Posts made by surreality

@wizz Those are the people that were specifically owed apologies for the behavior.

The behavior was in the public eye; the apology and any lumps I take for fucking up that hard should be as well.

I was not going to contact these people privately to discuss the matter, because many of them quite rightly would not want to speak to me because of the things I have said and done over the past couple of years, regardless of the why behind it. The only appropriate course of action was to allow them to contact me about it if they were willing to talk to me, and that meant making a list, pretty much, along with as much of a 'this is how I fucked you over, and it was fucking wrong' as could be managed without revealing personal or falsely defamatory information about them that was not in public view.

I am so glad I love the hell out of spinach, so I can more or less dodge kale.

I kinda don't know what to say, other than, uhm. Wow? I did not expect this reaction.

It is very humbling, and I hope I can do better going forward in a way that will not make the folks who have extended their understanding here regret it.

Thank you all. Wordy wench is kinda at a loss for words right about now, beyond that. Thank you.

@rucket Feel free to start one if so inclined and you don't want to wait.

@arkandel My intentions are exactly as described on the tin.

If someone else wants to make another about related issues, uh, have at, I guess? I have no say in that, and neither encourage nor discourage it.

@thenomain It is not about that, though.

No bullshit: it wouldn't matter who that person is/was re: 'I should not have behaved as I have behaved', because I still did it.

How I behaved was not OK at all, and I gotta own that, full stop, even if/when things turn again, because it isn't about who to blame in any way. The only person to be blaming here is me.

I knew better, and did not do better. Pretty much the solid definition of 'being a jackass'.

To get something out of the way, just in case there's any confusion on this point:

This is meant to address people I think I have behaved unfairly toward based on information from someone I since come to realize is a grossly unreliable narrator.

It is limited to that, and that only.

To try to extend this to anybody I may have offended over the years? Well, that would be ridiculous; not everyone I may have offended at some point in time is due to this, and to claim as much would be:

• Complete bullshit

• One of the most absurd dodges ever

• Totally unacceptable implication of another person's involvement when they were in no way involved

...so hopefully, that is clear enough that there won't be any confusion about that part.

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I am not going to repeat the 'gossip' and badmouthing I heard about these individuals in the public thread.

It is bad enough it was passed on to me, and I made assumptions about its accuracy. I am not willing to take part in even potentially spreading those accusations and suspicions about those involved.

So, if you're looking for some tell-all of the things I've heard about people over time like some kind of secret gossip trove about all and sundry coming to light, you're going to be really bored and disappointed. Sorry not sorry about that.

There's another important thing to note: I don't often actually pay much attention to this sort of thing, and was subject to a veritable flood of it for a couple of years. As a result, I am not going to remember everything that's come my way (read: may be floating around out there otherwise as well) because it went in one ear and out the other at the time.

I do actually feel awful about this specifically, because while it means it didn't necessarily impact my actions? It may have for someone else hearing the same, and I'm unable to give a heads-up about it at this time, which I would very much like to be able to do if I am able. While I was able to guess at some of the crazy claims being made based on bizarre reactions to nothing I was at all aware of hearing before, let alone doing, or comments from folks, I had no idea how extreme they were. I may have been able to do something to protect myself if I had; I was legitimately too stupid and trusting to realize I needed to protect myself from this person at all for a very long time. If there's something I can do to prevent someone being stuck in a similar position, I want to try.

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I don't think (any combination of the following applies): 'oh, jeez, I done learned my lesson and got me some lumps, pity me now! See how hard I have it? I'm upset! Being mad at me would be mean! I totally have an excuse! I was lied to! You'd do the same in my shoes! See how burned I am? LOOK AT MY SCARS! Aren't they terrible? Isn't it all so awful what happened to me? You can't be mad at me, still, knowing that! Not if you have any sort of heart at all! I'm only human and will screw up sometimes, if you're only human, too, you can't be upset or you're a hypocrite!'

