As I said, I'm not addressing the specific person's actions, which provide context and some chance of sussing out actual motivations or attitudes.
TL;DR
"I'm sorry X was taken that way" does not equal insincere all by itself.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
As I said, I'm not addressing the specific person's actions, which provide context and some chance of sussing out actual motivations or attitudes.
TL;DR
"I'm sorry X was taken that way" does not equal insincere all by itself.
How one phrases things counts. It's relevant. There are ways of conveying, "I'm sorry, I did not intend to offend you." "I'm sorry you took offense," is not one of them.
So you have a hot button.
You assume something, and won't change that assumption if told otherwise?
That's on you, not the English language.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
As I said, I'm not addressing the specific person's actions, which provide context and some chance of sussing out actual motivations or attitudes.
TL;DR
"I'm sorry X was taken that way" does not equal insincere all by itself.
...yeah man, no one is saying that.
I don't mean offense, but ironically you're the one getting hung up on a sentence, rather than looking at the context of the situation. You're getting fixated on the idea that one misplaced word means everyone will read you as insincere in a completely different setting and it genuinely bothers you that you imagine this might be the case, but c'mon man, context. Most reasonable people will examine the events around the flubbed sentence with you and let you make your case, and then everyone moves on (eventually). That's not what happened here.
Tek outed Zyrus on objectively taboo behavior, behavior that major consensus states he definitely shouldn't continue. Rather than give a rational excuse, he was just trying to deflect the attention away from his own actions and cast doubt on Tek's perception of events. Luckily, this shit is so blatant that it's clearly just a desperation move on his part, but that doesn't mean that more insidious examples of this tactic don't exist and that is what everyone is getting upset about, not just that he phrased his apology in a way that can be misinterpreted. Nobody is arguing that point.
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@Coin said in The 100: The Mush:
It's like saying, "I do apologize you fell down," after you trip someone accidentally. Mother fucker, apologize for tripping me, not for my inability to catch myself adequately.
No, fuck you.
Happy birthday to the ground!
@Kanye-Qwest said in The 100: The Mush:
@Coin said in The 100: The Mush:
It's like saying, "I do apologize you fell down," after you trip someone accidentally. Mother fucker, apologize for tripping me, not for my inability to catch myself adequately.
No, fuck you.
Happy birthday to the ground!
@Wizz said in The 100: The Mush:
@Misadventure
...yeah man, no one is saying that.
@ThatGuyThere said in The 100: The Mush:
@Zyrus said in The 100: The Mush:
I do apologize that was what it was taken as, just saying that wasn't my intention.
@Surreality explained it better then I will. I will just comment that this is the type of non-pology that is my opinion is worse then saying nothing.
If you really want to apology do so with out qualifier. That is an apology, the above is deflection in an apology skin suit. It might play well in the media as we see celebs and corporations do it all the time but no one is fooled.
That is what I replied to.
It is the only thing I was attempting to address.
@Misadventure This actually is a thing. Not a 'hot button' or personal peeve.
So you are in fact asserting that you cannot ever, EVER, say I am sorry you took it that way without being insincere?
Correct? No other possible meaning or circumstance?
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
@Wizz said in The 100: The Mush:
@Misadventure
...yeah man, no one is saying that.@ThatGuyThere said in The 100: The Mush:
@Zyrus said in The 100: The Mush:
** I do apologize that was what it was taken as, just saying that wasn't my intention.**
@Surreality explained it better then I will. I will just comment that this is the type of non-pology that is my opinion is worse then saying nothing.
If you really want to apology do so with out qualifier. That is an apology, the above is deflection in an apology skin suit. It might play well in the media as we see celebs and corporations do it all the time but no one is fooled.That is what I replied to.
It is the only thing I was attempting to address.
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
To give you my personal perspective, I think you should not apologize for something you
don'tintend to do again. If I have a turn of phrase that encompasses what I mean in a reasonable way, I'm okay with it. I won't necessarily be changing it in general, though I might in a particular circumstance. I might still express regret that it didn't convey the message to someone.
Emphasis and strike mine. You are talking about a completely different thing that no one is actually arguing with you about.
@Misadventure If you want to actually apologize for your own actions by doing so, yes, because you aren't apologizing for your own actions when that's what you're saying.
http://jezebel.com/sorry-not-sorry-how-to-non-apologize-5993101
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
So you are in fact asserting that you cannot ever, EVER, say I am sorry you took it that way without being insincere?
