside of "the personal is political", and I view it the same way I view people shaming women for wanting to be stay-at-home mothers.

4. Generally, it's more about looking at an acceptable target to sneer at "girly" things (see also, the disdain for romances), while giving /just as stupid/ "guy" things a free pass. Because everyone loves to sneer at women, especially other women, and if they can sneer at them "for their own good", even better.

@Lithium Murder also happens in real life. And theft. And assault. Does it offend you that people play characters who kill people and steal stuff? Is "Ocean's Eleven" creating a new generation of roguishly handsome thieves who would have been upstanding citizens if not for that dirty, dirty fictional depiction of glamorous criminality?

@Lithium It's not empowering anything. It's a sexual fantasy. It's not realistic, it's not meant to be realistic, and it wouldn't be fun if it were realistic. It doesn't hit your buttons? That's fine. It doesn't hit my buttons either, although mostly because it's not terribly well-written and I don't find the characters all that interesting. But recognize that the millions and millions of readers are not willpowerless dupes who will, zombie-like, parrot anything that they read in fiction. Turns out, I can play D&D without having an overwhelming urge to break into people's houses, kill them, and take their stuff. Shocking, I know. But neither Harlequins nor Fifty Shades of Grey are corrupting the women of the world. Neither is all the naughty fanfiction out there, much of which makes Fifty Shades look downright utopian. People like porn. People like dirty, boundary-crossing porn not DESPITE its boundary-crossing, but BECAUSE of it. Because it's something they can't do, wouldn't do in real life, and that makes it forbidden and tantalizing. It's a basic and very, very common psychological impulse, and all the handwringing in the world won't change that.

I find that most of that handwringing is a lot more about infantilizing women and scoring easy shots off of fairly silly stories that no one really wants to defend than it is about making a change in the world, anyway. Come back when you've gone to Super Bowl parties this weekend to tell the fans how football depicts and endorses unhealthy violent attitudes and encourages vulnerable young men into dangerous actions and predatory relationships with older men who largely plan to use them for profit then throw them away when they become too injured.

To answer your last question - neither. They're both good stories, if you're into that sort of thing. Whichever one you're into more will probably be the one you like best. And that's okay.

@Lisse24 said:

@Pyrephox said:

Hee. That one doesn't lay at your feet. I got Real Lifed before the game closed!

And thank you, @Lisse24 - who were you?

Man, you're asking me to remember character names? Bah. But, I believe you knew me as Kara

I know, right? KARA! Man, you were awesome. I always wanted to have more scenes with you, and find some trouble to get into.