That would be stupid.

That is not my call to make.

I don't get to tell (generic) you, "You don't get to be mad at me now!" about this, and I'm not even going to try that; that's a self-serving head-game. Trying to guilt-trip people into not being mad would be some epic garbage. (It is epic garbage. If you see someone throw themselves a pity party once called on bad behavior, or admitting such, whether that admission is forced or volunteered? Don't let someone exploit your empathy like that; it's another hard lesson learned here. This is a hallmark of bad actors.)

Further, I'm not going to go down the list of shit I've been through RL in the past few years in a plea for understanding or compassion on those grounds, either.

First? Everyone has their own shit just like it -- there isn't a person here who hasn't been through shit themselves. Did it spare them getting griefed? NO. It'd be a dazzling sort of entitled bullshit to think that if the person subject to bad behavior doesn't get a pass, the person engaging in the bad behavior should for any reason once it comes back around to them.

More importantly? It doesn't fucking matter or make a difference; it is not an excuse.

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If this sounds angry? It's because I am angry. Someone invested a great deal of time and effort into making me angry, and they've got their wish.

I am spectacularly fucking furious with myself for being a real asshole to some folks who never got the chance to defend themselves. In some cases, it was visible here; in others, it may have only ever been snarky thoughts in my head, but that's not somehow fine and dandy, either.

This is not a joke -- when I realized what was up, I was physically ill. Run to the bathroom and barf for twenty solid minutes kinds of ill. It hit like a hammer, rather than being a buzzing gnat in of stupid drama that wouldn't stay out of my face that the rest of this stupid shit I personally dealt with from this person is. So while this is mentioned last? That isn't because it's nothing more than an afterthought.

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As to the following, if anyone wants to discuss any specifics, please PM. (Obviously, flame whatever tickles your fancy if you feel the need, but I'm trying to keep the details of things out of public view to not further spread the shit-whispers I was hearing around.)

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#1: Scorn (and ???).

No, I should not have risen to the bait to share that quote, full stop. It doesn't matter what the 'we just want to see drama' peanut gallery says, and I should have known better than to let it get me riled into wrong action.

I said I wouldn't share it publicly, and sharing it publicly was not OK for any reason, period.

As to the other party? Don't know their name here, if they have an account at all. You didn't want this shared, either. While I do personally not think well of you for reasons entirely distinct from this situation, that doesn't make it somehow OK to subject you to crap of any kind. (Duh.)

I know well why you both have concerns about this coming back on you even if not many others understand it, and that makes it doubly NOT OK to have done. (I was amazed by how many people popped up to voice understanding of those concerns who were unwilling or felt too uncomfortable to pipe up in the thread for obvious reasons. I hope y'all can take some small comfort from that, which is why I share it here.)

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#2: Jealousy and bored.

Welp, I pulled the most dunderheaded display of hypocritical bullshit ever, guys. For all the fucking whining about 'what in the actual hell, why did no one talk to me to find out the truth here?' I... did not actually talk to Jealousy before just assuming I was being shown the whole truth, again. (I mean, jeebus, you'd think I'd learn, but... nope, didn't.)

I didn't pull my head out of my ass here fast enough to not stick my foot in my mouth, shove the other one in right next to it, and tap dance around for a bit before the lightbulb dimly started to flicker on.

I am grateful you were willing to speak with me about it after that, Jealousy. I would not have faulted you for it if you had not. This speaks volumes for your personal character, and it should be said in public view.

bored, while we have definitely had our differences, things have seemed chill for a fairly long while. As a result, it was spectacularly shitty of me to buy a line of bull about you just hating me and the other party so much that something shady went down to screw us both over. I didn't approach you to talk since I'm still not sure how cool you are with that in general, or I would have. It was seriously shitty of me to think this could have been the reason for any of this for even a few hours.

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#3: Botulism.

I should have wised up to what was going on far more quickly and page-locked both parties.

