Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed)

[surreality]

@Arkandel Fair enough! Like I said, working from home, this is one of those things I have literally never had to deal with, so I have no idea what even the basic guidelines beyond 'no exposed genitals or super lewd poses' I see on other wikis.

[Ghost]

@bored I'm saying this to be constructive, not hostile, but I keep rereading your posts and I think you need to take a break. Not necessarily from the hobby, but perhaps this thread.

This stuff isn't that important.

[ThatGuyThere]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

New question: The majority of reference imagery available for a variety of things -- a lot of it art -- includes painted bare breasts.

I would avoid bare breasts without warning no mater how tastefully done because different workplaces have difference standards, at one of my past jobs someone had to talk to HR because they were viewing Renaissance art in the break room during lunch, for a college coarse but someone notices nudity over her shoulder and filled a complaint. Yes the complaint was laughed at by those who handled it but it still became a part of the personnel file. So I would put a warning about the possibility of something being NSFW on any link leading to a page with the art. Or a general on the main page saying hey art like this is prevalent on this site if this will get you into trouble wait til you are home.

[surreality]

@ThatGuyThere That is very helpful, actually -- thank you. That even specifically addresses the whole 'but it's paintings... ' thing. Thankfully, gallery sections and so on are tucked away in tabs, but it sounds like it's probably a good call to do a 'keep those in the hidden tab, too, plz' category.

[Misadventure]

I really want to post from work that maybe safe for work isn't a major concern when you shouldn't be playing from work.

However, I have ocean related stuff to wrangle and show to the OP, so I won't.

[surreality]

This is totally not on topic, but... it would probably surprise you how many people play on Shang from work.

Or maybe not.

But seriously, I would not want to be in that neighboring cubicle, you know?

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Arkandel said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

@surreality Well, it's not porn, but for most of us it's not safe for work either. But that's my point - very little is safe for work.

Safe for work is a concern for me, too.

It would also, as a newb, make me wonder what the purpose of the game was (like, am I playing a sex game?), if it was on the front page. Maybe that's not fair, but it's a first impression. Art deeper in the wiki or on char pages I wouldn't care aobut.

[surreality]

The only actual front page art (other than a lot of gilded picture frames and an old map background image) is this, which is people-less. So that at least is safe!

...I hope? I suppose if someone had a very flowers and friendly lovey dovey family sort of workplace the skulls might be troublesome, but there's no nudity. Would not recommend browsing while running a daycare, however.

[bored]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

That wasn't what I was in any way trying to imply. Dude was never any kind of sexual predator, just a very mean-spirited troll. There's a link to his trolling craziness... somewhere in scrollback at this point.

OK. I clicked through the one link you gave and skimmed a couple lines and there was something-something about rape (and his handle is shang related). I'm not about to read the post history of some random dude I've never heard of who happened to upvote me to spite some other person he doesn't like. I don't care about your drama with him! That being said, your whole 'this guy is bad and he likes your opinion so you should rethink your opinion' is dumb. Full stop. Hitler (yep, why not) liked dogs, or so I have heard. His positive view of dogs does not cause me to re-evaluate my own. It's not valid or persuasive logic and indicates a lack of ability to argue on the merits.

And quite frankly? Yes, you're annoying the shit out of me today because instead of actually getting to work on the game, I've had to spend a pile of time playing whack-a-mole addressing all of the worst case scenarios and fear-based assumptions

I haven't made you do anything, you're spending your time as you choose. If you think I'm just a troll, the proper response is to ignore me, which you've failed spectacularly at despite numerous opportunities. You've re-engaged once I've stopped at least twice (including very start of this whole thing). And if I'm 'forcing' you to address issues... sorry that the hobby has issues? I didn't create them, and I hate to break it to you but you'd have to address them at some point anyway.

you keep shooting off like you filled a potato gun with buckshot and pointed it at the thread. This is the kind of stuff I am talking about:

Hint: this is you re-opening another can of shit, just for the sake of it. You've given up on one line of argument (me accusing you of horrible corruption) and just picked another, for the purpose of... I dunno. I thought we'd actually come near civility with the last couple posts. Guess that's not satisfying for you?

