Posts made by Pyrephox

Regarding staff and plot-first stuff:

I've been wondering if it wouldn't be better to have ST staff on time-limited appointments. For example, bringing people on for, say, three months at a time, specifically to run a plot or plots that will be wrapped up at that point. This works best, I'd suspect, in a setting that's open to having changes and variations in theme over time, and a game that's okay with some episodic things. But a) it would let STs have a discrete set of expectations to fulfill, and (b) the ability to exit stage left at the end so that they can concentrate on playing, avoid burnout, etc. It would also help /keep the game moving/, rather than risk the stagnation that you get with a core of burned-out ST staff. And you might find more people willing to sign on to be STs for a short term commitment rather than "until we get tired of you, or you learn to hate the game and avoid logging in". If it were me, I'd also want to put in a strict no-immediate-second-term rule. You MUST take at least one term off before reapplying, to keep a small number of perspectives from dominating, and as an anti-poop-socking measure.

@Bobotron Ah ha! That would make more sense, yes. Also, @tragedyjones, thanks for the clarification.

@tragedyjones Hm. A couple of questions about this.

First, am I reading it right that everyone will start out with a 1 Int, 1 Wits, 1 Res, 1 Str, 1 Dex...etc? If so, does that include skills? If so, do you have a 1 in every skill, or a 1 in SOME skills? So, essentially, your starting dice pools will range from 3 (with a spec) to 0 (assuming no skill in a particular endeavor)? With, presumably, 2 points of Willpower to boost rolls that you really, really want to hope to make.

If the above reading is close to right, based on what you've said previously, one can assume that plots are going to be mid-to-high lethality? So, anytime one participates in a plot, chances are good they're going to lose their character and start back at Wuss Von Wiener. However, if one does NOT participate in plots, one's character will steadily grow more powerful with minimal risk?

Are you sure that's incentivizing the behavior you want to see in your game?

I think there are two issues here that are separate (but often overlapping).

One is a player who doesn't understand or agree with the theme as related by the staff. This is an OOC issue, and should be addressed OOC - first, through having a strong STATEMENT of theme. And no, "this is a Vampire game" isn't a strong statement of theme, especially if we're talking Chronicles of Darkness. The nWoD books, in general, are written broadly enough to support a wide variety of themes and settings for any particular game. For example, the first Vampire book I ever read was Smoke and Mirrors. The theme and setting described in that book is nothing like any sphere of Vamp I've ever seen on a MU*, even the ones ostensibly using Smoke and Mirrors. Nothing I read ruled it out, either, of course, but it was pretty clear if you wanted to play a bunch of vampires who said fuck covenants and Princes, didn't mind teaming up with the local Mages and even informed humans against a horrible extra-worldly threat, and were just trying to get through the century without being complete monsters, that was totally a game that was supported by what was written in the book. So - if you want people to play the game you want to run, make sure it's explicit what that IS. Second, if someone seems to be willfully ignoring that, talk with them OOC, make it clear that's not the game you're running, and if that doesn't suit them, they can find another game that will hopefully meet their needs better.

However, there's another problem that's brought into that, and that's - doing things IC which are not perfectly optimal for the IC environment. This may have absolutely nothing to do with the OOC understanding of theme - that guy who cannot have sex with someone without telling them his Super Sekret Supernatural Identity probably perfectly well understands that this is a dangerous and inadvisable IC action. /That's why it's fun./ Or meaningful for the character. "Here is information that could get me killed if it falls into the wrong hands. I will entrust it to you because that's how much I love you," is an /ancient/ trope of dramatic fiction. Likewise, "Person is entrusted with an important task/important information and fucks it up in a moment of weakness," and "character on the outside of his/her society is looked down upon and harassed until he or she proves their unique value and talents during a moment of crisis," and just about everything else.

One of the problems I tend to see isn't necessarily the 'theme-breakers', but that other players get so damned overwrought and histrionic about (what they perceive as) theme-breaking actions. Where 'theme-breaking' often is just as likely to mean 'is something I find annoying'. And I have sympathy with that, because oh god, do I find some common character concepts and actions to be really annoying. But having people OOCly treat the IC tenets of a group as Holy Writ that is always taken with utmost seriousness and punished extensively whenever they are broken is, to me, just as annoying. Especially in the WoD, where the inevitable march of hypocrisy and the slow death of ideals in favor of survival is, arguably, part of the central theme of the setting.

