Apr 30, 2015, 3:15 AM
@Bennie said:
What I don't get is why divisions exist at all - the conversation is fine, it's the Us or Them that bothers me.
Yes.
Sexual themes in roleplay
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Rape RP, specifically, is an issue when it involves / spills over to people that directly did not consent to it. It is different because of the type of mental impact that dealing with this specific line of RP can do to people, and the stigma PCs who try to ignore the RP receive when they can't deal with it because if your character is such a good person, why are they not...?
Somebody who's been shot during a robbery or something can speak up on this from their perspective, but I'm going to talk about this from the perspective of someone who was raped to try and explain why having to interact with rape RP at all is a problem when my PC murdering someone or character death or murder or whatever other crimes don't bother me.
There are two types of players that play characters that are raped IC. Those who have been raped, and those that have not been raped. Those that have not been raped tend to make light of / poorly portray / say and do things that are really, really, really offensive and hurtful to some of those that fall into the latter category. Watching some idiot essentially MOCK me about one of the most traumatizing things that have ever happened in my life is not something that feels good. It's just not.
Violence is in the theme of these games. Rape (or on this vein, childhood sexual abuse), a type of violence, is not specifically called out in violence. There are many, many, many things that you can use to brutalize a character suitably and get a similar end result to whatever you want -- there is no reason to employ something that is so fucking hard for certain people to deal with. Harm to good ratio here is waaaaaaaaay in favor of harm.
If somebody had had somebody shot in front of them and it traumatized them and it was a trigger, well, violence is in the theme of the game, they know by looking at the LABEL that it is not for them. Rape? There are probably only a handful of games where rape is actively part of the theme. If it was, believe me, I won't be playing there.
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I don't really find the idea of "do you TS? Y/N?" conversation very interesting. Whether any of us do or don't doesn't really matter much on this forum. No one is going to open a TS thread were we all just post sex at each other all day long.
I think a more interesting question is somewhat similar to @Ganymede's statement. Where's the line between something that's "provocative" or "sensual" but not "sexual" or worst (to some people) out right TS?
What do people consider "sexy, but okay" vs "sexy, but not okay?".
I've had some scenes that would be considered TS because the sex was roleplayed out that were so vague that frankly I wouldn't OOCly consider them sexy or as @BetterJudgment mentioned arousing. Sweet? Sure. Warm? Probably. Steamy and making need a cold shower? No.
On the flip side I've had scenes that consisted of a zero sex what so ever that managed to get my pulse up. Sexual? Not by a straight definition. Definitely steamy and provocative however.
(Note: Also if you ever want to experience a non-sex TS scene just ICly kiss one of @HelloRaptor's characters!
runs away from Raptor) -
Edited to remove the lunatic raving: Sorry, clearly the topic got the better of me.
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ETA: Mutter. To add: I can deal with this stuff. I can handle it, deal with it, w/e. Having it around in RP and whatnot isn't going to send me around the bend.I still shouldn't have to.
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What I don't get is why divisions exist at all - the conversation is fine, it's the Us or Them that bothers me. If you pose exposing your character, tearing a shirt off, flopping free, or what-have-you, and the next pose you read is not interested, opposed, angry, frustrated, freaked, cop-calling, violent, damaging, involves initiative and combat, or anything else than a free, hot-and-heavy reciprocation of similar, all sorts of things tend to happen.
People page that person for their content. There is something not right that you're being the asshole/bastard/prude/other and wtf is wrong with you, this is gaming, don't you know, why aren't you enlightened, you're so wrong, what a jerk, omg did you just get on the 911 channel? Other sort-of negative OOC response to your unexpected response. You get treated even worse if you just FTB, robbing that player of their sense of contribution. You get treated even worse if you start a Scene stating that nothing related to TS will take place at all, pre-writing it out.
That's my experience. If you are posing something other than participation in the TS that is being presented to you, you're somehow not a whole person, you're defective, you're troubled, you're negatively labeled. You are not a true gamer. Back in the day, this is what felt, to me, like the original division with the TSers. The accused would say, "You're just a TSer." It's a chicken-and-egg argument, I know, you cannot say for certain which came first. But they seem to come about cyclically.
So is the problem the TS, or is the problem how it's handled when someone doesn't effectively participate in the TS in the expected manner? Is the conversation really one of censorship and/or liberty? Is a part of the conversation about the health of transparency? (E.g., being transparent about pro TS or against TS having an impact on your community acceptance.)
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@Bennie said:
What I don't get is why divisions exist at all - the conversation is fine, it's the Us or Them that bothers me.
Yes.
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@Arkandel said:
To kick-start the conversation here's a question: Do you TS? If so, why? If not, why not?
Nope. I used to, with reasonable frequency. I'm transgendered, and I'm never going to be able to transition, so that was how I expressed my actual sexuality. So I only did this with close friends or people who were in an actual relationship with me.
I stopped because I found that it was taking too much time entirely, and my energy/ability to sustain RP is much more limited then it used to be. When I started finding it exhausting instead of exhilarating I quit doing it.entirely. I re-directed all the energy that was being used for that into other kinds of RP.