...seriously. Buckshot. I could keep going here, but I think maybe you'll begin to see my point.

No, because It's seriously hyperbole.

You quote me 4 times without finding even more than 3 actual complaints. My 'buckshot' approach boils down to: 1) I don't like aliens/Cthulhu. 2) Cthlulu spawn are probably going to be most of the playerbase which takes it further away from the setting for me. 3) Don't split your population (which, again, is good advice and not a hostile criticism.) The funny thing is you've actually addressed all these issues pretty well, and if you left it to that, your thread wouldn't be such a tire fire.

This is not being defensive.

I'm sure.

It is being annoyed as hell that instead of waiting a little while to see what the thing is and how much that sucks, you seem eager to begin a bashing based on what you assume it will be and the worst aspects of all of those things. This sticks me in the position of badly explaining shit on the fly that I've already had to budget 2-3 RL months toward getting down in a draft form that I think will be ready for a rough review, and that is a shitty position to be in.

There's a reason I asked folks to not go galavanting down those roads yet: they aren't even leveled, let alone paved, there are no maps or street signs, and the best answers anybody's going to get on those subjects are going to be about as useful as the directions you'd get mumbled out in broken English in a heavy accent by a drunken old coot at the gas station who uses the places where things didn't used to be as their landmarks. (Read: good luck getting anywhere with it.)

Bash it to bits based on what it actually is with wild abandon if you want to. Seriously. Sledge at will when the actual information is available.

Slinging shit around because of what you're afraid something might be is crap, though.

Re: all of this since you're basically saying the same thing a bunch of times:

Look. I get that it's unfinished, but you chose to show off your unfinished project. You can't show it to us, and then fall back on that unfinished status as a shield for criticism. I'm not 'afraid of what it might be', I'm reacting to what I see presently in the context of my MUing experience.

Your requests are not binding on me. You really need to read @ThatGuyThere's post a few times, because it's a nice summary. You don't get to control the discussion in the way you want to control the discussion. I understand that this is distressing to you, but again that reflects more of you having an odd disconnect with the forum than me violating its norms.

Maybe the forum needs a 'No criticism' subforum? Who knows. Anyway. I'm quite willing to be done with this, as I've been many times. Maybe try not accusing me of anything new and we can leave each other alone.

@Ghost Keep defending her, I'm sure sempai will notice you.

[Meg]

Guys. You both have valid points and neither of you are stopping to realize it, maybe. This is one of those times I definitely want the serious safeword or flag thrown on the field or whatever.

And also, because @bored is getting piled on. Not for no reason, but definitely more than they deserve. I mean, Arkandel did the same thing, but he recognized and backed off. Threads are organic; you can contribute what you want. Roz is right in that also, surreality might not want to talk about what you contributed, but now you're talking about it, surr.

Let's put on some blinders and stop responding to each other about this topic, maybe?

(I know it's silly to say, when I am responding on this topic. But, what can you do.)

[Arkandel]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

This is totally not on topic, but... it would probably surprise you how many people play on Shang from work.

It's really easy to play Shang (or any MU*) from work in certain industries; for instance I've got a bunch of consoles open filled with text. One more pointed at a MU*, unless it happens to contain ASCII art or something won't stand out to a random passerby - until of course they stop and actually start to read.

But say, I had a coworker stop and ask me once about Eldritch's (I think) wiki because it had a big blood splat image right on the front page.

It really depends on the company. I've worked in places where as long as you did your job no one really gave a shit if you played Starcraft while stuff was compiling, and I'm aware of businesses where you could be let go over reading your personal e-mail. The onus is on players to know what's okay for their circumstances.

[surreality]

@bored said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

OK. I clicked through the one link you gave and skimmed a couple lines and there was something-something about rape (and his handle is shang related).

