I'm little late to the Wheel of Time party -- doing my first read through right now -- but I've already fallen in love with the level of detail RJ's brought to this world. I'm sure it'd make for great RP. Explored some of the ruins of Cuen and it makes me feel a bit sad to have missed out on the tales of Aes Sedai, Warders, Lords and Ladies, Maidens of the Spear...

Seeing the beginning of the Fourth Age would be great, as well as the history of the Westlands, or even a mirror-world. I'm sure this would get a lot of love, especially with that rumoured TV show coming.

@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

I mean, what happens after the Last Battle (besides clean-up)?

The freedom of the timeline would be the appeal to me, imo! Unlike the Trolloc Wars, where nobody would be Andoran, Cairhienin, etc., all the cultures would be there, people would have lived through the defeat of the Dark One, and new heroes would be stepping up to face new threats. Aviendha's vision into the future might also give a lot to work with.

@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU(SH|X):

The one thing I do like about going off the books is that... let's face it, that shit involves some heavy duty reading! Demanding that your players are knowledgeable about them can be a hefty requirement for newcomers.

Canon divergent settings can definitely be fun, but with a game in the main verse, someone who's read the series will know everything that's going on, but newcomers will have to research everything in the theme files, etc. In an alternate setting, newcomers will have to do that too, on top of all players having to read about points of divergence and the alternate history that's happened since, etc.

@wildbaboons Trying to connect, but alas, host not found -- it is a baby server after all!

Theme sounds very fun! A new city could perhaps be Taralan -- the city in the Chronicle from the Fourth Age at the end of TDR. Perhaps located on Caralain Grass, as it sounds like a corruption of that (maybe it's called Caralain now and then Taralan later in the Age?) and Hawkwing wanted to build his capital there as it's the centre of the Westlands. Sorry, gone on a worldbuilding tangent -- So excited for this game!

Woo!

Question: Will Frenglish be the official language?

To offer my own two cents on the Restricted/Limited concepts as someone who does play here:

I think it is disingenuous to compare a low-magic fantasy game to somewhere like Marvel. The focus of the game is on dynastic politics, and in a sense we're kind of unique in that way: it's not like people have to play the servants, the blacksmiths, etc. - in fact they're usually dissuaded! Most people are the 1% of Westeros, so to speak.

So, in this sense, it becomes a little contrived looking if not just the women of Bear Island (a sort of unique culture in canon) can fight, as well as the daughter of Lord Tarth, an important vassal of House Baratheon -- but if the daughters of Lord Arryn, Lord Tyrell, Lord Lannister, and so forth are all on par with great knights, it does begin to break the theme.

But it's not like most of the population are nobodies. Game policy really is to treat Tier IV, the tier of most players, as "good," and above the general cut of the population. Sansa Stark would be an IV - you can play a daughter of a great lord completely without restrictions; and in fact I did play a daughter of Lord Tyrell with no experience at all as my first character. IVs have driven RP and been really influential at court, too, though it does make sense in my mind to limit roles like the Small Council and the Great Lords of the Seven Kingdoms, like we do.

I'm basically someone who really enjoys canon compliancy. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm more to ask "what's the point" if I'm playing in a parallel universe with alternate Targaryens or where House Tully seizes the throne than living in the canon timeline and seeing the past of Westeros on a smaller scale and all the political intrigue. Not for everyone, sure, but I love it for what it is!

@arkandel Lots of possibilities, but not sure if I'd feel comfortable playing a male channeller in the Third Age if I had to go mad, or swear allegiance to the Dark In fact, think I would probably be an Aes Sedai anyway. The monastic nature of their organisation and the nuance of the Ajahs interests me more than the militaristic Asha'man, but that's just a personal preference.