Not to mention the fact that the Chronicles of Darkness, at least, are pretty clear that the IC rules are MADE to be broken. They're designed so that there's lots of incentives to break them, and that Things Will Happen when they do. Because Things Happening is where the game happens.

Which isn't to say there isn't a line. There's always a line, and usually that line is the point at which other players are being intentionally or repeatedly antagonized by someone's rulebreaking IC AND their failure OOC to treat other players and other players' fun with respect. It's the line between the party rogue who is caught stealing from the PCs one time and this creates fun IC drama from which the rogue learns that his friends' patience extends only so far (or the rogue who is played by someone who has approached other players and together created an IC rivalry that expresses itself in petty thievery and bellowing revenge)...and the party rogue who pickpockets other PCs constantly and says, "I'm just playing my character!" whenever people OOC tell him to cut it out, it's not fun anymore. But that moves back towards an OOC problem that needs to be dealt with on an OOC level.

@tragedyjones said:

@Admiral said:

How exciting and fresh for a setting! Small-town game set in the Northeast? Instant classic.

Other than including over a dozen towns and being in the south, you mean.

Which is a really great idea - the dozen towns, I mean. Especially for a mortals, horror-oriented game. You don't have to fight against the "why is every horrible thing in the world happening in this ONE PLACE" thing, and it lets you really sell the corrupted nature of the WoD as a widespread thing. And, hopefully, put a rein on the players who think their characters should/could know/control everything happening in a city.

EDIT: Maryland isn't the South, though. Yankee.

@Tempest said:

I have nothing but for you both, but that is the flakiest headstaff combo possible.

Eh. Even if the game only lasts a few months before people get bored or distracted by the newest shiny, if it's a FUN few months, I'm not going to complain!

Sounds delightful! Any idea on a timeline for opening?

Sure, I would. There's nothing special about MU* except the functionality and its applicability to having a large number of characters on the game at the same time, that current alternatives don't really support, for the most part. I think, though, you'd need to be able to have multiple "rooms". One of the appealing things about MU*s, for me, is this...sense of space? Persistent virtual space, so that you can look around, see people doing things off in other rooms, and possibly join them, or start something new, and the idea that you COULD do things that would impact multiple rooms at once in the same general IC time.

@Glitch said:

It seems like a majority of the feedback in this thread as far as personal choice has gone was Hunter or M+. If you're not ready to go after that, then it seems like you or your collaborators aren't really up for that sort of game. So yeah, I'd also say just build the game you want to play.

Agreed. The important thing, I think, is that the creators are passionate and invested in the game. Whether it's niche or built for the largest common denominator, I think the thing in my experience that is MOST likely to lead to a game dying is staff losing interest. Not just in the overt "we're not doing this anymore" sort of way, but in not interacting with players or working to put things out there to do. Or getting distracted by the nearest shiny. As long as there are things to do, people will continue to do them. Maybe a single-sphere game that isn't Vampire will never get 50+ logins a night, but small and healthy is a valid design goal!

@Ganymede said:

Double-posting. Fuck you.

@Pyrephox said:

Oh, that kind of system would be easy.

I know. Don't think I haven't thought about this system either. Playing Rebuild 3 reminded me of how easily you can create a mini-system that is entertaining but simple.

The biggest thing, I think, would be trying to set it up so that it's as self-sustaining as possible. One of the things that ultimately seemed to break the RfK people was the sheer number of actions and processing them. I feel like it should be possible to automate a fair amount of that stuff, with the right code and a system that is built with automation in mind.

@Ganymede said:

Give me a Mortal game where you have to survive in a zombie apocalypse. Please. No powers or what not outside of the core GMC game.

Shouldn't be tough, right? Let's give it a shot. I'll figure out some sort of "local community development social power mini-game" to satisfy the RfK crowd's need for manipulating the Grid.

Oh, that kind of system would be easy. You can adapt the territory system, but have different stats like "Defense", "Supply", and "Infrastructure" - a power plant, for example, might have very low supply when found (because not much usable food, water, or ammo is available there, but good Defense and huge Infrastructure, because once you have someone who can get it running again - motherfucking POWER, man. And you can improve territories by finding ways to raise the attributes, and staff can "attack" specific attributes with crises like "Crop Blight!" or "Idiot Loses Local Election, Pulls Down Guard Post to Let The Zombies In". Put a cap on the attributes according to how many/what quality of civilians are willing to live there (here's where the social manipulation and politicking comes in), and you've got all the makings for a zombie-themed territory system. Add a streamlined mechanic for inter-territory trade of skills or supplies, and all the politics you want should come thundering to your door.

