@Arkandel You tell me, go to any superhero game and see if the OC's can be created as strong as the FC's.
My experience is no.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
That's the unfortunate thing about DC and DC games. I've run my fair share of them and OCs generally don't work on the Justice League level. Not that they couldn't it's just that when you start dealing with Superman and Batman you almost have to start thinking in the abstract and that gets touchy when you start considering player made characters.
Marvel also benefits from their characters having a better focus on what they can do where as in DC you start getting characters that can do everything.
I've been tempted to try a DC game focused on the Teen Titans or Young Justice where the character power level and focus is a bit more even. Or something like the Earth-2 Planetfall story where the heroes are forced to find a New Earth to start over with all characters kind of being OCs but being able to take on FC mantles. At any rate I think any DC game would need a focus. I've tried running DC games where everything was allowed and it rarely went well. Generally the game just became Gotham focused anyway so that's probably the best route for any DC game, make it Gotham-centric.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin said in Marvel: 1963:
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
It's a lot to overcome. I'd love to see the Marvel world brought to life in a game, the 60's is interesting also, but I'd prefer it if the FC's weren't available for play and people created their own characters and stories. If there was ever a universe that had room for OC's, it's Marvel's.
I'm not sure why Marvel has more room than DC or other universes.
In any case, I think the niche theme will probably help the people who do play focus on characterization and how to interpret characters.
But I am also a really big fan of alterante realities and stuff, so maybe that's just my jam.
There's a /huge/ difference in power between FC's and what is available for OC's in the DC universe. Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, they are huge power wise and there is no chance for an OC to be the same power level as them. Even the rest of the Justice League has nothing to really step up with except for possible Captain Atom and a few others... which are just more FC's. Not even gonna touch Batman here.
Marvel's got some pretty powerful beings, but they're not on Earth most the time, so the big bads aren't always flying around and doing things every day. The most iconic for Marvel are people like Captain America (or used to be), The X-Men, Fantastic Four, and spider-man who are powerful but not unapproachable by OC's.
So in the DC universe OC's are generally even /worse/ off than Marvel when it comes to having OC's be relevant. The power gap is less a thing for Marvel OC's on most games (Strong people in Marvel toss around 100 tons, not counting a few outliers. Strong people in DC toss around hundreds of thousands of tons).
That's what I mean.
I was going to make a list of the first ten ridiculously powered Marvel characters I could think of, but I reconsidered because essentially you´re saying you think Marvel has better possibilities for OCs because DC's heroes are too strong and OCs don't reach those levels.
My response to that is: so what? That has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the possibility for OCs exists. Not to mention that given that the vast majority of superhero / comic book games are consent-only, the power disparity is essentially window dressing. Your character is as effective as needed to tell a good story--you know, like in the comics, i.e. the reason why Batman is ever considered capable of taking on Superman, for example.
It really just kind of feels like you're saying "why bother if I can't make my OC as strong as Superman or Wonder Woman", which I personally think is an absolutely backwards way of approaching this discussion.
I'm not saying you mean to say that, but that's what it reads like.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
@Coin You're choosing to miss my original point then:
If the FC's are 'Featured' /and/ more 'Powerful' than any OC can EVER be, then what is the point of trying to be involved as an OC?
It's just another reason why FC's and OC's don't really mix.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Arkandel You tell me, go to any superhero game and see if the OC's can be created as strong as the FC's.
I was talking in general - I've relatively little experience in superhero MU* so I can't say what the norm is. What I am saying is that if we begin with the assertion that OCs can't be as cool/powerful/special as FCs then of course OCs won't be as cool/powerful/special as FCs.
The way to fix that is to allow them to be.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin You're choosing to miss my original point then:
If the FC's are 'Featured' /and/ more 'Powerful' than any OC can EVER be, then what is the point of trying to be involved as an OC?
Telling a story with the character you want to play. Power levels have nothing to do with it. The word 'Featured' is just a descriptor to indicate they are canon characters from the source; it does not, typically, indicate they are "more important" in any official capacity other than to indicate that other people may want to play them and if you are going to, please be active.
It's just another reason why FC's and OC's don't really mix.
In your experience. In mine, they do. You keep saying they don't as if it's a universal truth, but it's not. I can say with certainty that I have seen people play FCs and OCs interchangeably and together on games and enjoy it. That is proof that it can happen. That you haven't is not proof that it can't.
P.S. I once played a Skrull Green Lantern. So. You know.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
@Coin The fact that people STILL play on Brave New World and Haven means people WILL play anywhere. It has no weight at all.
I can play anything on any freeform place if I wanted to, just because you played a Skrull Green Lantern somewhere doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of thing.
We're talking in circles now, so I'll just say that my experiences do not in any way resemble yours. The games I have tried to play on, are not magical worlds of equality where OC's are just as in demand as FC's for RP and scenes and plots, apparently you have found this magical world.
Give me the address so I can see for myself please.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin The fact that people STILL play on Brave New World and Haven means people WILL play anywhere. It has no weight at all.
I can play anything on any freeform place if I wanted to, just because you played a Skrull Green Lantern somewhere doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of thing.
