Jun 7, 2020, 1:17 AM
Not gonna lie, if I need to read an ethnography to roll up a PC I probably won't.
Diversity Representation in MU*ing
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Not gonna lie, if I need to read an ethnography to roll up a PC I probably won't.
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@Kanye-Qwest said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
uh i have no idea what mechanic this is but it SOUNDS racist af, just from those terms. Never thought I'd be an elf apologist but EVERYONE SUCKS BUT HUMANS is yikes.
Lmao this was my reaction, though I at least get the sentiment of making races noticeably different.
Ironically much of the tabletop industry I've been involved with lately is trying to fix all the weirdly unfortunate racial implications from older books (or just outright racist things, which I'll discuss more when one of the books is out and I'm allowed to talk about it).
@insomniac7809 said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Not gonna lie, if I need to read an ethnography to roll up a PC I probably won't.
I don't know what's different between a few pages explaining a culture and literally an entire WoD book that does the same thing, except it's a whole ass book.
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@HelloProject said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I don't know what's different between a few pages explaining a culture and literally an entire WoD book that does the same thing, except it's a whole ass book.
WoD is wildly inconsistent on this, though. V5 gives each clan a few pages. Except for Hecata, which is apparently getting an entire splatbook? I think you can get the necessary basics for the vampire clans from a few pages, which goes to your point. Entire books are for lore nerds who want to flesh everything out. Unless you feel like playing a Toreador antitribu who likes making flesh-sculptures for her Sabbat buddies, the corebook will do just fine.
Also @Kanye-Qwest how dare you elves are precious
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@insomniac7809 said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Not gonna lie, if I need to read an ethnography to roll up a PC I probably won't.
You're the reason nobody reads theme files.
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I once wrote the Mexican Mafia/Latino Cartel mast rigging game (it's a system of cultural interaction for police, military, mercenaries, criminals, and professional labor - we'd call it blue collar - in Latin areas) as Gilligan, from Gilligan's Island, as a reference to Treasure Island, a book about privateers and pirates, a common mast rigging game classic use to teach children how mutual and fair interactions work.
It was not well received.
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@HelloProject said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I don't know what's different between a few pages explaining a culture and literally an entire WoD book that does the same thing, except it's a whole ass book.
Every big-ass WoD book on one of the splats is a deep dive into a two-page spread that contains the splat's general deal, and every two-page spread is building off a three- or four-word hook that the splat is built around.
I can read Clan Book: Daeva if I feel like it. But "sexy Anne Rice vampire" covers what I need to get started.
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@insomniac7809 said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Not gonna lie, if I need to read an ethnography to roll up a PC I probably won't.
Actually, I think this works out best for everyone.
I wish more people who did not want to read up about who they are playing did not make characters.
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@Warma-Sheen said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I wish more people who did not want to read up about who they are playing did not make characters.
I don't disagree with you. Some reading is certainly to be expected, and reasonably demanded. But I do feel this need to point out that some is not fifty pages. I am not the only person out there with mild brain damage, finding it difficult to retain large infodumps with little context.
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I like reading and do always. However I have seldom found that game staff uphold the culture of the world that they've built, and find that making a PC that fits in it and relies on it to any extent has led to a lot of let down 99 percent of the time.
So I mean yes, you can be pissy at "players" not reading but in my experience it's usually staff who show them no matter what they give lip service to that it actually isnt necessary or even supported.
And yep, I do understand why staff may not wish to enforce theme, it isnt fun usually especially in games like CoD that kind of attract in my observation a lot of rules lawyering and lots of shiny powers to collect and PCs are kind of expected to be able to do what they wish with minimal impediment on any game I've played.
But I do think that is partially why people do not invest in reading in depth. They do not have to most of the time and they are unlikely to be playing with people who honor it or have done the same, and they will not get any perks for having done so either especially from staff!
The slim minority of places I've played where their was at least for some time robust theme enforcement was awesome. I just do not envy staff that take that on.
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I definitely think staff need to enforce their own theme and rules. Hell I wish all the time that Arx would enforce their PB rules that are written in the very rule files, about not obviously race changing a character away from their desc.
As far as what other people are saying, I agree in general a little bit with everyone.
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I definitely think a short few pages is most of what's needed to get the gist across about something. Hell you don't even have to go more than one page, I've literally had to do this.
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I also think that a nice long optional deep dive can't hurt either, to elaborate on the points in the shorter section. I usually will reference such a section or gradually absorb it over time as I play a character. I think it's unrealistic to expect someone to read and remember a whole book's worth of information about a single character type.
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I agree that there's a lot of people who don't read or who ignore theme, and while I get that staff not reinforcing what they've written can be an issue, I don't think it should be an excuse to not care about theme. I don't expect a reward for playing my character well or trying to work together with other players who are trying to also hold together a cohesive theme and have distinct cultures that aren't just a generic blob.
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@HelloProject said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
I definitely think staff need to enforce their own theme and rules. Hell I wish all the time that Arx would enforce their PB rules that are written in the very rule files, about not obviously race changing a character away from their desc.
Have you submitted requests about these? Because staff definitely doesn't go through and look at every character page in search of it. Sometimes you gotta point their attention to an issue. There's too many PCs for them to proactively enforce by checking all the pages every day.
I can tell you that there explicitly have been issues when they've enforced it, but they had to be made aware.
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@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Have you submitted requests about these? Because staff definitely doesn't go through and look at every character page in search of it. Sometimes you gotta point their attention to an issue. There's too many PCs for them to proactively enforce by checking all the pages every day.
I can tell you that there explicitly have been issues when they've enforced it, but they had to be made aware.
Nah you have a good point, I just kind of assumed that since it was happening then it was allowed, so I didn't bother. I'll keep it in mind for the future.
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@HelloProject Yeah, you just gotta think of the size of Arx. Objects of unthematic nature proliferate, character images get changed all the time, etc. Assume staff hasn't seen something before you assume they've seen it and declined to enforce a policy.
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@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Objects of unthematic nature proliferate...
Like dildo tchotchkes.
Well, those might not be unthematic, considering the openness of the society to sex, but there's no reason to craft them.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
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@Ominous said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Well, those might not be unthematic, considering the openness of the society to sex, but there's no reason to craft them.
... unless you use them.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@Ganymede said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
@Ominous said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
Well, those might not be unthematic, considering the openness of the society to sex, but there's no reason to craft them.
... unless you use them.
not unthematic but AGAINST POLICY TO CRAFT, GANYMEDE PLZ
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@Roz said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:
not unthematic but AGAINST POLICY TO CRAFT, GANYMEDE PLZ
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@Roz Randomly, but there is a connection:
About a dozen or so years ago, there was a new law on the federal books re: not making 'drug paraphenalia' for sale (and I think that inventory of the same needed to be destroyed, but I don't recall the specifics of that part). At the time, there was a thriving community of glassblowers and glass artisans who made all manner of things from beads to vases to artsy trinkets, but the biggest sellers were always the pipes. They were rarely usable and were collectibles, but that didn't matter so long as they took the form of a pipe. (As in, you couldn't just seal it off -- even permanently with more glass in every opening -- and make it a vase.)
This is where the bulk of the sales were coming from to support an art form that was already at risk at the time, until the law of unintended consequences kicked in.
...anyone remember how artsy glass dildos came into vogue a little over a decade ago as something other than a obscure rarity, and could now be found everywhere?
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I used to do things like go through char pages/galleries/ item / retainer lists every so often, and weed out the unthematic ones. but i don't and other staffers probably have more productive ways to spend their time, so you gotta point it out.
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I never did get my peacock.