I am very bad at pretending someone doesn't exist and ignoring them when they're throwing things in my face constantly, and I need to get a lot better at that.

I am furious with myself that I allowed this circumstance to continue as long as it did in your space.

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#4: Roz, saosmash, and Kanye-Quest (and the forum at large in regard to this specific point)

Not going to repeat the shit-whisper, but it was about Roz and saosmash, specifically, about characters they play on Arx. How the matter was described as 'being handled' by Kanye-Quest was included in this.

It had a dramatic impact on my perception of all of you, and I should never have allowed that to happen. It definitely contributed to a lot of hostility on the forums that should never have existed at all.

This made things uncomfortable for a number of people in completely unacceptable ways, and it was shitty of me to do. It may not have been the start of the tension, but it certainly was lighter fluid shot into that fire that sustained it for a considerable period of time.

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#5: Mietze

Like a few others, a lot of the shit-whispers went in one ear and out the other because I knew you before it began. It didn't mean it didn't play a part in critical moments when frustration would rear its head and I'd hear a repetition.

Out of everyone, you, I knew better than to believe any of this shit about, but I still allowed it to ramp up my temper in times of conflict, and more than once, to read things in entirely the wrong way with lots of yelling and stupidity.

Out of everyone, you have been the most understanding when I was unstupid enough to apologize for shooting off my mouth along the way. That did not go unnoticed, and it matters. It should have counted for a lot more than it did, too -- a fuck of a lot more.

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#6: Cupcake

Again, the shit-whispers more or less sailed over my head, because I don't really know you or (no offense) have much of an opinion in any direction other than 'someone who is in the hobby some of my friends have an issue with but I don't see any problem with'. There were a fair share of them, though.

This is one of those cases in which I wish I remembered what was said to provide it as information, so if you suddenly found people talking crazy about one of these things, you'd know why. I do know more than enough about you to know you do not deserve to be in that position at all, and I feel like a garbage person that I'm no help there.

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#7: Cobalt

Not repeating it, full stop.

I should not have listened to it, particularly because many things touched on RL situations that are not anyone's business but yours. It doesn't matter that I didn't ask for this information; RL info is a hard line and there's no excuse for me not saying, "Stop right there," the moment it started.

There were a few things that I have come to recognize as 'tells' now that should have been obvious to me much sooner that the things that were game-related were not reasonable or accurate, either, but even if they were?

It wasn't my business, and I should have told the gossip to shut the fuck up.

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#8: The Other Party @HorrorMU

I should have been much more clear and firm with you that I was not willing to put up with the abuse I was taking, and cut ties fully the moment it came to light.

This may not have done me any good re: the abusive behavior going on, from all accounts, but it would have likely prevented needless stress for you from compounding further. (At a certain point, that is the best case scenario; I should have recognized that was it much sooner than I did, and made it happen.)

Stress is the last thing I want anyone to contend with in the place they're looking to chill out and have fun, and this situation persisting allowed it to continue.

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To all of the folks above, I am sincerely sorry.

"I trusted the wrong person" is not an excuse -- especially for me, because y'all are well-familiar with my constant stream of incidents of trusting the wrong people.

I have no excuse to have not learned better by now.

I have less than no excuse for not spotting the patterns before I did, and making better choices than the choices I made at the time.

Even not knowing better does not excuse the actions described above, and I do regret those mistakes, and the wrong-headed or mean-spirited choices I have made. They've caused stress, tension, hurt, and division that were entirely unnecessary and unacceptable.

This is on point for many reasons.

Dear giant woofs and wee lassies...

@kanye-qwest I do see the point you're getting at, but I'm more on board with faraday on this one, in that I fully support games choosing to go this route -- but I don't agree with the underlying logic that depictions of discrimination, or settings or characters that include it, are something that should universally be forbidden in the hobby, or limited only to fantasy species/imaginary religions/etc.