We're talking in circles now, so I'll just say that my experiences do not in any way resemble yours. The games I have tried to play on, are not magical worlds of equality where OC's are just as in demand as FC's for RP and scenes and plots, apparently you have found this magical world.
Give me the address so I can see for myself please.
[sigh] Now who's missing the point?
Look, I get it, you've had a horrible experience on superhero games because you wanted to play OCs and no one you played with gave a shit. But your experiences are not the totality of all experiences, and my point is that you present them as such. That's it.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
@Coin And my point is that your experiences do not represent the totality of anything /either/.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin And my point is that your experiences do not represent the totality of anything /either/.
But I didn't express them as such. I did not say "OCs and FCs can always interact on the same level in every game". I said, "it's possible, I've seen people enjoy it and do it".
You, on the other hand, present it as an impossibility.
There is a difference.
here's the thing: if you're playing an OC on a superhero game, a hero that can't be as strong or cool as Superman, but Superman is actively played?
What are the odds you are ever going to get that cool moment of being the guy to Win The Day, if Superman can just fly up and shoot bricks out of his eyes to repair a wall?
@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:
here's the thing: if you're playing an OC on a superhero game, a hero that can't be as strong or cool as Superman, but Superman is actively played?
What are the odds you are ever going to get that cool moment of being the guy to Win The Day, if Superman can just fly up and shoot bricks out of his eyes to repair a wall?
Tons. You know why? 'Cuz Superman can't be everywhere at once, and 'cuz Superman's player isn't going to be online 24/7 waiting to snatch victory away from you like a malevolent dick, and most of all, because superhero games tend to be very story-driven and consent-based, which means it's relatively easy to tailor a scene in a way where you can save the day.
God damn, this question is silly. It's like asking "how can any character in DC comics ever save the day if Superman can just [... etc.]" Gee, I don't know, but it sure does seem to happen.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
@Coin Uh, your face is silly, but you don't see me bringing THAT up.
And sure. I could also sit in my room and draw comics tailored around a character named Squirrel Girl that make her undefeatable. The point of playing on a game is often to experience story spun out by someone else, in a more personal and interactive way than reading a book, right?
It's definitely not impossible to find that tailored for whoever on a game, sure. But is it likely there will be plenty of times where Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, or Green Lantern show up and save the day during that storytelling? Yup.
@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin Uh, your face is silly, but you don't see me bringing THAT up.
And sure. I could also sit in my room and draw comics tailored around a character named Squirrel Girl that make her undefeatable. The point of playing on a game is often to experience story spun out by someone else, in a more personal and interactive way than reading a book, right?
It's definitely not impossible to find that tailored for whoever on a game, sure. But is it likely there will be plenty of times where Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, or Green Lantern show up and save the day during that storytelling? Yup.
This argument has the same problem @Lithium's does: I'm just saying it's possible. I never said it was super common or anything like that. But, shocker, our hobby requires digging through some coal to find a diamond--be it WoD, CofD, Star Wars, Superheroes, or Haven.
I mean, you might be digging forever in Haven, but I would never take away your hope.
I might laugh a little.
But I wouldn't take away your hope.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
You people are making me agree with @Coin so I hate you.
But if the argument "Superman could solve this so why am I needed?" was valid at all then DC wouldn't be in the business of making any other comics. The guy can solve everything.
For that matter a vast number of superheroes could solve issues less powerful ones couldn't. There are few enemies say, Spider-man or Daredevil have that Dr. Strange or Thor couldn't handle.
So what?
@Arkandel While I am more than willing to accede coin's point that this is not IMPOSSIBLE, I don't think I got my point across.
The issue isn't: I'll never be as good as Superman at solving these crises, so why bother?
The issue is: I came out to help with all these crises and in the end Superman just punches a nuclear bomb to death and we all go for shwarma.
I think any OC can do their own story with any willing to go along and still have fun. That may not be the point.
I think in light of open plots that any can join, the OCs have no point in meta if superman can show up and save the day. Sure they can still go play street level by themselves, but maybe they'd like to feel a part of the game more than sandboxing.
I think the hobby could benefit by a terminology shift. "Featured Character" and "Original Character" are not antonyms. You have Original chars and Canon chars and either type can be featured or not. Contrast a sheriff in a Wild West game with "Squirrel Girl" or some other low-powered 2-bit comic character.
I just helped them set up the code, so I have no insight into staff policy, but I saw nothing on Marvel 1963 that would preclude you from making up a powerful original character.
@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:
The issue is: I came out to help with all these crises and in the end Superman just punches a nuclear bomb to death and we all go for shwarma.
But that's been the case in all MU* since forever. Are level 5 characters redundant because there are level 9 characters around?
@Arkandel IDK, you tell me. I lost interest in the argument.
You people are making me agree with @Coin so I hate you.
But if the argument "Superman could solve this so why am I needed?" was valid at all then DC wouldn't be in the business of making any other comics. The guy can solve everything.
For that matter a vast number of superheroes could solve issues less powerful ones couldn't. There are few enemies say, Spider-man or Daredevil have that Dr. Strange or Thor couldn't handle.
So what?
