RL Anger

[Tyche]

@BigDaddyAmin said:

Unfortunately, it won't. This is a clash of cultures, to be honest. The Byzantines faced it and they died out in 1453. At least they took a stand. We won't because we are stupid enough to fight wars for other people who don't have our vested interests at heart but instead keep us supplied with cheap oil to fuel our cars, iPhones, porn, and Fallout 4. Kind of makes Aldous Huxley's "scent organs"and "feelies" look like Family Circus, huh?

The world is powered by oil, and without it Fallout 4 would not be possible.
So we do have strong convictions.... concerning oil [1].
Part of the problem is that we have offered a fair exchange to those who've sold it.
It's what they've decided to spend that wealth on that's the "policy" problem.

[1] Admittedly there are a number of people who think oil is some sort of dirty unwanted substance and haven't the faintest clue of what it is used for beyond filling their automobile tanks.

[Tyche]

@ThatGuyThere said:

You do realize that in the shows they violate this prime directive all the freaking time? Including many times when in dialogue they even admit they are doing it?

I learned from the original Star Trek that the prime directive could always be suspended if there were chicks involved.

[Arkandel]

@Tyche Any directive, amount of better judgement or common sense is suspended if there are chicks involved.

[peasoupling]

@Arkandel said:

@peasoupling said:

Many Muslims choose to renounce the religion entirely too, without reprisal. Of course, these usually live outside theocracies or extremist communities. Theocracies are awful, and fundamentalism is awful, and Islam has very serious and troubling issues with those.

Yes, and it's theocracies (or any other type of extreme regime which focuses on its own values to suppress individual expression) which are the problem, not the religion in question. There have been points in time when not being a Christian - or, hell, just a different flavor of one - could absolutely get you killed and/or tortured.

Religion has been used as a vehicle to power before and its exact contents are preeeetty much irrelevant. Christianity claims awful lot of "love your neighbor" and "turn the other cheek" mandates yet large scale atrocities have been committed in its name. To those who just want to blow shit up and burn shit down any ol' holy book will do as a banner.

I generally agree. I'm not completely sure that religion has no influence, or that some religious texts and traditions might not be more prone, for historical reasons, to terrible interpretations and justifications. Some forms of Islam are awful, in and of themselves, as religions. For example, the garbage woman-hating death cult version that asshole wealthy Saudi fundamentalists like to fund around the world.

But I also think that there isn't an Islam or a Christianity, there are Islams and Christianities, and the general name just refers to a lot of different, vaguely related sets of beliefs that claim descent from the same revelation. There are also awful forms of Christianity, it's just that they aren't as popular these days, or they don't have as much power. You do have things like American Evangelicals funding murderous homophobia in Africa, but it's on a different scale.

But then I don't see a lot of people condemning Buddhism as a whole because of Buddhist violence in Southeast Asia, either.

[BigDaddyAmin]

@ThatGuyThere

Yeah. And when they do, it pisses me off.

The spirit of the Prime Directive makes a point that cultures and civilizations are unique. They should be left to develop and have self-determination.

While Enterprise did suck (though T'Pol's fun bags made it bearable), there was one episode I liked where they encountered an alien race called the Vissians that had three genders. Male, Female, and then an androgen cogenitor, which was utilized for breeding since that gender of the species provided an essential enzyme needed in the reproductive process. In this alien's society, the cogenitor doesn't really have rights, isn't taught to read, and is essentially circulated in a government sponsored system that provides them for married couples who plan on breeding.

The XO and Engineer, Tripp, ends up befriending one of these Cogenitors. He teaches it how to read. Tells it that it has unalienable rights. Feeds it standard Western civilization free world drivel. Coming to the conclusion that it has no rights in this society, the Cogenitor asks Captain Archer for political asylum. Archer refuses, since this would essentially cause a rift in human/Vissian relations.

What happens? The Cogenitor, realizing that its situation is hopeless, ends up committing suicide. Not only has Tripp's interference caused a diplomatic incident and the death of an alien, it has also prohibited a couple from conceiving a child.

The moral? It isn't our place to judge or correct. When we interfere, we cause damage. We shouldn't expect or attempt to get other cultures/nations to conform to Western standards of life.

[TNP]

Just to add another thought to the fire (so to speak)...

Islam started in 610, just about 1400 years ago. Now look at what was happening with Christianity in the year 1400. Bet lots of people considered the Church a religion of hate then too. And some still are.

[BigDaddyAmin]

@TNP

Christianity was also illegal in the Roman Empire for the first of its three-hundred years. Unlike Islam which spread rapidly thanks to attacking the weakest frontiers of the Byzantine Empire, which was already having issues due to internal politics.

[TiredEwok]

To kind of go along with my original rant here:

Recently I made a friend with this kid ('kid' used as he's not much older than my 19 year old son) who was complaining about how the state he lives in has allowed the first Syrian refuges in. During his ignorance-fueled rant, he made mention of how it is okay because he and his friends all have guns and how they're all "tactical". I get that he was trying to impress upon me the fact that they could take care of themselves if needed(or so he says, I kind of have doubts about that as this is not the set of Red Dawn), but it really just kind of sounds like something some guy pretending to be former military might use as a pick up line to get some drunk girl at a bar into his bed.