REAP, not rape. That is not a typo. Dude would create a character, play for like... two days, then +suicide the character only to repeat the process (endlessly) for like... years. So he got the nickname 'the serial REAPist, because he... kept reaping his characters over and over again. Like it even says in the damn post.

And quite frankly? Yes, you're annoying the shit out of me today because instead of actually getting to work on the game, I've had to spend a pile of time playing whack-a-mole addressing all of the worst case scenarios and fear-based assumptions

I haven't made you do anything, you're spending your time as you choose. If you think I'm just a troll, the proper response is to ignore me, which you've failed spectacularly at despite numerous opportunities. You've re-engaged once I've stopped at least twice (including very start of this whole thing). And if I'm 'forcing' you to address issues... sorry that the hobby has issues? I didn't create them, and I hate to break it to you but you'd have to address them at some point anyway.

No, because It's seriously hyperbole.

You quote me 4 times without finding even more than 3 actual complaints. My 'buckshot' approach boils down to: 1) I don't like aliens/Cthulhu.

And if you had said "I don't like aliens/Cthulhu' instead of 'it's always end of the world plots and Cthulhu (when the latter isn't even a thing)', not a peep. Nope, you went to assumption land.

2. Cthlulu spawn are probably going to be most of the playerbase which takes it further away from the setting for me.

Which, again... the C word is not present. Further? Again, not what was said, and it's right there in the quote: suggestions of staff favoritism or that nobody would have any reason to bother with anything else.

3. Don't split your population (which, again, is good advice and not a hostile criticism.) The funny thing is you've actually addressed all these issues pretty well, and if you left it to that, your thread wouldn't be such a tire fire.

And if people didn't begin with completely ignoring what I asked folks to focus on and didn't insist that a single bar that not every character on the grid would access would be an enormous problem, maybe we wouldn't be here.

This is not being defensive.

I'm sure.

No, I am annoyed as hell.

It is being annoyed as hell that instead of waiting a little while to see what the thing is and how much that sucks, you seem eager to begin a bashing based on what you assume it will be and the worst aspects of all of those things. This sticks me in the position of badly explaining shit on the fly that I've already had to budget 2-3 RL months toward getting down in a draft form that I think will be ready for a rough review, and that is a shitty position to be in.

There's a reason I asked folks to not go galavanting down those roads yet: they aren't even leveled, let alone paved, there are no maps or street signs, and the best answers anybody's going to get on those subjects are going to be about as useful as the directions you'd get mumbled out in broken English in a heavy accent by a drunken old coot at the gas station who uses the places where things didn't used to be as their landmarks. (Read: good luck getting anywhere with it.)

Bash it to bits based on what it actually is with wild abandon if you want to. Seriously. Sledge at will when the actual information is available.

Slinging shit around because of what you're afraid something might be is crap, though.

Re: all of this since you're basically saying the same thing a bunch of times:

Look. I get that it's unfinished, but you chose to show off your unfinished project.

I specifically and explicitly did not show off the project, and stated so clearly. If I was showing off the project, you'd have a link to the wiki. You do not.

I asked three questions based on a series of general criteria, the end. You have not been shown shit other than a logo image, you rampaging jackass.

Honestly? Fuck you, and fuck this.

[Ganymede]

@Meg said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

And also, because @bored is getting piled on. Not for no reason, but definitely more than they deserve.

You think @bored is getting piled on? You must be new here.

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

...I hope? I suppose if someone had a very flowers and friendly lovey dovey family sort of workplace the skulls might be troublesome, but there's no nudity. Would not recommend browsing while running a daycare, however.

Drily, if you're running a day care, pictures of skulls on your computer is the least of your worries this allergy/sickness season.

I like the logo, though. And, for the most part, I think your ideas are pretty spot-on. My wariness is largely a product of ennui.

[surreality]

@Ganymede The logo is up on imgur there if anyone wants it for anything; grab at will. The wiki and MUX have a backup, but they're already otherwise gone.

