@Balerion said:
other games based on GRRM's intellectual property, provided they were authorized by GRRM to do so, of course.
Because, you know, you have to have that in order to exist. Of course.
It's like talking to a wall.
Yet, we are all painfully aware that you have in fact gone to other games (And even in this thread you have stated) and stated that they are not allowed to exist because they do not have the permission of GRRM, only you do.
Nope, never have gone to another game. It is an outright lie. Nor have we ever authorized someone to do so on our behalf. Anyone claiming otherwise would be lying.
So trying to wiggle out of it by saying 'Well it wasn't about BoD specifically' is silly, because it was in its entirety about BoD
I have no idea what you're talking about. You're not a party, I think, to any of the DMCAs we have sent over the years defending our (non-BoD) copyrighted material, whether it be character write-ups or photos.
To reiterate, we have never, ever sent cease and desist letters on GRRM's behalf (we are very well aware that that's not something in our purview, thank you very much) . We have never claimed to do so nor have we ever threatened to do so. Anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or misinformed.
@Rook I think everyone here would agree that game owners have a right to decide what they are comfortable with in regards to promotion of other games. As we've stated before, we know GRRM's feelings on the matter from statements he has made, we feel that those who disregard his feelings are disrespectful, and we have no interest in supporting, promoting, or being associated with such projects.
Actually, what you've done is interpret his statement how YOU want them to be interpreted in the way that best suits YOU and your desires. Until you can show me an actual conversation between GRRM and you personally wherein you point-blank ask the man if he wants all other non-authorized GoT games shut down and he very clearly says yes in response to that direct question... all you're doing is trying to force your spin on a statement he made that may or may not even have a context bearing on this particular situation.
TLDR; Saying 'man this bugs me/creeps me out/is annoying' is NOT the same as saying 'why are these people doing this, they need to stop right now, I never gave my permission for this'.
^ This.
Proof is called for, with your strong, adamant statements.
Just so you know I'm not unsympathetic to what you're trying to say. I certainly got bruised up a bit in the Optional Realities thread due to some poorly communicated ideas. In the end I clarified but I stuck to my prior decision there. I think that if you acknowledged that there is a personal interpretation to the position on advertising of unauthorized games that people here would at least accept that the game owners (or you) have a personal opinion which you are enforcing. Which is your right even if they don't agree with you.
That or you could do like @Miss-Demeanor suggested and provide either the direct question/answer form between a member of your staff and GRRM... or provide your authorization document if you have one. Unless you are under an NDA. It's just my helpful advice because while this thread is getting a lot of views and responses it might not be advertising your game in a beneficial way (which is your intended goal). I made the same mistake, it's an easy one to make, but continually repeating yourself is just going to crush your soul and feed spurring people in the community to question the position because nothing was answered it was only repeated. (same mistake I made in the OR ad thread)
@Miss-Demeanor said:
TLDR; Saying 'man this bugs me/creeps me out/is annoying' is NOT the same as saying 'why are these people doing this, they need to stop right now, I never gave my permission for this'.
No, it isn't the same. But what you are refusing to acknowledge is our right to not want to endorse something that a friend of ours is uncomfortable with. It is more than enough for us that GRRM has expressed discomfort with unauthorized use of his IP.
As to "proof", we don't make a habit of recording conversations with anyone, much less a friend. There are emails, yes, some of which we have been able to share, but it is quite clear that people will continue to interpret those as they please. As far as we are concerned, they fully support my above statement regarding GRRM's discomfort and disapproval of unauthorized games, and we feel that anyone who is a reasonable person would agree on this interpretation of his position.
Again, nothing has been said by us about shutting down any unauthorized games, what we have discussed is the fact that we disallow the promotion of such games on our website and our game. Those are two very different things which somehow are treated as one and the same here.
@Balerion said:
@Rook I think everyone here would agree that game owners have a right to decide what they are comfortable with in regards to promotion of other games. As we've stated before, we know GRRM's feelings on the matter from statements he has made, we feel that those who disregard his feelings are disrespectful, and we have no interest in supporting, promoting, or being associated with such projects.