Correct? No other possible meaning or circumstance?
There will be people who will never accept an apology, period.
There are people who think if you give any sort of explanation, at all, you are insincere.
I have learned there is no point arguing with those people. However, I don't think any of them are in this thread.
If he had said: 'I didn't mean that, but I'm sorry it came across that way. Next time I'll try to be more clear in what I mean.' that may be accepted. If he hadn't, by nature of his other posts (and behavior on the game itself) pushed an image of gives-no-fucks-about-other-people, what he said may have been accepted.
It's context in this case, but one of the sad truths of the real world is that there will be people who will never accept any apology you make. Those people are generally utter assholes themselves. But again, none are in this thread. His apology came across as insincere not because of the wording used, but because of his overall behavior around it.
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
So you are in fact asserting that you cannot ever, EVER, say I am sorry you took it that way without being insincere?
Correct? No other possible meaning or circumstance?
Now you're introducing a colloquial use of a phrase to mean something other than what it literally means.
Many people say, "I'm sorry that [...]," with regards to something that is not on them to apologize for, when what they mean is, "it is unfortunate that [...]". But that's, in my experience, exclusively relegated to the words "I'm sorry". I've never heard of anyone use "apologize" the same way. It's also not an apology; it is at best a sign of empathy and at worst, well... this whole mess, depending on context.
Also, if you are not actually sorry (not in the it is unfortunate but rather in the I regret my actions meaning of the word), then don't pretend it's an apology. It isn't.
At best, it's an admittance of regret that your own words weren't chosen more carefullyto avoid the backlash that you probably feel is undue.
More to the point, most people don't care if you regret how they interpreted it; they care about your actual intent, so a direct apology, instead of an apology about the consequences thereof, is much better and less likely to cause people to see a deflection of blame.
So, actually, yes. Within the context of an apology, don't apologize for other people interpreting what yous aid wrong. Apologize for expressing it inadequately or in a manner that could be misinterpreted. Or don't apologize at all, if you believe you were right and they're being melodramatic or whatever.
(Using the royal 'you', here, obviously.)
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
So you are in fact asserting that you cannot ever, EVER, say I am sorry you took it that way without being insincere?
Correct? No other possible meaning or circumstance?
Respectfully, I'm with @surreality on this one. If you say "I'm sorry you took it that way", you're ultimately saying "there was nothing wrong with my action, but I am sorry for your choice in interpretations of my action". Thus, it's tricky, but it's not an apology for doing anything. It's sympathy that someone else chose to interpret the situation incorrectly, which has nothing to do with the apologizer at all. It's not an apology.
So IMO there's no way to say "I'm sorry you took it that way" is an apology without some other apologetic statement tacked onto the end that you're actually apologizing for, like: "I'm sorry, I didnt think about how this might affect you."
And there are the answers.
Yes, you cannot say this phrase and be taken to be sincere, even if as @Coin says they care only about your intent.
Ta da.
Look up the way using niggardly ended a government officials career sometime.
Thanks all !
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure You're not yourself when you're hungry. Here, have a snickers.
Slap me, I've never seen so much semantic furore over the particular arrangement of 5-10 words before.
Can we agree that he's an arsehole and move the fuck along?
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
Look up the way using niggardly ended a government officials career sometime.
That strawman must be defending both the apples and the oranges as the resident scarecrow.
@Kestrel said in The 100: The Mush:
Slap me, I've never seen so much semantic furore over the particular arrangement of 5-10 words before.
Can we agree that he's an arsehole and move the fuck along?
I think the thing is that while @Misadventure has been known to be a little pedantic and sometimes quite literal and particularly nitpicky, he's never been an asshole. This, too, doesn't qualify him as an asshole to me; just surprisingly dense on this issue, given my experiences.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
I was thinking they meant the original person of the complaint.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
@Misadventure said in The 100: The Mush:
As I said, I'm not addressing the specific person's actions, which provide context and some chance of sussing out actual motivations or attitudes.
TL;DR
"I'm sorry X was taken that way" does not equal insincere all by itself.
How one phrases things counts. It's relevant. There are ways of conveying, "I'm sorry, I did not intend to offend you." "I'm sorry you took offense," is not one of them.
