Tyche Banned

[Runescryer]

@Ghost said in Tyche Banned:

Tyche didnt really seem to have interest in interfacing with anyone constructively on the forum. He mostly just haunted political threads to ruffle feathers using superskeeeery alt-rightisms to watch people's reactions. Not surprised to see this, but ultimately I question why he wasted his time to begin with.

For the only reason that matters to people like that: personal lulz.

[Kodiak]

But @Tyche kept telling us he wasn't a racist!

[insomniac7809]

@Kodiak said in Tyche Banned:

But @Tyche kept telling us he wasn't a racist!

And that he'd never heard of any of the places he posted his alt-right poop from, and that it was just a weird coincidence that he kept linking to "news" sites that have "ISRAEL DID 9/11" on their home page, and that all his funny memes about what dumb bitches women are were just random jokes he felt like sharing.

Tyche should've been banned a year ago, but better late than never.

[Sunny]

@insomniac7809

I mean the bar is so low a corgi puppy has to work to trip over it, so.

[Ghost]

@insomniac7809 said in Tyche Banned:

@Kodiak said in Tyche Banned:

But @Tyche kept telling us he wasn't a racist!

And that he'd never heard of any of the places he posted his alt-right poop from, and that it was just a weird coincidence that he kept linking to "news" sites that have "ISRAEL DID 9/11" on their home page, and that all his funny memes about what dumb bitches women are were just random jokes he felt like sharing.

Tyche should've been banned a year ago, but better late than never.

God it's terribad, the way some people act like they just stumbled over a stone and found some perfect news article that frames their political argument du jour. The ramp up is always some kind of fake pastor story, like when a pastor goes "I was at a comic shop this weekend and someone asked 'Hey, do you think theres room for cyborgs in heaven?'" THIS CONVERSATION IN NO WAY FUCKING HAPPENED.

Anyway, I digress, but it's like: "I ACCIDENTALLY came across this One World News article about Hillary Clinton..."

C'mon. Bullshit.

[insomniac7809]

@Ghost Right? It's not that he lied that bugs me, it's that he thinks his lie is remotely plausible and it's supposed to be on me to play dumb about the lie. In the interests of civility or whatever.

[GreenFlashlight]

@Ghost said in Tyche Banned:

Anyway, I digress, but it's like: "I ACCIDENTALLY came across this One World News article about Hillary Clinton..."

C'mon. Bullshit.

I can believe it. I'm in a few politics groups, and there's always one Neo-Nazi (I will not be suckered into calling them "alt-right") who's trying to infiltrate by subtly sneaking in articles from sites you don't recognize whose headlines sound progressive but then you read it and you notice it uses the term "Zionist media."

Doesn't sound like it was a mistake in Tyche's case, but I can believe it happening randomly and/or carelessly.

[insomniac7809]

@GreenFlashlight Once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

[GreenFlashlight]

@insomniac7809 said in Tyche Banned:

@GreenFlashlight Once is chance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

Yeah, I never really saw his posts, but all the people saying he should have been gone a year ago lead me to believe it was a pattern.

[Kestrel]

@Ghost said in Tyche Banned:

Tyche didnt really seem to have interest in interfacing with anyone constructively on the forum. He mostly just haunted political threads to ruffle feathers using superskeeeery alt-rightisms to watch people's reactions. Not surprised to see this, but ultimately I question why he anyone wasted his their time feeding and allowing him to oh-so slyly provocateur on this forum for so long to begin with.

ftfy

@insomniac7809 said in Tyche Banned:

@Ghost Right? It's not that he lied that bugs me, it's that he thinks his lie is remotely plausible and it's supposed to be on me to play dumb about the lie. In the interests of civility or whatever.

I'm so fucking tired of civility towards these kinds of shitstains, frankly. Very very over it. @saosmash, @silverfox and @surreality said it all. Some topics don't deserve civil discourse. Treating it with unearned respect only serves to normalise the behaviour and give it a sense of legitimacy, as though it were on equal footing with other, equally valid viewpoints on perhaps not being a racist. There's a word for this. It doesn't deserve to be held in this regard. It doesn't deserve any kind of place in civil society. It is not civil.

@GreenFlashlight said in Tyche Banned:

there's always one Neo-Nazi (I will not be suckered into calling them "alt-right")

[Deleted]

@Kestrel I prefer Alt-Reich myself.

[Wretched]

@Admiral Ya'll Queda?

[Auspice]

@Wretched said in Tyche Banned:

@Admiral Ya'll Queda?

[insomniac7809]

@Kestrel said in Tyche Banned:

feeding and allowing him to oh-so slyly provocateur on this forum for so long to begin with.

You know, that's the thing.

I'm not talking shit about him on this thread because he and I argued a lot and, now that he's gone, I'm wallowing in schadenfreude and taking some cowardly potshots when he's not here to clap back at me.

(Okay, I'm not just doing that don't @ me)

It's been really clear for a really long time that Tyche was not engaging in good faith. I'm not saying this because we disagree on politics, I'm saying it because he kept breaking the rules, kept catching a warnings, and not once did he interpret these warnings as "I should engage with the other posters on this forum like a decent human being." At most, he tried to ask a couple questions to work out exactly where the line was for various-ist trolling so he could creep right back up to that line and start edging his toe at it.

Until he finally, finally overstepped it enough that he got shitcanned from the forum, about as unpredictably as the fucking sun rising in the fucking east.

