Good TV

[GreenFlashlight]

@warma-sheen said in Good TV:

I can't remember any white characters that were racist.

I haven't seen the show, but isn't there a white cop who profiles Sam and is about to arrest him for bothering Bucky despite Bucky not being bothered? I swear I've seen a clip of that.

[Ortallus]

@greenflashlight said in Good TV:

@warma-sheen said in Good TV:

I can't remember any white characters that were racist.

I haven't seen the show, but isn't there a white cop who profile Sam and is about to arrest him for bothering Bucky despite Bucky not being bothered? I swear I've seen a clip of that.

Aha, yep, you're absolutely right. They're even in a black neighborhood at the time, and it was actually Bucky bothering Sam.

[Ganymede]

@arkandel

This is why I liked She-Ra so much.

Black lesbian couple.

Black male main hero with two dads.

Asian central princess.

Autistic pivotal character.

Alternate body shapes.

Transgender character.

Non-binary characters.

And no one seems to care at all because it’s normal to them.

[Warma Sheen]

@ganymede Can't wait until that's normal to us.

[Wretched]

@ganymede said in Good TV:

@arkandel

This is why I liked She-Ra so much.

Black lesbian couple.

Black male main hero with two dads.

Asian central princess.

Autistic pivotal character.

Alternate body shapes.

Transgender character.

Non-binary characters.

And no one seems to care at all because it’s normal to them.

[Arkandel]

... Case in point:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-b-jordan-without-remorse-diversity-tom-clancy-universe-black-superman-rumors-165718542.html

[Runescryer]

@faraday said in Good TV:

@groth said in Good TV:

In a world where Kanye West exists, is a black billionaire playboy really that unthinkable?

Not at all. I liked Connor Mason's character very much in Timeless as the eccentric billionaire inventor.

But I think it gets murkier when you have established properties. People come at it with expectations about the characters. There's more to Tony Stark than just "billionaire playboy". He has a backstory, which comes with a certain set of baggage.

For example, I didn't like it when RDM's Battlestar gender-swapped Starbuck. Not because I have anything against inclusion (on the contrary, I think it's vital), but because I had this "Dirk Benedict" image of this character etched in my head and it created a weird cognitive dissonance. I would much rather them have reimagined Sheba or Athena, or promoted a new character.

I get that it's different in comics, since there are already so many variants of characters. And that there's some marketing value in making a "female 007" versus a new and original spy character. At the end of the day, I applaud having more diversity. I just sometimes wonder if there's maybe a better way to get there.

Just my opinion, but it's sort of a 'chicken vs. egg' problem. You need to have diverse characters in order to encourage and attract diverse creators to make diverse characters that are more representative of diversity.

Example: the two iconic Black comic characters are, arguably, Luke Cage and Black Panther. But, both were created by White (Jewish) creators; Archie Goodwin and Jack Kirby, respectively. And at the time (late 60's/early 70's), Luke Cage and Black Panther sound and act like stereotypes. But, they inspired a generation of Black creators (Ta-Nehesi Coates, Christopher Priest, Dwayne McDuffy) who not only went on to make the characters more authentic and redefine them in the modern age, but also would create groundbreaking new characters like Static, and that increased the diversity of comics overall, bringing in more minority creative talents that created characters like Ms. Marvel and more.

[Runescryer]

Okay, setting aside the problems with Joss Wheedon for a moment...

The Nevers is turning out to be a rather good show. It's not all 'Victorian London superwomen', there are some men who have powers. More importantly, there's a good mystery at the core of the series, besides 'what's the source of the powers?'. Several factions at work, with the core group caught in the middle.

[GreenFlashlight]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

... Case in point:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/michael-b-jordan-without-remorse-diversity-tom-clancy-universe-black-superman-rumors-165718542.html

I often wonder if racists ever know what they're implying when they argue that the most moral man on Earth can't be black.

[mietze]

@greenflashlight Why do you wonder this? Historically there have been many justifications that black people and brown people need white people to act as their moral guideposts because they're incapable of being anything other than crude heathens without them. It seems like a classic racist and colonialist argument that of course the ultimate arbiter of morality is going to reside with someone they view as white.

[Ortallus]

@mietze said in Good TV:

@greenflashlight Why do you wonder this? Historically there have been many justifications that black people and brown people need white people to act as their moral guideposts because they're incapable of being anything other than crude heathens without them. It seems like a classic racist and colonialist argument that of course the ultimate arbiter of morality is going to reside with someone they view as white.

White Western Civilization is immorally destroying our planet, but 'primitive cultures' are often far more happy with their way of life.

[Arkandel]

@greenflashlight said in Good TV:

I often wonder if racists ever know what they're implying when they argue that the most moral man on Earth can't be black.

I can't say, but Superman falls within the Starfire clause; he's a freakin' alien. Humans on his earth should be happy he doesn't have tentacles for fingers and bug eyes, let alone the pigmentation of his skin.

[Groth]

@arkandel

If you ignore his previous visual incarnations for a moment and just go with 'A human form alien thats powered by the light of a yellow sun', wouldnt his most natural skin color be Blue(blue is what remains if you remove yellow from light) or atleast heavily tan/dark skinned?

[Coin]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

@greenflashlight said in Good TV:

I often wonder if racists ever know what they're implying when they argue that the most moral man on Earth can't be black.

I can't say, but Superman falls within the Starfire clause; he's a freakin' alien. Humans on his earth should be happy he doesn't have tentacles for fingers and bug eyes, let alone the pigmentation of his skin.

@groth said in Good TV:

@arkandel

If you ignore his previous visual incarnations for a moment and just go with 'A human form alien thats powered by the light of a yellow sun', wouldnt his most natural skin color be Blue(blue is what remains if you remove yellow from light) or atleast heavily tan/dark skinned?

Ironically, or perhaps deliberately, Icon, the Dakotaverse's analogue for Superman, is a character who isn't human-seeming in his natural form, but takes the shape of the nearest human specimen: a black man. So not only do they manage to make a black version of the general Superman archetype; they manage to do it without one of the dumbest issues that Superman originally has (re: he's an alien from another planet that is essentially a white human man).

[Arkandel]

@coin That AND THE GLASSES THING which I'll never get over. I'm getting help.

[Runescryer]

@coin The Alex Ross portrait of Barak Obama as Superman was so iconic, DC created a Black Superman in 2009; Kalel, aka Calvin Ellis, Superman of Earth 23. Also, President of the United States.

[Coin]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

@coin That AND THE GLASSES THING which I'll never get over. I'm getting help.

At least the glasses thing has some studies backing it. A rando alien looking exactly like a white male is just ridiculous.

[Arkandel]

@runescryer said in Good TV:

@coin The Alex Ross portrait of Barak Obama as Superman was so iconic, DC created a Black Superman in 2009; Kalel, aka Calvin Ellis, Superman of Earth 23. Also, President of the United States.

Wtf, they broke the alliterative naming convention? Why not Calvin Collins or something?

[GreenFlashlight]

@arkandel said in Good TV:

Wtf, they broke the alliterative naming convention? Why not Calvin Collins or something?

Superman has a history going way back of using pseudonyms that are based on "Kal-El," like Calvin Ellis. Naming Superpresident after one of those pseudonyms was a cute Easter egg for the hardcore fans.

[Ganymede]

It's 3 AM. I must be lonely.

But the final three episodes of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power have again left me in tears and speechless.

This is the best series no one's watching.