Essentially, if that's what someone chooses to do with their game, I will back that choice completely. (As much as we've argued about random things in the past, you know I'm still behind you on the choices you've made for Arx and know you put plenty of time and effort into thinking them through.)

I won't oppose someone making a different choice by default, however. Some? Yes, I will. It depends on the specific circumstances, though. For instance, the game that someone was pitching that encouraged a wholly unmoderated 'stream of consciousness' channel that would allow slur language and hateful 'thoughts' to be transmitted to the whole of the connected game as an expression of 'realism' and 'how people really are' was a fantasy setting and not a historical one, but that isn't a choice I can say I'd stand behind or think was a good call as it was presented to the forum. (Could someone pull this off in a way that wasn't begging for disaster, and was instead a net add to the game? Possibly! It just wasn't that way.)

@kanye-qwest said in Historical settings:

The biggest difference being, imo, playing the 'sometimes' discrimination inherent in a more real world modern theme will very clearly single out a character (and maybe a player) as a giant target because of crappy behavior

Crappy behavior on the part of the one doing the discrimination, or the target? (It could be either in some cases, see the horrible stereotype characters as an example for a target where this may be the case.)

In a historical setting, you'll see pushback on that because 'bu bu it's the norm'. It's just sticky. Best avoided.

I think the hard line 'no' described by others can handle this; it just requires enforcement. As people see the behavior is not acceptable on a game, you will see it diminish save for the problem children that are not a good fit for that game anyway, and should be shown the door.

@faraday Yep, that was the crux of the previous post. It's much more extreme in the historical period, but the combination of the 'distance' provided by the time difference removes some of the immediacy, and the more intense version of most issues in a historical setting also increases the empowerment factor for folks looking for that kind of 'overcome it' story.

Some folks won't be interested and may be completely averse to the themes on the whole either way, but I can absolutely understand why some players may be open to exploring these these themes in a historical setting and opposed to dealing with them in a modern one for those reasons.

@tinuviel I have actually seen this come up -- not in the thread, but absolutely on games, and not infrequently.

It is somewhat camouflaged by the fact that it gets classified as 'avoiding hot-button political issues' rather than 'avoiding unpleasant historical realities', but it is ultimately the very same animal in practice, and the same arguments regarding engagement with these themes apply in a modern setting:

• "It exists in the world, so it should be fair game for RP."

• "I have to deal with this issue on the daily RL, and I don't feel like dealing with it in my RP all the time."

• "Removing these things from the world today would make the world today a very different place due to the impact these conditions have on daily life." (Domino effect.)

..and so on.

@peasoupling said in Historical settings:

Generic City, 2018, is a racist, sexist, etc, setting too.

This. This right here. I wish people would not lose sight of this.

It's not because I think modern settings need to emphasize or focus on these things.

It does, however, help create the desire for settings without it, because we do deal with these issues in daily life. We're not magically enlightened or perfect, no matter what part of the world we're in (so this is not a US-centric issue alone).

Personally, I'm more comfortable dealing with it in a historical context than in a modern setting, even if the level of it is dramatically more extreme in the historical one -- and, yes, I'm talking about it from the perspective of 'discrinated against' and not 'want to discriminate against for whatever reason'. The additional level of separation (era) lessens the immediacy of it for me; it may or may not be the same for others.

In a modern setting, it's also present. It's also much closer to home for me.

Tackling this from the perspective of 'want to play a character that overcomes the even more dramatic odds of an earlier era as a part of their story' definitely has some elements of wish-fulfillment (not intended in a negative context) and can be empowering. I think the same is possible in the realm of confronting these issues in a modern day game, but the 'hits along the way' are going to hit harder because it's impossible to not know they're just as likely to happen in our current society rather that being something that is only likely to occur within the framework of the story in that way; it's much easier to get discouraged and find more discomfort than empowerment there.