"I was SpecOps in the (insert branch of military here). I am totally tactical, baby."

Part of me wishes I had called him out on that. Ah well.

[Arkandel]

@Apu If it makes it any different claims to badassery are pretty common online as well. It's just an easy thing to say, particularly if someone's self esteem isn't that rock-solid.

If I had an internet penny for each time some guy on a MU* would talk about how he's a fifth degree black belt or go on and on about his detailed knowledge of firearms - on public channels if course, just so everyone gets to witness it - I could have bought an internet pizza by now. With extra cheese.

[TiredEwok]

@Arkandel

Oh, I know that such claims are not uncommon online. Definitely been around long enough to have seen that more than once. I just kind of find it... I don't know. not amusing. Not annoying. Not quite sure how to put it.

[Arkandel]

My standing theory is that while some people who take part in a hobby as nerdy as this and sink many hours of their weeks into a MUSH still detest being perceived as nerds. So this is their way of differentiating between themselves and regular monitor jockeys.

I'm neither amused nor annoyed unless it gets in the way or goes too far at least for my tastes. For instance I found it frustrating on TR that to play a cop you had to know the jargon and use it extensively, including emergency codes, badge numbers and the such. That was too much, and as silly as requiring a working knowledge of nmap to play a hacker.

Basically I generally don't care who is what out there until it interferes with my pretendy funtimes. Otherwise if someone happens to be a real-life biker badass motherfucker who's also a sixth dan judoka hey, more power to them.

[SG]

@Arkandel This is how mush hacking should work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qgehH3kEQ

[Arkandel]

I LOVE that video.

I just wish I could say for sure it's intentionally funny.

[Misadventure]

TR didn't even know what their badges LOOKED like.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Arkandel said:

I'm neither amused nor annoyed unless it gets in the way or goes too far at least for my tastes. For instance I found it frustrating on TR that to play a cop you had to know the jargon and use it extensively, including emergency codes, badge numbers and the such. That was too much, and as silly as requiring a working knowledge of nmap to play a hacker.

In my experience, the fake Armchair Generals are the worst about this stuff. The handful of players with actual, long-term military experience I've encountered didn't get up in arms about details so much (or at least understood, 'Meh, game' better than the dudes who mostly just masturbated to Call of Duty in their spare time). They'd sometimes play technical details other players wouldn't, but if it got overbearing they seemed chill about not.

[Arkandel]

@Misadventure said:

TR didn't even know what their badges LOOKED like.

Oh, I remember some channel calls. There were times the dispatcher was saying things which were supposed to make sense - and we were expected to respond in the proper format - where I was just rolling my eyes.

[mietze]

Military/Ex-Military people seem to fall 50/50 on the chill factor, but the most screamy obnoxious "military" people do seem to be wannabes if you ask them questions about military life that's not super wikipediable and they stumble.

But I dunno. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, because having grown up in the military I know that for sure there are a lot of bad/mean/stupid people in it along with all the normal folks, so it's not like they couldn't have served but just been a moron.

For a few years I helped to moderate a non-racist non-right wing prepper site. I know what you mean about the armchair John Waynes. If only I'd been there with my gun I would have saved the day shitheads. I find it tiresome. No person with half a brain in their head and firearms training and a lick of common sense thinks that if only they had been there with their CCW they would have stopped the theater shooter or any of that shit. So if someone is swinging their balls around on that, it has more to do with making THEMSELVES feel better/safer than anything else. I don't blame people. It's a lot easier to lie to yourself that you'd be a hero than to face the unknown.

[Autumn]

Most people are reluctant to accept that they aren't safe. Almost all of us have something that we cling to in the (often unvoiced, sometimes even unconsidered) belief that if we do, it'll keep us safe. If we go to church every Sunday. If we lock our doors at night. If we give generously to the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association. If we vote for (fill in name of party here). Whatever; most of us have at least one, often more.

People who say things like "if only I'd been there I could have stopped him" are usually wrong, but I don't hold that against them -- most people who think they'll react usefully in the face of a serious disruption of their belief in their own safety are wrong. My mother was like that -- she was so convinced if she did the right thing that she'd stay healthy and happy, that when she lost the use of an arm and a leg she simply could not accept it, and spent the rest of her life wondering what she'd done wrong. If you can keep calm enough to do anything useful when someone's shooting up a theater that you're inside, you're well ahead of most people.

[AmishRakeFight]

@Misadventure I played a police PC on TR for a hot minute. There was more than one I AM THE ULTIMATE SOLDIERCOP character that couldn't figure out the most basic shit about military service or working for any sort of LEO.

Like, shit that a brain damaged house cat could Google. They were in general competition with the players that Googled terminology only once and vomited up any term that could remember like the house cat had speech aphasia post brain damaging stroke.

[Ganymede]

@AmishRakeFight said:

@Misadventure I played a police PC on TR for a hot minute. There was more than one I AM THE ULTIMATE SOLDIERCOP character that couldn't figure out the most basic shit about military service or working for any sort of LEO.

In my defense, my ultimate soldiercop never pretended to be in the military or anything but a miniature alcoholic with a penchant for breaking heads. And she was a nifty shot with a pistol.