I do think a Fourth Age setting would be best, though, now that all of the books are done. The legacies of the main characters would be there, but they'd mostly all be in the distant past. Plus, there'd be a lot of room for dramatic upheaval and change in the world, and as you said, male channellers will likely be a popular concept. Lots of material to work with, such as:

• Aviendha's vision of the future and the Seanchan threat. Perhaps her attempting to change the future would affect some things, but not everything -- so there's a general plot to work with, but also one that's potentially open-ended.
• Daes Dae'mar: perhaps the Cairhienin wanting to break free of Andor and scheming as to who'd be best on the throne. In Andor itself, perhaps the symbolic tradition of female-only inheritance for the royals would be contested now that saidin is cleansed.
• The role of the Asha'man in the Fourth Age, and seeing the Black Tower when it's more like a Tower instead of a farmhouse.
• Changes in the White Tower such as having female Warders, Red Ajah who secretly still oppose the Asha'man for some reason, and a larger pool of novices etc. now that women older than teenagers aren't turned away.
• How Aiel society would change after the events in the novels.

@rizbunz I might fare better in a setting along the southern border with Spanglish, or in Pennsylvania with Denglisch, but I guess I'll have to swot up on my French to bring that certain je ne sais quoi to Montreal.

Right. And the oaths are likely going to be respected if the Black Ajah is limited. Yeah, channelers being one per player is likely the best solution.

Channelers and warders are likely the flagship concepts for a WoT game, so yeah, limiting them is probably too much.

Those historical themes do sound interesting, but then again the further you back you go, the more the world becomes different. A couple hundred years after Hawkwing at least would be enough for all the cultures in the books to be in place. The After the Breaking years/Free Years are interesting, but might not be that familiar for a main setting.

On the other hand there's the issue is that the closer you get to the present, the more canon characters become important in the grand scheme of things, prophecies unfulfilled as @Arkandel said.

So that's why I'd still value a future where there's 1) male channelers, 2) a familiar world to the main setting of the books, and 3) a world open for changes on a large scale, with players having a big role in making these changes happen. But I'm never going to say no to playing a WoT game just because it's set during the Trolloc Wars.

@tempest Agree that Tar Valon should definitely be a main hub - no WoT game would really be complete without the White Tower.

Caemlyn would work pretty well for a hub, too, since there'd be the Black Tower in a timeline with Asha'man, nobles and royals for the L+L players, and also because Andor is the most "generic fantasy" of nations and easy to get into for new players. Though perhaps as a secondary hub, for sure.

A Cairhien hub would also be good if L+L players wanted a separate grid to play out complex intrigues rather than save the world or channel the One Power

I'd love to join a game like this! Good old slice of life drama in anything from Rome to the medieval period, to Regency England, to the Wild West would be an awesome setting.

Woo, another discussion about a WoT game!

Regarding setting, I am not too much of a fan of the concept of the main setting being a mirror-world. Not in an "it would disinterest me", way, it's just that depending on the points of divergence... well, it's not the same world that I read and fell in love with!

There are definitely ways to have a fun game without having to play through the Dragon Reborn stuff, though. Setting the game several centuries earlier (but definitely post-Hawkwing), would give similar nations and cultures to the game, but without big canon events looming. Easier to have a PC Amyrlin, Queen of Andor, and monarch of Cairhien, and all that. And there's a lot room for the game to go ahead without being bound by canon conflicts.

Then there is the post-book setting, which I think could be pretty nice -- with the Last Battle over, there's a whole new Age of possibilities! And with Asha'man and female Warders being a lot more viable as concepts, too. But the drawbacks would be that it could be spoileriffic for both newcomers from the Amazon show, and those who dropped off from the books halfway through. And besides, a Fourth Era game may even seem somewhat alien -- the all-female Aes Sedai is part of the series' charms, in a way.

I would definitely enjoy a game set during the books, too... but things would get messy once the big, canon changes start happening. A post-Aiel war game would work nicely though, in my opinion.

As for political stuff, two zones would work nicely (Tar Valon and Cairhien/Andor) with a largely Aes Sedai/Warder population in the former, largely non-magic in the other. I don't think domains should necessarily be completely Arxian, though.