@arkandel It's interesting, to be sure. I suspect it could indeed be helpful for some. I'm not sure the worst offenders are going to think it applies to them -- but let's face it, they never think any given thing applies to them anyway.

@wizz said in Midnight MUSH:

@apos said in Midnight MUSH:

Ten people having a blast is in my opinion more successful than two hundred people that are utterly miserable.

@arkandel said in Midnight MUSH:

To me longevity counts. I don't care too much for flashes in the pan kind of games; run it for a year+ without losing your players, then you're doing something right.

I really don't care about trying to quantify and capture things like a "right" amount of time to run or the "right" number of people to have.

The one caution I'd offer here is this: if there's a maximum or 'too much' point population-wise, don't be afraid to say so up front. You never know what's going to catch on, and functioning within the limits of what you can comfortably handle is going to create a better experience for all involved.

I've just got a strong urge to make it because it's a place I'd like.

This really is the core of what you need. Feed and nurture it well, and don't overlook its importance.

Too many folks I know hate their projects before they see the light of day/opening/release/etc. If things start going that way, take a break if you have to, indulge a little more in the things that inspired you to do it at all and work a little less, and so on. But keep and feed that. It's important.

There's a reason people call stuff like this 'pet projects'. Think of it like a pet that way: needs feeding and care, needs medicine sometimes, and so on.

The most interesting complementary question I can think of here to age is 'when did you become involved in the hobby', and perhaps 'have you come and gone somewhat, or have you maintained some level of involvement throughout'.

What brings someone 30 to this now, if they started to play this year, is likely different than what drew them here if they started when the were 12 (and there are a fair number of folks that describes).

@arkandel All the shiny gifs, man. They're shiny.

@lisse24 Mine did. Though I am also long since officially old, so I feel ya.

For quite some time, I trusted someone I thought was credible.

I found out the very hard way that this was not the case, and just how incredibly vile their take on various people really was.

I do not know if something is wrong with them that they do this, but I really don't care. That person is no longer my problem. I have learned my lesson: do not, under any circumstances, believe what that person has to say about anyone.

I spent a long time doing so.

That was stupid, and that was wrong. That I didn't know any better does not absolve it even a little. That I seriously feel like complete shit about it doesn't, either. I was way too willing to hear ugly things about a variety of people and believe they were true, and that is absolutely NOT OK.

I'm still traveling, so I can't really attend to this now in regard to specific people from this stupid tablet, but I damned well intend to make ammends and apologies as best I can -- not non-pologies -- to the people I may have hurt as a result, and to those who are open to hearing them.

If you think this applies to (actual) you out there, please let me know. I should be home on the 5th but will reply to PMs as I am able in between. There are people I know of already that I will be trying to reach out to when I get home.

I'm not kidding about this; I feel like shit knowing I was probably a party to other people going through the crap I recently did. I'm pretty fucking horrified by it.

@tinuviel Exactly this. It really is designed with that in mind at all times. It's why I gave up on using it for MU, or even thinking it should be, ultimately, but especially so as written, and without a fairly comprehensive explanation of the game/staff/uniform ST stance on... frankly almost every single aspect of the game.

In all seriousness, while I have shared this story in the past, it's apt to repeat, and hopefully it will further drive this point home:

Years back, I was in an oWoD online game that had a group of players who insisted that celerity applied to any action that a character could take rather than just the physical actions the creators intended, including blowing past things like willpower or blood expenditures allowed per over all turn. Well, not just no, but fuck no. So, knowing some of their folks and having a quick contact, I ask one of their developers to clarify this to end this absurdity so things can go back to the merely ridiculous, rather than the balls to the wall bullshit of things like characters slinging multiple thaumaturgy rituals and throwing in two pops of dominate with celerity in a single over all turn.

His reply, verbatim: Oh, honey. Do not play with those people.

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Yeah. That approach works just fine for tabletop. Not so much in the come-one, come-all free-for-all of chaos that is even a small MU.