When To Stop Listening To Those Voices
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I'm in a creative crisis. I'm feeling bankrupt and spread thin and my anxiety is on the rise. I share because I know I need to take a day or two and clear my head but it's like...everything is on a deadline and I keep kicking the can down the road. After I finish this CG or after this batch of jobs or after I lock down X, Y and Z.
Meanwhile, all my creative endeavors feel like shit. ALL. This is fucked up.
Mental fatigue is a thing too. So, y'all take care of yourselves
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@Thenomain said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
On the other hand, if the analysis seems simple then it’s possibly too simple and ignoring, on purpose or through simplicity, important steps.
This anaysis is not too simple or skipping steps, though.
If your goal is "i want to stop feeling anxious and questioning whether or not the things that happen are purposeful slights", then you should definitely look into medication, therapy, etc.
If your goal is "I want to be part of x community and have the people there eager to engage with me" then the answer is just as Apos said. Put time and effort into being fun for those people to interact with. The easiest way to accomplish that is to put the focus on them: their fun, their stories, their characters, their jokes.
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Yup. Thus taking "do x" as a goal, not a solution. A step, not a criticism. I'm not saying that simple advice is bad advice, but it's just advice. Just like a whole lot of other things, how the receiver takes it is also important.
"Put more effort into it" is not the only solution to being an accepted part of a community. The, er, Gender-Neutral PHB (I'm trying to think of a better way to put that, but will probably fail) is a huge part of the community, but is not something we would want to encourage. The people who are eager to engage with them are not doing themselves any good. I've seen good games collapse because good people followed cults of personality. I've seen toxic personalities maintain a game to the detriment of its players, who happily went along with it. I will go toe-to-toe with you or Apos about this.
Another thing I will go to the wall about: "Fun" is a mug's game. "Be Fun" implies that if you're not fun then people won't like you. This is utter bullshit. I'll go as far as to say this is dangerous thinking. (Even if it wasn't intended; now that I'm on this path I'm going to say it.) "Fun" is like "pretty". Very. Subjective. Judgement. Call.
Another answer is: Find people you like and show that like them back. Showing that you're interested in people works a lot of the time. This has been mentioned before and it's solid advice. I'm not going to say it's simple, but I will say that it doesn't have to take a lot of time.
I will agree that you have to put yourself in a situation for these things to happen. Sometimes they happen by accident; revel in those moments, but most of the time when it happens it's because you were doing something.
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So, this is a step aside from the few preceding posts, and is not in reference to them. Just want to be clear about that before addressing something that's tricksy to put into words, and -- well, I hope it's not as depressing as it may initially seem. That isn't the intention here.
Whenever I start to think about these issues, and I think about them more often than I'd like, there's a quote that comes to mind.
It isn't a happy quote. It is still one of the truest things I have ever seen put into words.
It's this:
There are a few quotes, poems, songs, bits of art and similar that I come back to pondering often, for one reason or another. This is one of them. It's what I'd call a 'frequent companion' when these specific feelings emerge.
For a long time, I looked at it as commiseration. It was, at least, a reminder that I am not alone in having these feelings.
My thoughts and feelings about it have evolved considerably since, without losing the bits that were useful before.
The second realization it helped me internalize was that: this is natural, normal, and human. We don't have to have a mental disorder or illness to experience this. It's part of life for all of us. Nobody has a perfect record of victory in this regard, no matter who they are. That does not make any of us lesser in some way, and it's important to remember that. We talk a lot in this hobby about the opportunities provided by failure in the course of a story, or for a character, and we liken it to life as a nod to 'realism'. And then we promptly forget that when it comes to our own failures much of the time, because those monsters and ghosts are very, very loud, and they speak our language like little else ever will.
So we're up to: you're not alone in this, and this is part of being human; it does not make you broken, sub-par, or lesser. It's the third one that's big, and it's the third one that's -- cliche as it may sound -- the charm.
Sometimes they win.
It isn't going to be every time. Not unless you give up trying. It is so important to remember that.
Oh fucking well.
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Medication is someting I do, and it's granted me a vast improvement - 5+ years ago I would not even be broaching this topic, I've now been on medicatin for the last three years or so. About a year and a half ago I lost my preferred insurance and was no longer able to utilize my mental health team, I haven't been able to find a therapist since.
I was thinking about a quote from Cold Comfort Farm recently, "It's my energy, you see. It turns in instead of out.
I think turning it out, for me, will involve trying to feel my way into @Apos' suggestion; how to do so for most I imagine will be obvious, but I will need to take time to figure what is the right thing to be doing.
