First Through the Gate Syndrome

[mietze]

I do think that's a great way to get the ball rolling in hierarchical structures where folks are members of the same group! I have run more stuff where the structure is more loosely goosey though, and I think the long awkward pauses tend to happen in situations where the PCs may not feel empowered by position to jump in oocly first!

[faraday]

@Seraphim73 said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

I get that this might play into @faraday's discomfort with being called on to go first, but since we always asked the person who was going to be in charge if they were okay with it, I don't have so much of a big deal with it -- you picked the rank, you 'get' to be in charge, you have to pose first.

I don't have a problem when there's a logical reason why that person needs to go first - there are all kinds of reasons why kicking off a plot might hinge on the actions of someone in particular. Usually that's pretty obvious too - they're the leader, they're the one with the gun to their head, whatever. I just object to springing it on people as a general practice.

[mietze]

I personally wouldn't spring it on anyone as a general practice. It would more be like "hey guys we are 20 minutes in, if you were waiting on anything from me please let me know, I meant to have you go ahead and pose in/3pr until action started, sorry if that wasnt clear. If you need more time please let me know, or go ahead and pose, otherwise I might run a quick init, and I will make my way through that list to check in with you."

[faraday]

@mietze That's cool. I thought what was being discussed was more like: "OK here's the scene set. Pose order for the first round is: Faraday, Seraphim, Auspice, (etc.)" as a means of making sure that somebody was dubbed to go first. Must have misunderstood what you were proposing.

[mietze]

@faraday I'm just stealing @Goblin's idea! I hadn't thought of using a lineup or initiative command to help a scene get started before and I love that it would be be something I could consult in the game rather than get another scratchpad on the table or another thing scribbled in my doc notes! And also lets all the people in the scene be able to consult so they know what order I'll be checking in, when needed, until the next time it is rolled/reordered.

If I have too many RL notes or notes on my computer (esp for throwaway stuff like that that might not even need to be used) I tend to get turned around too easily and I do not want to have someone slip through the cracks.

[Goblin]

Not really MY idea, not taking credit for that - I've seen it being done in various forms by some GMs, but it depends on the plot. @faraday - I get what you're saying, it might not work all the time, it might make people uncomfortable. I guess it's just the same as any other way, asking first if people are ok with that. It could also be that stress relief or help those that don't know when to go with their pose, avoiding the awkward of two people posing at the same time and the pose after the first not fitting with the first, and so on. Once that initial pose order is over with, the ice broken, it tends to just move onwards. I just presented what seemed like an easy solution without the fine print to it, and there's always fine print

[Thenomain]

@Auspice said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

Why are people afraid to be the first pose in an event?

I will be blunt: I have never, not once, in probably as long as we both have been around, seen an event not start right out of the gate.

I’ve seen people ask if someone wants to go first, but it comes across to me as politeness.

I’ve seen people go back and forth with “what do you want to do” / “I dunno, what do you want to do”, but that’s not fear of going first, that’s just...normal writer’s block.

I never set because I’m terrible at setting, and I will throw kudos to people who can do that thing I somehow have no knack for.

But not wanting to start? This is a new one on me.

[Arkandel]

@Thenomain It's also strange because, by going first, you can set your character up a little bit better too.

For example I don't feel comfortable posing as already being in a room if someone else poses that they've been there for a while as well - so if my alcoholic guy is already in his third beer at eleven in the morning it's harder to establish that without resorting to exposition of some sort where three empty glasses and a resigned sigh by the waiter who comes to clean them up would do the trick but... better.

Going first can be very advantageous. Plus you stand a bigger chance of people actually reading your whole pose rather than losing it in the entrance spam.

[Misadventure]

Not directly related, but I seem to recall some places/people writing a set and then leaving it there to read. And there have been places with pose recall so folks entering can catch up. Those were helpful to me.

[Auspice]

@Misadventure said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

Not directly related, but I seem to recall some places/people writing a set and then leaving it there to read. And there have been places with pose recall so folks entering can catch up. Those were helpful to me.

Ares does both of these. If you do a room set, everyone coming in will see it. 'repose' shows the last handful of poses/OOC in the room. You can also view the full log on game or in the portal.

[BetterNow]

Another thing to consider is that being first to pose means being the first to pose the rest of the time right after the GM/ST/DM, which means you don't have that cushion of time to type up your reaction the the plot runner's emits. That makes some people feel pressured, especially if they are a slower writer.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@BetterNow
This is what I hate about it and I feel like I end up being the one to pose first not-infrequently, just because textual dead-air pushes my anxiety buttons more than opening does. If there's pose order it gives you less to react to/makes it a little harder to play off of what other PCs are doing as the scene rolls along.

