@krmbm said in GMs and Players:
I would assume "show me the logs" staff philosophy wouldn't require a pre-banned list, since that would assume guilt without evidence.
Well, that's an assumption. Assumptions preclude actual communication, and are frequently wrong. So, it's a question you'd want to ask.
@krmbm And there are workarounds for that, too, even in an evidence-based system, but it assumes open and clear communication between the victim and the staffer in question.
In other words, start with communication. ALWAYS. Which should start with "This is my issue, this is what I would like done." Or even, if you're not thinking straight, "This is my issue, I'm not thinking straight so I don't know what to do about it." Then go from there. But there should be some detail involved.
None of this is actually difficult, but it all starts from an assumption of "we're all adults but sometimes we need help."
I've been on games where one staffer had undue influence with the headwiz, and have watched people be banned, people get their RP nixed because the one staffer wasn't getting any attention out of it, people driven off the game because the same staffer was upset about...something. No evidence was ever given. Multiple games.
But there's also one thing that's being ignored in this conversation: does the game have an 'automatically banned from this game' list? I mean, if it's the person you're referencing, I'd think he'd earn a spot on that list.
@mietze I agree. But I think I've stated elsewhere that Dev and Derp treated me with respect and kindness and listened.
@icanbeyourmuse This is where I point out that when I had an issue on @Devrex's game, I went to him and @Derp and that was the approach they took: what are your expectations, how do you want this handled?
Then they respected how I wanted it handled, and complied.
But I do agree with whomever said it: whichever approach the GMs choose to take on a game is fine, as long as expectations are set from the beginning. I have reasons for not being ok with @krmbm's approach of "dude wtf leave my friend alone" without evidence but mostly because, as I've stated, I've seen that approach used to some pretty bad effect. That's not saying it's a bad approach, that's saying it can be misused. Then again, so can any approach, if the staffers in question aren't reliable or are susceptible to manipulation.
And @Roz, in that case, why not offer up the info to the staffers of "I do not want to contact this person, could you please deliver a DNC for me?"
No matter what the situation is, there's still a need for clarity and detail for communication, rather than expecting staff to automatically go nuclear on your say-so.
@krmbm It was the phrasing, it made a lot of assumptions that seem to have come out of nowhere.
However, I will say this: I'd never dream of going to ANY staffer without some form of evidence in hand, not if I expected action. Because I'd want there to be concrete evidence from my accuser if staff came after ME.
@krmbm You're putting words in someone's mouth, when the original point is "people can misrepresent themselves or others." You're really reaching.
Having seen @Devrex and @Derp in action, what I'll say here is this: if @Sunny came to them and said "My abusive ex-husband is on the game," well, no action was actually requested there. Ok, yeah. He's a piece of shit, but that's just information being offered.
If Sunny came to them and said, "My abusive ex-husband is on the game, these are the behaviors he's already exhibiting, I'm asking for a DNC, and making sure you guys know it," that's different. Because it gives them something to work with. And they'll take action.
I mean, @mietze is right: if someone's abusive on Discord, they'll be abusive on the game, too. But you can block someone on Discord. And then they'll HAVE to be abusive on the game, there's no other outlet and then they get their shitty asses booted but good.
But being proactive about booting someone for being a reported piece of shit can backfire hugely, if you find out the person doing the reporting is actually a manipulative jerk. I've seen both scenarios, where the person reporting is the jerk and the person being reported is the jerk. (I've lived through too many games with VASpider on.) Having a plan to offer and something to back your words up is not an unreasonable wish.
(Editing to add, no, @Sunny, I promise, I'm not accusing you of anything. It was an example, that's all.)
When you get on a game and the staff exceeds your wildest expectations for being fair but protecting their players. chef's kiss
I spent an entire evening watching YouTube videos of the various ways people churn butter, from the old fashioned dash churns, to the newer crank churns, to one woman who showed three different ways, (shaking a jar of cream, using a KitchenAid, and using an electric churn.) I think my favorite was the woman with the Ninja blender.
I also ended up very happy I didn't buy that 40 dollar handcrank churn that I saw a year or two ago in Target. Apparently, it's a POS and if I ever get around to making butter, well, I have a KitchenAid.
@mietze Let yourself pass out as much as you need. It's good for your mind to just not be engaging with all the stress that's been dogging you for literal years, and it's healing. I can write you a note for permission if you need one.
@betternow This one aches. A lot. He was always my favorite Monkee. Plus. Elephant Parts.
@macha If there is the SLIGHTEST chance that your current workplace will match that offer, then don't make it. It's not good faith when you want to leave and are miserable there and they'll find a reason to fire you soon anyway for trying to force them to hold to reasonable accommodations. And then you've screwed yourself out of a job you want.
My unsolicited advice.
@ghost Emmett Otter's Jugband Christmas is fucking phenomenal. I agree with you on this.
Another link, just varied songs by people with insanely good voices. It was a fundraiser for Stephen Sondheim's 90th birthday. (Free on YouTube.)
Raul Esparza's Bobby in that version of Company is quite possibly my all time favorite Sondheim rendition of any song and that's REALLY saying something because Sondheim is my favorite theater composer. Favorite. (My favorite accolade about Lin-Manuel Miranda is that he can be as complex as Sondheim.)
There's a movie called "Camp", (another much loved movie and Anna Kendrick's first feature film) in which a bunch of theater kids go to a summer camp and are theater kids. But they do a LOT of Sondheim during that movie. Like...a LOT. And one of the best bits is Anna Kendrick taking over "Ladies Who Lunch" (also from Company!) because the lead is puking her guts up while trying to carry on.
The news of his death has me devastated, too.
@tnp OMG GRIBENES. Ahem.
My mom and grandma only ever used vegetable oil for cooking latkes and their latkes were amazing. (My dad, later, used a lot of improbable ingredients: frozen, shredded hash browns that he thawed, a handful of pancake batter, olive oil, and for some reason, his were BETTER than my mom/grandma's.)
I can only imagine the apotheosis of perfection if they'd used schmaltz. I could weep real tears.