As for rare concepts, there are gleemen, Blademasters, wolfbrothers, Ogier... all of which could be super interesting.

I would also think it makes sense to have PC Black Ajah. The scale of them is very large in the books, and some joined just for political influence rather than for the evulz. I am not sure about male channelers outside of metaplots in the case that saidin is tainted in this setting, however.

@kanye-qwest Sorry. I think I definitely could've been more articulate there, and less judgey too. Was just responding to your post because I saw a few people who looked like they didn't understand why the restriction was there.

R.E. The books, I suppose I meant that there is a certain level of value to a lot of readers about how sexism is presented and how it's something a lot of characters struggle with: so for example it's poignant that Brienne is derided for her ugliness as well as being a woman. But this is getting into literary analysis, which I know is subjective and isn't needed for discussing the game.

I completely understand why that wouldn't be everyone, though, and actually do tend to prefer the games where things are equal for everyone. Just different strokes for different folks.

@misadventure There's an influence and renown system, which is pretty cool! Deeds for good or for ill, your standing in society, court offices, etc. will affect your place on the charts.

It's mostly personal, though, so an economic system is more roleplayed out than relied upon code. Due to the canon nature of all houses, the Westerlings and Corbrays will slowly get more impoverished; the Freys will increasingly get wealthier.

You can also buy certain coded assets out of CharGen with enough XP, and there's also SP, awarded as a "player of the month" thing if you have lots of +noms, where you could e.g. buy a manse in the city as a lesser house if it makes sense. Have a peek at http://www.westeros.org/BoD/Helpfiles/Category:System::Advancement if you'd like to know more!

@surreality definitely. Sorry if I'm being a Debbie downer on what other people prefer for their own pretendy fun time. Just thought that there was an indication people didn't understand the limit/thought it was unfair and was trying to explain why the game has the policy it does. I apologise if I was wrong.

@surreality I've definitely seen people get approved for Restricted roles without ever knowing the staff before and things have worked out okay. Favouritism might be more of a concern with the probation period that exists for Limited characters, and yeah, trusted players often do get approved, but to earn that trust is usually playing often, thinking up plots, having logs, etc. And some of the most long-standing players have been Open for a decade because the concept works well for them.

I think the objection is mostly female fighters, right? If this was an Elder Scrolls game, then it'd be abhorrent to bar female players from that sort of thing, sure. But in the world that Martin's shaped, the truth of the matter is that your average Westerosi lord isn't going to educate his daughters to be on par with his sons martially. (Note that women can be good at hunting etc. like in the books, but there's a reason Catelyn was shocked to see Brienne bested Loras, right?)

Perhaps it makes better sense if you look at our PC system? Most characters, pre-gen or not, stem from pre-created family trees that give a sense of cohesiveness to family dynasties, so you don't have to retcon too much if that long-lost brother turns up which is orthodox in other games; that brother will always be on the tree. We focus on the most important houses in Westeros i.e. the Great Houses and their primary vassals, so it is kind of odd if a large number of women from those houses are warriors. If it could be spread out across different boundaries e.g. having women warriors being from a sellsword company from Tyrosh that may be more realistic... but that would beg the question anyway of why so many women warriors would be at court in King's Landing, getting involved in politics (our main focus), and would be so present in our scenes etc. which would be contrary to the feel of the books that the game tries to emulate.

I'm not sure if the system is arbitrary as someone that does play on the game, btw. The criteria for Restricteds is: "You must know theme well (have read an ASoIaF book), have MU* experience and logs to show, and be willing to lead plots. I know that's a bit more as most games just ask FCs to be willing to lead plots - and I know it may be a bit daunting to the players new to MU who join through their love of the books (I was one!) but I have a suspicion a lot of people here might fill that criteria if they did want to join. Female fighters who are more realistically average than Dacey or Brienne can join as Restricteds if they'd like and discuss with the staff they're willing to meet the Restricted criteria.