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical -
@Cupcake said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
Medication is someting I do, and it's granted me a vast improvement - 5+ years ago I would not even be broaching this topic, I've now been on medicatin for the last three years or so. About a year and a half ago I lost my preferred insurance and was no longer able to utilize my mental health team, I haven't been able to find a therapist since.
I just want to drop in and be like GAH FUCK THIS SHIT I HATE AMERICAN HEALTHCARE IT'S SUCH BULLSHIT. I HATE how hard this country makes it for people to find good mental health care that works for them, and I'm sorry that insurance bullshit took away a thing that was improving your quality of life.
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My own experiences are few, but I can understand being haunted by the monster of anxiety. I know three specific instances (on bsg, tdm1.0, and sfm), and I'm fortunate that it didn't lose my friends when I started catching feelings over nothing. Video games are what I usually go to ally when things don't click, people are busy, or their other side might be feeling some kinda way.
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@Cupcake Shining the spotlight on other players and engaging them in their storylines and history as @Apos suggested is definitely something I still have to work on. My best suggestion for that is to have your character ask a lot of questions about what the other character(s) show interest in. Let the other player lead the unfolding conversation in directions that interest them, but always be prompting them for more. I find this difficult because I want to put in my character's opinion and viewpoint, but if you're solely looking to engage others, it's all about the prompting.
I've seen you do this with your characters and know you can, sometimes it's just a conscious decision that we (you and I for sure, and undoubtedly others) might need to make to explicitly make this scene about the other person. And usually, if you're around awesome people (and there are definitely awesome people on at least one of the games I know you're playing) they'll prompt you right back, and then you're both passing off the spotlight, deepening your characters' storylines, and this is awesome.
Seriously, best of luck to you... it's hard, but it can be fun, and totally rewarding.
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Apos' suggestion works. I knew no one in the community where I met him, actually, but I wanted to be part of it. So I devised a character that had a reason to focus on everyone around her. In a fantasy world, she was writing a 'travel guide' and so she traveled around, interviewing anyone she met that would let her.
I made her gregarious and friendly, and would ask people questions from a list until the rp got us to a point where the questions came organically. I got SO MANY comments ooc about how delightful it was that an interview made people think about their chars and flesh them out in ways they never had before.
In another game, I took a fortune teller and would set up in a main thoroughfare and tell fortunes. Admittedly in that game I had the advantage of a secret power that would sometimes let me glimpse snippets of a character's secrets.
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@surreality said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
It isn't a happy quote. It is still one of the truest things I have ever seen put into words.
It's this:
I'm going to try to out-do it.
“People," Geralt turned his head, "like to invent monsters and monstrosities. Then they seem less monstrous themselves. When they get blind-drunk, cheat, steal, beat their wives, starve an old woman, when they kill a trapped fox with an axe or riddle the last existing unicorn with arrows, they like to think that the Bane entering cottages at daybreak is more monstrous than they are. They feel better then. They find it easier to live.”
― Andrzej Sapkowski, The Last Wish
It's a good quote, though.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@surreality said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
@Kanye-Qwest ...at least, thankfully, with few exceptions (eta: I'm thinkin' Vault Girl and Elsa here), we haven't seen much of this since happening in the hobby since the 90s, either. So I'm all for leaving the term and what it represented in the rear view, and am glad things are moving in that direction on the whole
alternately maybe it's as bad as it's always been but just there are less people willing to complain about it and the community's no longer as receptive to having bad behavior exposed
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@Prototart said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
@surreality said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
@Kanye-Qwest ...at least, thankfully, with few exceptions (eta: I'm thinkin' Vault Girl and Elsa here), we haven't seen much of this since happening in the hobby since the 90s, either. So I'm all for leaving the term and what it represented in the rear view, and am glad things are moving in that direction on the whole
alternately maybe it's as bad as it's always been but just there are less people willing to complain about it and the community's no longer as receptive to having bad behavior exposed
As someone who was around in the hobby 25 years ago, I can tell you with absolute, complete certainty that this is not the case.
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@Ganymede That is fantastic, but the sentiment is quite different in many respects. I'd take the one you quoted more to be indicative of folks who need an external source to demonize, vs. folks who end up falling victim to horrible things that they're simply imagining to be true of themselves. They're opposites, after a fashion, on an axis of 'self-image, out of whack with reality'.
My other favorite quote on this point is from Desiderata, which, while cliche as hell, I still like.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.^ This. This is one aspect of the King quote: we can -- and often do -- imagine ourselves into corners when there's nothing truly keeping us there just as easily as we can succumb to actual failings and vices. More the paper tiger, cornering us as easily as a real one might, and less a case of 'well, I may be a man-eating tiger, but look at that baby-eating dragon over there!'