I was already on my way out the door after the friend jacking me around six ways to Sunday for months, and I'd hoped to get the game theory stuff and whatnot done, up, and available before checking the fuck out to hopefully leave something useful behind, but really, I have no patience for the kind of bullshit going down with all the crazy assumptions and failures of reading comprehension.

If anyone wants to read that as an inability to take criticism, please, have at -- criticize what @bored imagines it absolutely definitely was so totally going to be all you like, or, you know, how much of a cunt I am, I guess -- but I am seriously just done at this juncture.

[Ganymede]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

I was already on my way out the door after the friend jacking me around six ways to Sunday for months, and I'd hoped to get the game theory stuff and whatnot done, up, and available before checking the fuck out to hopefully leave something useful behind, but really, I have no patience for the kind of bullshit going down with all the crazy assumptions and failures of reading comprehension.

I can't imagine why. I mean, it's not like you don't have a full life, hobbies, work, and a whole lot of other rewarding things in your life to spend time on.

That you even bothered to respond substantively is something of a curiosity.

We will likely always be here. At least, I'm pretty sure I will be. If your exit turns out to be a vacation, I'll hold the door open for your return.

[cirim13]

My one complaint to you, @surreality, is I have spent the entire friggin week looking up insane fish abilities and holy cripes there is some fascinating things out there, but nothing I think is entirely apropos for a mu*based power, but how cool would it be to have a character who needs to eat insane amounts of algae for 3-4 weeks of the year but then basically lives on sunshine and has to stay in shallow waters for a year because sunlight...

Aherm. Not sure if you'll have shallow-water people (it doesn't sound like it) but if you did,..nudibranch people. So much colors. Or really, any sea slug. They're so cool.
Anyway, I have spent far too much of my week looking up weird fish and being super excited about them, and I'm pretty sure the classmates who sit behind me are questioning why I have so many creepy fish I look at when I should be doing classwork.

[surreality]

@Ganymede said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

I was already on my way out the door after the friend jacking me around six ways to Sunday for months, and I'd hoped to get the game theory stuff and whatnot done, up, and available before checking the fuck out to hopefully leave something useful behind, but really, I have no patience for the kind of bullshit going down with all the crazy assumptions and failures of reading comprehension.

I can't imagine why. I mean, it's not like you don't have a full life, hobbies, work, and a whole lot of other rewarding things in your life to spend time on.

That you even bothered to respond substantively is something of a curiosity.

We will likely always be here. At least, I'm pretty sure I will be. If your exit turns out to be a vacation, I'll hold the door open for your return.

Honestly... I can't play any more. Heart isn't there for it any more.

While I appreciate that, I don't think it's going to happen. Pretty much the last drop of my patience got expended lately dealing with some RL crap, the friend-in-hobby crap, some RL PTSD crap rearing it's ugly head, the troll managing to push some seriously ugly panic-attack-inspiring buttons without likely ever realizing it, and... frankly, I am just done. Beyond done.

I've probably been done for a while.

Being called out to magically defend against every wrong ever done to anyone in the hobby and justify the worst cliches of themes I'm not even using? Yeah, way so past fucking done, and this made that rather starkly clear to me.

...and I'm sorry, @cirim13. It is not my intent to let anybody down in this. It's something I'd wanted to do for a long time, but I am just... done.

[Ghost]

Weeeeelllp. Looks like Chewlie's Gum guy got what he wanted.

Good luck on you and your friend's 7th Sea game, you lifeless fuck.

[Ganymede]

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

...and I'm sorry, @cirim13. It is not my intent to let anybody down in this. It's something I'd wanted to do for a long time, but I am just... done.

Tell you what.

Gimme what you got. I'll work with @Lisse24, and do what I can to lift the project off the ground. Least I could do.

Sorry, @Thenomain.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

...and I'm sorry, @cirim13. It is not my intent to let anybody down in this. It's something I'd wanted to do for a long time, but I am just... done.

Tell you what.

Gimme what you got. I'll work with @Lisse24, and do what I can to lift the project off the ground. Least I could do.

Sorry, @Thenomain.

Yes, because I know who you're going to ask for code...