I lean towards the ignorance side, as well, but for a different reason - a Hunter/Mortals game shouldn't be beholden to what's just in the other splat books. I mean, sure, maybe one werewolf you hunt is a spirit cop, but maybe the next is just some poor bastard who got bitten by a wolf and can't control his changes - and never will be able to. I don't mind people having a baseline of information to work from, but if the WoD isn't throwing something crazy and unexpected at you, then it's not a proper game of occult horror.

@Misadventure said:

It isn't. What everyone appears to be talking about in terms of the experience of horror, lethality and atmosphere is very different from typical World of Darkness translated to MU* format.

So, worst case scenario, you get a MU* like every other WoD MU* out there. But there's no harm in trying for something different!

@Misadventure said:

Hunter presents a significant difficulty for day to day role play. People want it, people will do it, but instead of contrasting with the horror, it will emphasize the artificiality of all these Hunters hanging out in a coffee shop, or banging each other, or posing really hard about the cigarette they are smoking. It will have all the intimacy needed for horror and discovery of the X-Files or Supernatural shot with a cast of thirty main characters.

Realistically, how is that any different from any other World of Darkness line when translated to MU* format?

@Cobaltasaurus said:

The more votes for Hunter, the more I realize I just don't care for Hunter. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of MotW & Creeping Horror. I love X-files and I'd play on an X-files, or Supernatural style place-- but probably not one using Hunter: the Vigil. I think perhaps because Hunter: the Vigil has so many different groups that are all over the place it doesn't feel like a cohesive game. And so a Hunter: the Vigil game just doesn't ... draw me at all.

Honestly, I can agree with this. I would like Hunter even better if it didn't have the conspiracies, etc. A supernatural-mystery-and-horror themed MORTALS game, perhaps with some of the fun stuff from Hunter but without the baggage, would be even better.

But if I can't have that, I'll take Hunter. At least it's humans.

That Hunter game sounds amazing. Done right, it'd be all the creepy occult horror you could want. My vote definitely goes there.

Oh, man. You were Nathalie? Nathalie was amazing!

@Arkandel said:

@Pyrephox Of course, and I mentioned that. But read the last paragraph - what those players want affects you.

Only if I have any expectation of getting what I want. Which I don't. Because I also want a Valdemar MU*, and that ain't eeeeever going to happen.

Sometimes it IS possible to share preferences without having a Structured Action Plan in the making!

@Coin said:

@Pyrephox said:

@Arkandel said:

It sounds like a Dresden Files MUSH might be up your alley then. But the go-to themes for urban MU* are usually intended to be bleak rather than the opposite.

Dresden isn't really what I'm looking for, either. Probably because the books are tightly focused on one /amazing/ character and his collection of Colorful Sidekicks with ever-escalating power and drama, it's hard to imagine that being a fun MU* on a long term basis (and yes, I know about Dark Spires, but it never attracted me).

I'd really like to see something NEW. Not even very new. But something where the cosmology and canon isn't already established, and the setting and game can grow into unexpected directions, with actual revelations and game-changers along the way.

I'd kind of like that a lot, too.

See? I'm not alone! I've even kicked around various ideas for settings and games and how to build them from the ground up as a sustainable "organism" that still allows PCs the chance to be awesome.

@Arkandel said:

@Pyrephox : And that's fine! The only thing is, most players are looking for something they're at least vaguely familiar with either in terms of mechanics (i.e. an established RPG implementation) or theme (borrowed from books, video games, etc).

Now, in some ways that even makes sense as you know what to expect from the setting, its quality is high on average since these are properties written by professional writers instead of hobbyists and of course we as players are also fans of certain ones. But that's not something you should be concerned about since obviously you can want other things.

What is a concern is that since 'most players' go elsewhere that leaves other unique games be both small, niche and relatively not advertised through word of mouth. MSB or TMC can help but it's quite likely there are gems out there, well ran and coded little games we've just never heard of which eventually die down because their creators give up on them at some point if there are only a handful of players on at any given time.

Luckily, I was talking about what I want, and not what a Statistically Significant Majority of Potential MU* Players want.