[Auspice]

@BetterNow said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

Another thing to consider is that being first to pose means being the first to pose the rest of the time right after the GM/ST/DM, which means you don't have that cushion of time to type up your reaction the the plot runner's emits. That makes some people feel pressured, especially if they are a slower writer.

This (including the fact that it can suck to be the 'last' in order as well!) is why I prefer events that are 3PR. Any event I run is 3PR unless we run into something that requires a pose order, but tbh... I rarely do.

I know in a lot of systems (WoD, D&D, etc...) initiative is a big deal in combat, but thankfully that's not a thing in FS3... and is one of the things I really appreciate about it.

[faraday]

@Auspice said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

I know in a lot of systems (WoD, D&D, etc...) initiative is a big deal in combat, but thankfully that's not a thing in FS3... and is one of the things I really appreciate about it.

Glad it's helpful!

And you probably knew this but for anyone who didn't - FS3 does actually have an initiative system; it's just all handled behind the scenes by the code. Players all declare actions in parallel and pose in parallel, but when the code is resolving actions it does matter what order people go in. If A shoots B first, then B is now suffering wound modifiers when they try to attack C. It actually does make a big difference, it's just buried under the hood.

[Testament]

I think it's something I've thought about randomly, but to never anything more than surface depth. Mostly I chalk it up to usually what's happening with me.

Either I'm, A) Lazy and not in any real rush. Or B), I'm probably watching/doing something and not paying as much attention as I should be. This is me pretty much 80% of the time I'm in a scene.

I'm literally the worst.

[Ganymede]

@BetterNow said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

Another thing to consider is that being first to pose means being the first to pose the rest of the time right after the GM/ST/DM, which means you don't have that cushion of time to type up your reaction the the plot runner's emits. That makes some people feel pressured, especially if they are a slower writer.

I can understand this, but there's a way around it. It's called pose-queuing. This is apparently a skill that isn't taught to or honed by newer players, but we old veterans players ought to remember it.

It does require a player to be actively engaged in a scene, though, and I hear that this is a near-impossibility these days.

[faraday]

@Ganymede said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

I can understand this, but there's a way around it. It's called pose-queuing.

Pose-queueing works better IMHO when you're in a regular group scene. In a GM-directed plot, a large chunk of your next action is going to be based solely on whatever the GM's last emit was, not necessarily as much to the other players' actions. It can help to an extent, but you're still stuck waiting to see what the GM has cooked up next.

Of course, most GM-run scenes I've been in have been on 3-per, so there's nothing requiring you to pose first after the GM emit every time.

[Ganymede]

@faraday said in First Through the Gate Syndrome:

In a GM-directed plot, a large chunk of your next action is going to be based solely on whatever the GM's last emit was, not necessarily as much to the other players' actions.

While true, that doesn't mean pose-queuing cannot be done. I say this as someone who has regularly participated in your GM-run scenes, as well as others.

In such circumstances, it is true that you cannot react to the GM's last pose until after it comes out. That said, you can still react to everyone else's prior poses. Ready that up, and you only have one pose to worry about thereafter.

I know I am simplifying the process, and this is because I have been doing this for so damn long as a habit. But when people ask why I can churn out a 2+ paragraph pose in under 3 minutes, this is how.

[mietze]

Gany's pose queuing technique has allowed me to still be in the hobby and not feel that I am dragging anyone down or excessively annoying them by long posing intervals. I am sure I still do at times but it is a lot better than it could be. I find also that cognitively it assists in being attentive and responsive to what people are writing with less skimming. Which I am certain sounds counterintuitive but I have found especially with cognitive issues it is a great way to make sure that you are not forgetting people very often.

[Auspice]

Oh. Ohhhh. Pre-writing your pose as the scene goes.

God, I thought by pose-queuing you meant some sort of pre-determined pose-order that changed each round and I was sitting here wondering why Gany would be a fan.

I've prepped poses as a habit since as long as I can remember. Which was how in a big plot on that X-Men: Evolution game I ended up tossing out a pose that was almost two screens in length.

Because a) I kept working on it as other people posed, b) I don't edit. >.>

Yeah, I always prep poses as I go. It's part of why I love/need dual-input clients like Potato.