Do I care if people TS? Not at all, I prefer not to see it in public, I prefer that game powers not be used badly/incorrectly to make it more titillating or something. (Biokinesis even at 5 is not going to let you grow another fully functional penis.)
I only object to it when the character doing is is supposed to be doing other things without which nothing can get done. For example, the Prince. The Hierarch. Important characters need to see to thir non-conjugal duties first.
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I TS when I'm bored and the only alternative is bar RP. That's even more masturbatory.
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@Arkandel said:
To kick-start the conversation here's a question: Do you TS? If so, why? If not, why not?
I have before, when I was muuuuch younger during the IRC RPG days. I always found that it led to extreme creepiness. Full admittance, I bounce between male and female characters all the time, and this has led to some natural RP back in the day that led to potential sexitimes. So I went with it. Later on, when people found out I was a dude RL, it got people freaked the fuck out (this was before I was comfortable with my sexuality and being gay).
Nowadays, I don't TS. I can do sexually-charged RP and sexual themes (and have done so, ranging from the extremely incestuous Ventrue lineage my first LARP PC was part of, to my current Toreador who shamelessly hits on all of our local Gangrel chicks). I just don't find TS to add much to my RP (and most of the games I played on in the past years, TS wasn't a thing, or was mostly verboten).
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My stance on rape and child molestation: Put it in your background. If it nauseates the app staffer they can always turn it over to someone with a certain level of detachment.
On-game as a RP element? No. That kind of thing causes Drama every single time. It splashes over onto innocent bystanders. Staff gets dragged in and wishes that they could just @nuke both people involved. People ask staff to assign damage, to make pregnancy rolls, all kinds of disgusting crap.
There are just too many survivors of such trauma in the hobby to make this kind of RP worthwhile overall.
If it has to be in there, then let the people who want to do it get consent from every single player who is going to be affected, and leave staff out of it other to inform them that it occurred. FTB. And accept the IC consequences of the action. (Almost always the killing of the rapist with extreme prejudice)
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Only tangentially related to that:
I had a character that I decided I wanted to have the derangement Avoidance (Sex). I thought about the best way to cause this and while the first option were either of the things @Corruption meant, I decided I didn't want to write that into a background. I didn't want someone to have to read it and be bothered by it.
Instead I gave the character a series of Bad Things happening after sex. The first time her then boyfriend sent a video of it all over the place. The second time she got pregnant and the dad skipped town, etc.
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Re: Cross-gender TS
I typefuck boys playing girls, boys playing boys, girls playing boys, and girls playing girls.
I don't understand people who panic and freak out if the player's gender differentiates from the character. Why? How does it make you gay or straight?
I play male characters, female characters, and dickgirl characters. They typesex everyone, unless I ain't in the mood - or if I'm on a game that bans TS, which is cool with me.
I'll believe your claims to fame when you finally TS one of my characters one day.
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There is no shame in my game. I TS. I've made characters for the express use of regular TS. I can TS with you in varying degrees of graphic natures from kiss and nibbling to full thrusting. If I know the other player's got a kink that ain't mine, I'll engage. We all need to get off.
Here's where I'm a little different. There HAS to be some story to it. Some reason to be fucking, if only in my mind. I might play a broken character who equates sex with love. I might be playing an innocent, caught up in someone else's sexual prowess. I might be playing a prostitute. I might be playing someone who is simply very sexual. But there is always a little something to push a character along his or her development or else I just feel a little gross.
I don't TS for the sake of arousal. Both hands are firmly on the keyboard. I tend to only TS with those I've known for a little while, but it's not a rule. To me, TS is just another form of expression that I engage in.
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You're all sinners.
SINNERS.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@Coin
The one who screams the loudest usually has the most to hide.Truefax yo.
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Wellhung: Hello, Sweetheart. What do you look like?
Sweetheart: I am wearing a red silk blouse, a miniskirt and high heels. I work out every day, I'm toned and perfect. My measurements are 36-24-36. What do you look like?
Wellhung: I'm 6'3" and about 280 pounds.I wear glasses and I have on a pair of blue sweat pants I just bought from Walmart.I'm also wearing a T-shirt with a few spots of barbecue sauce on it from dinner...it smells funny.
Sweetheart: I want you.Would you like to screw me?
Wellhung: OK
Sweetheart: We're in my bedroom.There's soft music playing on the stereo and candles on my dresser and night table.I'm looking up into your eyes, smiling. My hand works its way down to your crotch and begins to fondle your huge, swelling bulge.
Wellhung: I'm gulping, I'm beginning to sweat.
Sweetheart: I'm pulling up your shirt and kissing your chest.
Wellhung: Now I'm unbuttoning your blouse.My hands are trembling.
Sweetheart: I'm moaning softly.
Wellhung: I'm taking hold of your blouse and sliding it off slowly.
Sweetheart: I'm throwing my head back in pleasure.The cool silk slides off my warm skin.I'm rubbing your bulge faster, pulling and rubbing.