When it comes to sexism, I won't dispute that the world is sexist! And it's completely down to you if that's your taste; I know the L+L/Fantasy market in both games and novels etc. nowadays has a more egalitarian slant that's refreshing; but we are based on a strict canon within the books that depicts sexism in this world. It's usually something that's important rather than limiting though and explored through female PoVs quite tactfully and players of female characters are welcome to expand their influence working within the system - and that's without mentioning the female heirs that are completely open.

I do think that perhaps being low-magic does make the "power levels" seem unfair, where it might be better understood in a high-magic game.

For example, the Wheel of Time. Of the main characters, Rand is the Dragon Reborn and the most powerful male channeler in the world, Nynaeve is a Wilder who becomes Accepted without even having to become a Novice, Elayne is the Daughter-Heir to Andor, Perrin is a wolfbrother, Mat is so lucky due to being ta'veren that he cannot lose a single battle... etc. Now games like Cuen were definitely way before my time but from what I understand, even Aes Sedai "side characters" had a quota and there were limits on being King of Cairhien or the Amyrlin Seat right off the bat.

In this way, the same sort of logic applies to Brienne, Jon, Jaime, Bran, Melisandre, Daenerys; the first three don't possess the limited magic power that exists in the world but the same role does exist and you couldn't play them easily on the game.

Also, as far as Arianne goes: we have the option to play in Dorne right off the bat as long as you've read up to book 4. You can be a sexually experienced woman there for sure, and a female heir without any more restrictions than the men: in fact the same is true in Westeros. There's a Lady Selmy and a Lady Goodbrook you can play with the same restrictions we have for male heads, and female heirs to House Marbrand and House Chester that are fully open.

As for the fantasy-to-comic comparison: I feel that every game has a focus. In the DC or Marvel world, there are probably as many superheroes or supervillains as there are members of the prominent houses in Westeros, right?

To offer my own two cents on the Restricted/Limited concepts as someone who does play here:

I think it is disingenuous to compare a low-magic fantasy game to somewhere like Marvel. The focus of the game is on dynastic politics, and in a sense we're kind of unique in that way: it's not like people have to play the servants, the blacksmiths, etc. - in fact they're usually dissuaded! Most people are the 1% of Westeros, so to speak.

So, in this sense, it becomes a little contrived looking if not just the women of Bear Island (a sort of unique culture in canon) can fight, as well as the daughter of Lord Tarth, an important vassal of House Baratheon -- but if the daughters of Lord Arryn, Lord Tyrell, Lord Lannister, and so forth are all on par with great knights, it does begin to break the theme.

But it's not like most of the population are nobodies. Game policy really is to treat Tier IV, the tier of most players, as "good," and above the general cut of the population. Sansa Stark would be an IV - you can play a daughter of a great lord completely without restrictions; and in fact I did play a daughter of Lord Tyrell with no experience at all as my first character. IVs have driven RP and been really influential at court, too, though it does make sense in my mind to limit roles like the Small Council and the Great Lords of the Seven Kingdoms, like we do.

I'm basically someone who really enjoys canon compliancy. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'm more to ask "what's the point" if I'm playing in a parallel universe with alternate Targaryens or where House Tully seizes the throne than living in the canon timeline and seeing the past of Westeros on a smaller scale and all the political intrigue. Not for everyone, sure, but I love it for what it is!

Hey guys, don't mean to necro but this game's pretty cool. Been playing for almost two years now.

This summer's a really good time for joining the game. The original premise was the fallout of the Dornish wars and that's coming to a head again as the characters of the two zones - King's Landing and Sunspear - meet for the wedding of Daeron Targaryen and Mariah Martell.

There's also a little trip to Lemonwood in Dorne this weekend and an ongoing plot about honey thieves in King's Landing before the big trip down south - and there's been lots going on like the death of the High Septon and the naming of a new Kingsguard.

Come hop on and see if you find a character that suits you

@rizbunz I might fare better in a setting along the southern border with Spanglish, or in Pennsylvania with Denglisch, but I guess I'll have to swot up on my French to bring that certain je ne sais quoi to Montreal.