Which was always the way this was going to go. If someone breaks a rule, catches a warning, and shapes up, then hey, we have a good forum citizen, slaughter the fatted calf. If someone instead shifts the exact same pattern of behavior but not-technically-quite breaking the rules as they understand them, they will keep catching warnings until they finally get kicked out for good. The only question is how much they shit the place up until it reaches that point.

My $0.02 anyway.

[Kestrel]

@insomniac7809 said in Tyche Banned:

It's been really clear for a really long time that Tyche was not engaging in good faith. I'm not saying this because we disagree on politics, I'm saying it because he kept breaking the rules, kept catching a warnings, and not once did he interpret these warnings as "I should engage with the other posters on this forum like a decent human being." At most, he tried to ask a couple questions to work out exactly where the line was for various-ist trolling so he could creep right back up to that line and start edging his toe at it.

I'll be honest. I don't care about the rules. I care about the very first sentence in this paragraph. Rules should neither entitle nor excuse anyone behaving a certain way.

@surreality mentioned feeling proud to have been banned from a forum at one point because she realised it was a disgusting cesspit. I applaud that.

If I felt MSB was as vile a cesspit as Tyche is, I would very gladly get myself banned here for speaking my mind and I'd wear that like a badge of pride. (What up HavenRPG/Discordance.)

I have no idea if this is how Tyche feels, or if he finally put his foot in his mouth and slipped just one step further than he'd intended to in order to make sure he could keep rules-lawyering his way out of trouble. But one thing I'm willing to respect about the former mentality is that at least such people are consistent about what they believe in and not spineless cowards who place social acceptability above their moral integrity.

While we are on the topic of Jews and ovens, I suggest looking into the Milgram experiment. Some proper looking person in a labcoat telling you that your behaviour is OK doesn't make it so any more than an admin on the internet does.

Yeah I really don't care one bit that Tyche broke rules, I care that his politics are disgusting and that as a society we seem to think such things are more sacred than the actual human lives they systemically oppress.

[GreenFlashlight]

@Kestrel said in Tyche Banned:

I'll be honest. I don't care about the rules. I care about the very first sentence in this paragraph. Rules should neither entitle nor excuse anyone behaving a certain way.

I understand very well the need for those in power to have rules that justify their actions to those of us without power, but I agree here nevertheless. Allowing someone to game the rules to break their spirit is not a success of the system, it's a perversion.

[mietze]

From a pragmatic standpoint, for a really long time this has been a very lightly moderated forum.

COULD we turn this forum into one that is much more moderated in terms of tone, strict rules, ect? Yes, we could. It would involve taking away some elements that probably people would object to. (no politics/no religion/limited venting/removal of posts at a far lower bar for belligerence, ect.)

Maybe it'll happen sometime, maybe it won't, but it's not really what it is now.

If someone ever creates a constructive only forum community for MUSH land, where civil discourse is enforced with moderation, I would happily participate. I do think that's a lot harder than a lot of people appreciate, which is why to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet, and when/if it does I hope people will be appreciative.

[surreality]

@mietze I considered it for a while? Thing is, I would crack down on not just things like Tyche did, but also the quick-labeling of people as racist/sexist/etc. Calling out a behavior or action as a *ist act is helpful and necessary, I believe, and can lead to productive discussion, but labeling human beings tends to get people to dig their heels in and escalate or dismiss what's being said out of defensiveness.

I grok the intellectual argument that we are all *ist in ingrained ways by society, and we should examine that, but getting people to engage in the hard work of self-examination of these biases in good faith and trying to better themselves in these important ways is difficult once the defensive reaction button is pressed. Most folks are also legitimately unaware of these interpretations of the language, which are more academic than common parlance, and will assume 'you're sexist' means they're regularly engaging in sexual harassment or active, conscious misogyny, etc., and I get why people freak out and go on the defensive when that's how they're interpreting the statement. Extra unfortunate is that it's most common in people who do make an effort, and the defensiveness comes from 'I know I am making an effort to not be that kind of person!' and they don't fully understand why it's being said.

On conscious *ist behavior, trolling, bullying, or harassment, there would be no leeway or understanding afforded there. 'I was just kidding!'? Nope. Get a better sense of humor.

Pretty sure that'd go over like a lead balloon, which is something I find sad for a number of reasons.

[krmbm]

@mietze said in Tyche Banned:

If someone ever creates a constructive only forum community for MUSH land, where civil discourse is enforced with moderation, I would happily participate. I do think that's a lot harder than a lot of people appreciate, which is why to my knowledge it hasn't happened yet, and when/if it does I hope people will be appreciative.

It has happened. Several times. They don't last, 'cause people get bored.

There's a reason the Hog Pit accounts for ~45% of the posts on MSB: it's more fun in there.

[mietze]

The last one I know about was started during the age of WORA, like 10-15 years ago. I would be interested to see if it would last longer now.

I will be honest in saying that I think one of the reasons why MSB is a lot less tolerant of things like doxing, posting people's rl photos to be laughed at, ect is not because of moderation or anything else here other than the fact that the people gleefully cheering that on and/or participating are now 10=15 years older than they were and maybe have a little more perspective on life.

Because rules of "don't do this" really don't prevent people from doing a thing, but I do think more and more people in the community would not even consider starting a post about their hated staffer/game runner while also chortling about their "ugly" developmentally disabled baby and how they deserved to have a kid like that because of how awful they were on a game. It is less acceptable to post RL pictures of people to mock their weight, attractiveness, ect. and that happened multiple times before.

So I think were one started, who knows, maybe there are more people who can take or leave the dirt--or at least be happy to participate in a constructive place and leave the dirt to discord or dirty sites. But again, keeping a forum or FB group "civil" is by no means an easy task.