Diversity Representation in MU*ing

[mietze]

Not that pollution ever left, but there was some significant progress in some areas, within living memory. Also the same people who say that kind of dumb shit would be the first to be pissed if other people just flung their garbage out the car window by their house and other people let their dogs shit all over their yard.

I totally get the irritation over helicopter parents of the current time, I certainly had quite a few other mommies waggle their finger at me for letting my group of 3 older kids roam our property and a neighbor's (with permission) unsupervised (undeveloped land backed into a greenbelt with a shallow creek, kid paradise). And be shocked that I would drive preteens to the mall and then let them be while I sat in the bookstore cafe (I would have gone home but it's a long enough drive to make that irritating and hey, bookstore cafe).

But idealizing that era is stupid. Especially because of the domestic violence, and really gruesome injuries at low speed that are less prevalent.

[insomniac7809]

@mietze My irritation comes down to the fact that, in my experience, the demographic that bemoans the Lost Age when kids could run around unattended are the same people who are convinced that any kid out of line of sight for five minutes will be abducted by one of the pedophiles that hides behind every hedge and under every rock. (It's safer for kids than it's ever been, Karen, you just watch too much cable news.)

[mietze]

Sadly in our areas there are often dogwhistle descriptions or just people outright saying that they fear their precious white children will be taken by brown people/"illegals" in particular. Might wanna keep your eye closer on your kid's coach,youth pastor, and relatives/family friends than "people who don't belong", lady. But way off topic. Still irritating!

[Goblin]

@insomniac7809 This. THIS EXACTLY.

[Pacha]

@Ganymede

As a gay man I hate a lot of the (supposedly) positive stereotyping that goes on too.

I mean, you get the traditional homophobes who think that all gay people are depraved predators who are coming for your kids, but there is also another set of people who have unreasonable standards that you should be their own personal 'Queer Eye' or whatever. You should be an expert in art, fashion and design, an expert cook and have perfect hair/skin/teeth/abs and whatever else.

More than once, someone has accused me of not being a 'proper' gay because I don't meet some standard of gay perfection they have in their head. It is not as immediately dangerous as, for example, being black where some policeman might just shoot you for fun (though it still isn't safe to be 'obviously' gay in a lot of places --even in Europe). However, it puts pressure on a group that struggle far too often with not feeling good enough that they are meant to meet some unattainable standard of perfection.

[Derp]

@surreality said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Goblin That's a lot like 'redneck' jokes in the US, at a glance. Which are also gross.

I blame Foxworthy.

[Derp]

@Pacha said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

You should be an expert in art, fashion and design, an expert cook and have perfect hair/skin/teeth/abs and whatever else.

This.

Like -- dudes. I shop at Wal-Mart. I don't know shit about fashion. Or makeup. I don't know which wedding dress looks perfect on you. I missed that day in orientation, alright?

[Auspice]

@Derp said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Pacha said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

You should be an expert in art, fashion and design, an expert cook and have perfect hair/skin/teeth/abs and whatever else.

This.

Like -- dudes. I shop at Wal-Mart. I don't know shit about fashion. Or makeup. I don't know which wedding dress looks perfect on you. I missed that day in orientation, alright?

Unfortunately, the bisexual orientation got cancelled due to lack of funding and outside interest.

[Jeshin]

I always thought pining for the days when kids could play outside unsupervised was really alluding too...

Wow I wish we could go back to a time when your neighbor and strangers didn't think they could call CPS on you for not being attached to the hip of your child.

Wow I wish we could go back to a time when the government (CPS or otherwise) didn't think they could tell you that letting you kid walk home from school was abuse.

[silverfox]

@Jeshin

I do agree with this.

[insomniac7809]

@Jeshin Yeah, and that's something I'm sympathetic to, overall.

But usually when I've seen it in the wild, it's from the same people--or at the very least the same demographic--that was pushing the "pedophiles in the shrubbery" fears. The idea being, apparently, that Children Aren't Safe Unattended In These Fallen Days, not that their generation lost its collective shit over Stranger Danger (while not actually being more cautious around the youth pastor or the little league coach).