Balerion, you are starting to speak like the Pope when he says what God thinks or feels. I personally think that GRRM is too busy to give a fuck. Produce a legal document indicating this, in very least one that has been signed by GRRM and then signed by a notary public (or whatever the fuck you have in Sweden).
It doesn't seem to stop other people from creating Westerosi themed MU*s. Hell, now I want to make one just to spite you. Nonetheless, your threats aren't stopping people making games, not to mention the Crusader Kings Westeros MOD team use your character database when constructing their dynasty trees.
Is it the fear that someone else may profit from Game of Thrones crap like you and Nymeria have? I know your wife is probably triggering right now, but when you start banning IPs and calling people names, it doesn't really defend your position very well.
I don't particularly care one way or another if you don't want to endorse non-authorized GoT games on your game. What I care about is your behavior and statements towards anyone that dares to have or play on one of those games. You've taken some fairly vaguely worded statements from GRRM, some of them pretty damn old statements, and turned them into a verbal crusade against non-authorized GoT games that you're undertaking on his behalf. Without his consent, and likely without his knowledge. I'm not claiming you've attempted to shut down non-authorized games, I've never played on a GoT game or even really know anyone that has, to make that kind of statement. But your behavior and statements in this thread have been pretty clear-cut and outspoken against those games. Rather than promoting your game for its rich stories or in-depth characters, you promote it for being 'authorized'. You've based the whole of your marketing campaign for your game on that one fact. Your statements about non-authorized games have been in the same vein as slut-shaming, and that in and of itself is shameful. Insisting that your game is the only 'right' game because you have permission is pompous, arrogant, and conceited.
^This
@BigDaddyAmin said:
^This
I am upvoting your post, @BigDaddyAmin , just because one cannot double-upvote @Miss-Demeanor 's post.
@Rook I'm upvoting yours AND BigDaddyAmin's just to pile it three-deep.
+1 chain.
I'm reminded of a quote.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing- it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
@TNP said:
+1 chain.
I'm reminded of a quote.
"Never try to teach a pig to sing- it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
- Lazarus Long
In the South we have a similar saying:
"Don't teach a dog to whistle Dixie. It is impossible and it just pisses off the dog.
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig. It wastes your time and the pig likes it.
@Miss-Demeanor said:
I don't particularly care one way or another if you don't want to endorse non-authorized GoT games on your game. What I care about is your behavior and statements towards anyone that dares to have or play on one of those games. You've taken some fairly vaguely worded statements from GRRM, some of them pretty damn old statements, and turned them into a verbal crusade against non-authorized GoT games that you're undertaking on his behalf. Without his consent, and likely without his knowledge. I'm not claiming you've attempted to shut down non-authorized games, I've never played on a GoT game or even really know anyone that has, to make that kind of statement. But your behavior and statements in this thread have been pretty clear-cut and outspoken against those games. Rather than promoting your game for its rich stories or in-depth characters, you promote it for being 'authorized'. You've based the whole of your marketing campaign for your game on that one fact. Your statements about non-authorized games have been in the same vein as slut-shaming, and that in and of itself is shameful. Insisting that your game is the only 'right' game because you have permission is pompous, arrogant, and conceited.
YES. MORE. MORE.
@Game of Thrones / http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/What_is_Dead_May_Never_Die said:
"What is Dead, May Never Die"
But rises again. Harder. Stronger.
@Alzie said:
He says, as if GRRM is trolling the internet for his hate forums.
Yep. One funny bit there is that I don't troll nor mock GRRM on "Is Winter Coming," and basically just check it from time to time because and maybe post because there's a link to my game in my sig. If I comment about GRRM, I'm usually actually pretty much defending the guy, though quietly, as it's hardly the place to argue his merits.
The other funny bit is that that forum is, aside from the bits that are just boring bitching about how GRRM is a slow writer (which is annoying of him, yeah, but it's hardly news) actually more dedicated to trolling and mocking Nymeria, and complaining about what a blight upon the fandom she is. "Is Winter Coming" wouldn't exist without her.
And gosh, how cute of you, @Balerion, to be checking out what online communities I have accounts in.
Is it the fear that someone else may profit from Game of Thrones crap like you and Nymeria have? I know your wife is probably triggering right now, but when you start banning IPs and calling people names, it doesn't really defend your position very well.
