Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story
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It's not an easy thing to balance.
Most of us want to play a Jedi because of reasons @Arkandel stated. In my case... 18+ years MU*ing and I've never gotten the opportunity. While making it a vote by playerbase does still have favoritism, it at least increases my odds because on past SW games, I've never been close enough to Staff to be chosen.
But I also don't want a game that's All Jedi All the Time (unless it's like, a specific Jedi Academy game which now that I think about it could be pretty awesome).
I'm totally happy with my spy/pilot on FoH. I'll keep playing her even if I get to play a Force Sensitive alt. I think that's the main worry a lot of places have: if we don't limit things somehow, we'll have a game of FUs and nothing else.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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I still think the best way to deal with Jedi is to allow them but make it cost something.
I don't think Saga really works well for SW so not commenting on it specifically since my experience is limited to two table top campaigns, but D6 also had issue in this regard though in the AD+D mage sort of way, at Cgen level Jedi were gimped compared to everyone else then as xp rose they dominated.
I think the key would be to find a way in the system to make it cost enough to deter the players with out costing so much it causes them to be avoided completely, because it is Starwars you needs the light sabers even if i would never play a Force using character they need to be around. -
@Auspice said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
But I also don't want a game that's All Jedi All the Time (unless it's like, a specific Jedi Academy game which now that I think about it could be pretty awesome).
Yeah that was the foundation of my game. Based on the Chu'unthor Jedi training ship. it really worked. There were tiered apps to play Padawans, Jedi or Masters (anyone could app them, but you did have certain requirements to providing RP if you apped in a full Knight or Master). People could play any non-Jedi like thing they wanted as well, including the crew of the Chu'unthor and other roles on various planets and a lot of people had their Jedi and a non-FS alt.
I think it was pretty awesome. But again, it requires certain narrative set up. Fires of Hope is set in a time with few Jedi left. Now, one could play with the narrative of the sector of space they're in and say there is a cadre of surviving and in-hiding Jedi and allow FS openly through that (as well as just base Force Sensitives) and such. There are lots of narrative ideas to make it work.
I do think though if you're going to play in that period, you either play with the narrative to make it work or you just don't allow it at all and leave Force users as NPCs.
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@Ganymede With the base rules, a Force User with Skill Focus: UtF and Deflect at level 1 is very nearly functionally immune to blaster fire from a single person. If the Force User takes Force Training at level 1 instead, then at level 2, they are very nearly functionally immune to blaster fire, and can use their Force Powers to attack Defenses with what is effectively +8-10 higher "attack roll" than anyone else can at that level (since they're using a skill with Skill Focus). At level 3, when they take Block too, they become functionally immune to melee attacks from a single person too.
Sure, they're still vulnerable to grenades, flamethrowers, and a few other options (assuming they never took Force Shield, then they're pretty set there too), but until level 9ish, when Attacks and Defenses start to catch up with Skill Focused skills, they're still well ahead of non-FUs. (Oops, @Tempest covered a lot of this, but I'll add to say that I don't believe that it should require multiple opponents to take down a single same-level character--that's pretty much the definition of OP.)
I believe that the restrictions on FUs on Fires of Hope are not because of OPness (the Skill Focus house rule fixes that for Jedi, pilots, political folks, and just about anyone who can "attack" with a skill), but because of theme--a few years before A New Hope, I certainly don't think there should be many Force Users around, and even fewer trained Jedi.
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@Ganymede said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
@Warma-Sheen said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
This is the problem with Saga. If everyone starts at 4 and you have force users with SF: UtF, force users are OP. But if you don't allow SF:UtF, they're easy targets. And the higher levels you go, the worse UtF will scale.
So, how exactly are Force Users OP'd in SAGA? I want to understand a contrary perspective.
In early levels with SF: UtF, their skill rolls easily blow through similarly leveled opponents defenses easily. And at later levels it can't keep up.
Edit: Yeah, what @Seraphim73 said... Lag.
But you are right about the skills. Its just that no one ever bothers to use those enough to matter. Its mostly laziness on the scene runner's part. Or the fear of PCs failing. Couldn't tell you the last time I saw a scene where PCs just failed. If skill checks were used to greater effect it would limit the effectiveness of Jedis greatly.