[mietze]

When I have seen it crop up most often it is usually in the context of decrying horrible things like helmet requirements, vaccinations, anti-bullying and anti-discrimination discussions in schools, and usually with a dig at wimpy "millenials" (as if they were children) who need participation trophies and to be wrapped in bubble wrap.

Very seldom is it ever in the context of having compassion for other parents or respecting the bodies or needs of children.

[bored]

@surreality said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

It's the same for Russian characters -- except in that case, I haven't even seen the one that isn't somehow involved in organized crime.

It's worse than MUSHing, really. Think about when you saw one of these anywhere in media. This is what I was getting at with the really blatant slavic (and really any non-Western European ethnicity) racism thing earlier; you only ever see Russian mobsters (or even worse, Albanian mobsters, who are real bad dudes unlike the friendly wise guy Italian mobsters), spies, and maybe the occasional warlord or arms dealer. Naturally you never see these roles played by the actual ethnicities, either (holy shit this Black Widow movie is going to be an accent trainwreck).

...that brings me to another point. I really don't have a ton of empathy for people who 'don't see it'. I need to work on myself on that, but it aggressively frustrates me. Again: clueless high school students in the 80s could see examples of sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and other bigoted gross all over the place without any trouble. Less enlightened time, even!

But these things are not fucking subtle.

I genuinely do not understand how people 'don't see them'.

I think it's less a matter of not seeing, as it is to seeing what is presently culturally normalized, encouraged, and subconsciously desired. Media representations are a lot less accidental than we tend to treat them.

Certainly the horrific stuff you see in Sixteen Candles isn't the product of someone just being confused and thinking Asians are really like that maybe? It's propaganda meant to satisfy audience anxieties and prejudices (in this case, reflective of American fear first of Japan's economic rise and then the subsequent 'Tiger Economies' in the 70s, 80s and 90s) by mocking those cultures. And this is a broader trend. While we identify 'outsiders' by appearance, how we treat them is much more socially contextual. Asians are 'good' except when we think they're up to something (WWII, or the period above). Muslims are weird not-Christians, but we don't care that much except when they're obviously all terrorists (80s after Iran Hostage crisis, 2000s, etc). After 9/11, we get 24, a vastly popular show where we cheer a dude torturing people (who went from 90s holdover Balkan-types as the first season was produced pre-9/11, to typical nuke-wielding Muslims, to Mexican cartel types, back to Muslims... eventually getting to Chinese agents as we culturally decided who our next enemy was; see a pattern here?).

Uh. This has gotten long and convoluted, but yeah. The worse it is, the less likely it is to be accidental.

[surreality]

@bored The glamorization of organized crime in film and television, too, among all ethnic groups. And I really couldn't say which is worse here: the demonization of the ethnic group by suggesting they're all in organized crime, or the glamorization it. Both of these things are one of those third rail topics that send me into death glare territory.

I partly blame this conversation having happened about a hundred times (not even an exaggeration, gods help me):

Person: "OMG, you haven't watched The Sopranos?"
Me: "No."
Person: "But you're Italian! And it's about being Italian!"
Me: "...no, it's about organized crime, and tries to normalize and glamorize it. It is not about 'being Italian'."
Person: "But aren't you even part Sicilian?"
Me: "...and still not part of organized crime, nor is any member of my extended family."
Person: "...oh, I get it, you have to say that."
Me: "..."

[saosmash]

@surreality Uggggggggh.

[Alamias]

@surreality

[surreality]

@saosmash @Alamias Yeeeeah, it's pretty gross. At the same time? It's not the kind of damage/harm done re: the appearance-based expectations and demonization out there.

[Derp]

@surreality said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Person: "OMG, you haven't watched The Sopranos?"
Me: "No."
Person: "But you're Italian! And it's about being Italian!"
Me: "...no, it's about organized crime, and tries to normalize and glamorize it. It is not about 'being Italian'."
Person: "But aren't you even part Sicilian?"
Me: "...and still not part of organized crime, nor is any member of my extended family."
Person: "...oh, I get it, you have to say that."
Me: "..."

Have you told the Don that people are asking about this kind of crap?

runs away

[TNP]

@Derp

[Prototart]

if someone is Hungarian then 100% they are a vampire