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality I'm not worried people are talking shit about me all the time simply because most people don't think about me... almost ever.
That's about it. It's true for just about everyone.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Arkandel I wouldn't limit it to that. Head-voices come in many flavors, and they don't necessarily bear any relationship to what anyone else is saying (to someone, behind their back, or otherwise).
"Huh, they didn't respond to my page. Are they ignoring me? Their idle time suggests they're active... "
"S/he keeps gushing about my PB. Do they like my roleplay, or are they just fantasizing about what my PB looks like?"
"I didn't get included in the @mail for the faction event... am I not welcome?"
"Oh, shit, staff is paging me, I must be in trouble!"
"They're super active on their alt, but really slow posing back to me. I must be really boring and shitty compared to that other person."^ Brain monsters.
That's a really, really short list, and we've all seen those things often enough.
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
^ Brain monsters.
Yeah, brain monsters. Fuck brain monsters.
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If you feel you're being ignored or only minimally acknowledged in a scene, is there a healthy way to assert yourself to remind others that you're present? If you are consistently unacknowledged, how do you express your concern in a way that doesn't immediately lead others to conclude you're trying to hog the spotlight?
I know for massive scenes it's okay to page someone with an inquiry - the may have missed it in spam. I never assume in such circumstances I'm being ignored if it happens once or twice. But if I'm in a scene with half a dozen people and my poses aren't being acknowledged at all, or possibly consistently by the same people, am I just not giving enough?
"If you stand for nothing Burr, what will you fall for?"
-- Hamilton: An American Musical -
@Cupcake
Pose directly at someone. People will respond to their name, often having it hilited, and this also gives you and excuse to page them if they don’t seem to respond. “Did you miss this?” is polite, and I’ve seen it many times when I legitimately don’t see someone posing at me in bigger scenes.This way you’ve tried to engage someone directly, and have given them the benefit of the doubt if they overlook you, and you reinforce your interest in an OOC manner without being pushy.
Just a suggestion, of course. Find what works best for you. (This means there will be failures. It’s hard to learn sometimes, but failure here is okay. I am your proof of this.)
And remember, everyone is different. Even if three people brush you off doesn’t mean the fourth will.
And if they do? Their loss. I try to play somewhere I know people so I can ask them if they know what’s going on. This is much harder to do alone, but can be done.
Good luck!
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@Cupcake said in When To Stop Listening To Those Voices:
I know for massive scenes it's okay to page someone with an inquiry - the may have missed it in spam. I never assume in such circumstances I'm being ignored if it happens once or twice. But if I'm in a scene with half a dozen people and my poses aren't being acknowledged at all, or possibly consistently by the same people, am I just not giving enough?
Yeah, large scenes are a crapshoot. It's just a hell for everyone both to even track down all things relevant to them but also deciding which ones they would be responding to - or, hell, even remembering to do so.
For smaller scenes it depends. It could be that someone else has a specific agenda or it's in continuation of an earlier scene that your character is simply the plus-one to; a typical setup for it is romantic pursuits, where you just kind of unofficially get assigned to the fun, fun role of witnessing two people play the flirting dance.
It could also be stuff like... the scene's narrative is shifting towards something that you might miss. For example you go to a bar and think it's a light-hearted social engagement but there's underlying tension because half the people there are Carthian scum and the other half Invictus protocrats so your happy-go-lucky neutral character simply can't get traction.
As to what to do about it? It's easier to say what to not do - try to not take it personally, and don't change your goals to fit someone else's interests unless the two happen to align. It's just not worth it; finding angles that engage you, and partners who are engaged by them, is a far better strategy.
In other words if someone doesn't respond to you, other than for an one-time gentle reminder in case they missed it, fuck'em. Do your thing, and do it with those who enjoy your thing as well.
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@Cupcake I agree there is a different approach when you are posing directly at someone (either naming them ICly or incorporating their name into a pose, vs when you are making a generic or environmental pose to the room and it seems to not be getting traction/inclusion.
I think that it is okay if people are totally not responding to targeted poses with their names in it (after more than one attempt) to ask if they are ICly ignoring them or if it was a missed pose (esp if the poses in the scene or rapid or long or there is something else potentially going on like tabletalk).
If it's that people are not engaging with not personal but more environmental poses then I would suggest NOT paging questions as to whether or not they're ignoring you but instead switch to direct interaction before you decide.