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Delightfully enough (because I agree that non-combat skills are way underutilized on most games--not just most Star Wars games or most Saga games), the first plot-scene on Fires of Hope had absolutely zero attack rolls in it, and a great many skill and attribute checks. I feel that I can brag about this because I was not involved in any way, shape, or form.
I do agree that there should be more scenes where PCs fail--I would love to see PCs fail about 15-25% of the time and get a neutral result another 15-20% of the time.
Edited from Fires of Heaven to Fires of Hope, because I do that way too often and Faceless is a jerk.
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@Seraphim73 said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
the first plot-scene on Fires of Heaven had absolutely zero attack rolls in it, and a great many skill and attribute checks
Fires of Heaven, huh? What's that game like? Is it a lot of fun? Fantasy game, right? Angels and all that cool stuff? I bet it's a blast.
Yes, I am being cheeky.
MSB free since 24/3/2018
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@Faceless said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
Fires of Heaven, huh? What's that game like? Is it a lot of fun? Fantasy game, right?
The first place my brain went was WoT, but that's only because Robert Jordan broke my spirit in oh so many ways.
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@Faceless There are angels.
I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe. They live on the moon of Iego, I think.
Edit:
#L337PickupSkills
#InvisibleMissionaryBaby
#ShittyDialogueDelete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
I was in that scene. I can confirm zero combat rolls.
Though one dude did trip a trap and some of us got shrapnel'd.
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@Ghost said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
@Faceless There are angels.
I've heard the deep space pilots talk about them. They're the most beautiful creatures in the universe. They live on the moon of Iego, I think.
Well played, @Ghost. Well played.
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What's really important is, is this run by the The 100 staffers, or isn't it? It's the same domain name, and they left ads themselves, elsegame, promoting it, yet someone else is advertising for it, here.
Anyone know?
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As a nonplayer, the scuttle I have heard is that someone from the 100 is working on the wiki, but is not game staff.
Bing someone who simply just fucking let go of it with those two who ran 100, I don't think that they deserve Boogeyman status. One of them working on a wiki does not equate to plot dominance. I wouldn't avoid this game based on this scuttle, even if it is true.
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@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
The first place my brain went was WoT, but that's only because Robert Jordan broke my spirit in oh so many ways.
I never played there. I knew several of their staff and players though.
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Both Blu and I play on Fires of Hope, and Blu is indeed wiki-staff, but that is her only role on Staff (and she only has a Staffbit so that she can get +requests regarding the wiki), and I have no role at all on Staff.
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@Seraphim73 said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
Both Blu and I play on Fires of Hope, and Blu is indeed wiki-staff, but that is her only role on Staff (and she only has a Staffbit so that she can get +requests regarding the wiki), and I have no role at all on Staff.
I do know she's also been helping with the grid? At least based on things she herself has said.
But still, that doesn't mean anything in the realm of plot crafting/dominance. I just want to mention it since, well, you sometimes get people on these here forums who would find out and go 'omg why didn't you mention this what else are you hiding?!'
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Seraphim73 said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
Both Blu and I play on Fires of Hope, and Blu is indeed wiki-staff, but that is her only role on Staff (and she only has a Staffbit so that she can get +requests regarding the wiki), and I have no role at all on Staff.
Good to see you two roleplaying. If I ever break my self exile and log in there, I'll ping you two so you know I'm around.
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@Auspice said in Fires of Hope: A Star Wars Story:
I do know she's also been helping with the grid? At least based on things she herself has said.
But still, that doesn't mean anything in the realm of plot crafting/dominance. I just want to mention it since, well, you sometimes get people on these here forums who would find out and go 'omg why didn't you mention this what else are you hiding?!'
Oh yeah... right. We both also helped lay out and describe the grid so that Hssiss could focus on getting the code on point again and work on story. That will likely continue as the grid expands.
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I've actually been getting a lot of zen from designing wiki's for games. Working on about 3 of them at the moment.
If anyone ever needs wiki help (specifically for wikidot), it brings me joy, and I'm happy to do it with or without access to +requests for wiki stuff. @Avarice just hates managing the wiki and doing icons, so I said I was happy to do it.And yes, I also do some grid work now and then because... it also brings me joy. Must be all those re-watchings of Field of Dreams (if you build it, they will come).
I have no more input than any other player on game decisions.
Just to be totally transparent since it has come up.
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@GirlCalledBlu For the record, I also don't enjoy building grids.