Wellhung: My hand suddenly jerks spastically and accidentally rips a hole in your blouse.I'm sorry.
Sweetheart: That's OK, it wasn't really too expensive.
Wellhung: I'll pay for it.
Sweetheart: Don't worry about it.I'm wearing a lacy black bra.My soft breasts are rising and falling, as I breath harder and harder.
Wellhung: I'm fumbling with the clasp on your bra.I think it's stuck. Do you have any scissors?
Sweetheart: I take your hand and kiss it softly.I'm reaching back undoing the clasp. The bra slides off my body. The air caresses my breasts. My nipples are erect for you.
Wellhung: How did you do that? I'm picking up the bra and inspecting the clasp.
Sweetheart: I'm arching my back. Oh baby. I just want to feel your tongue all over me.
Wellhung: I'm dropping the bra. Now I'm licking your, you know, breasts. They're neat!
Sweetheart: I'm running my fingers through your hair. Now I'm nibbling your ear.
Wellhung: I suddenly sneeze. Your breasts are covered with spit and phlegm.
Sweetheart: What?
Wellhung: I'm so sorry. Really.
Sweetheart: I'm wiping your phlegm off my breasts with the remains of my blouse.
Wellhung: I'm taking the sopping wet blouse from you. I drop it with a plop.
Sweetheart: OK. I'm pulling your sweat pants down and rubbing your hard tool.
Wellhung: I'm screaming like a woman. Your hands are cold! Yeeee!
Sweetheart: I'm pulling up my miniskirt. Take off my panties.
Wellhung: I'm pulling off your panties. My tongue is going all over, in and out nibbling on you...umm... wait a minute.
Sweetheart: What's the matter?
Wellhung: I've got a pubic hair caught in my throat. I'm choking.
Sweetheart: Are you OK?
Wellhung: I'm having a coughing fit. I'm turning all red.
Sweetheart: Can I help?
Wellhung: I'm running to the kitchen, choking wildly. I'm fumbling through the cabinets, looking for a cup. Where do you keep your cups?
Sweetheart: In the cabinet to the right of the sink.
Wellhung: I'm drinking a cup of water. There, that's better.
Sweetheart: Come back to me, lover.
Wellhung: I'm washing the cup now.
Sweetheart: I'm on the bed arching for you.
Wellhung: I'm drying the cup. Now I'm putting it back in the cabinet. And now I'm walking back to the bedroom. Wait, it's dark, I'm lost. Where's the bedroom?
Sweetheart: Last door on the left at the end of the hall.
Wellhung: I found it.
Sweetheart: I'm tuggin' off your pants. I'm moaning. I want you so badly.
Wellhung: Me too.
Sweetheart: Your pants are off. I kiss you passionately-our naked bodies pressing each other.
Wellhung: Your face is pushing my glasses into my face. It hurts.
Sweetheart Why don't you take off your glasses?
Wellhung: OK, but I can't see very well without them. I place the glasses on the night table.
Sweetheart: I'm bending over the bed. Give it to me, baby!
Wellhung: I have to pee. I'm fumbling my way blindly across the room and toward the bathroom.
Sweetheart: Hurry back, lover.
Wellhung: I find the bathroom and it's dark. I'm feeling around for the toilet. I lift the lid.
Sweetheart: I'm waiting eagerly for your return.
Wellhung: I'm done going. I'm feeling around for the flush handle, but I can't find it. Uh-oh!
Sweetheart: What's the matter now?
Wellhung: I've realized that I've peed into your laundry hamper. Sorry again. I'm walking back to the bedroom now, blindly feeling my way.
Sweetheart: Mmm, yes. Come on.
Wellhung: OK, now I'm going to put my...you know ...thing...in your...you know...woman's thing.
Sweetheart: Yes! Do it, baby! Do it!
Wellhung: I'm touching your smooth butt. It feels so nice. I kiss your neck. Umm, I'm having a little trouble here.
Sweetheart: I'm moving my ass back and forth, moaning. I can't stand it another second! Slide in! Screw me now!
Wellhung: I'm flaccid.
Sweetheart: What?
Wellhung: I'm limp. I can't sustain an erection.
Sweetheart: I'm standing up and turning around; an incredulous look on my face.
Wellhung: I'm shrugging with a sad look on my face, my weiner all floppy. I'm going to get my glasses and see what's wrong.
Sweetheart: No, never mind. I'm getting dressed. I'm putting on my underwear. Now I'm putting on my wet nasty blouse.
Wellhung: No wait! Now I'm squinting, trying to find the night table. I'm feeling along the dresser, knocking over cans of hair spray, picture frames and your candles.
Sweetheart: I'm buttoning my blouse. Now I'm putting on my shoes.
Wellhung: I've found my glasses. I'm putting them on. My God! One of our candles fell on the curtain. The curtain is on fire! I'm pointing at it, a shocked look on my face.
Sweetheart: Go to hell. I'm logging off, you loser!
Wellhung: Now the carpet is on fire! Oh noooo! -
I know Mages have the kinkiest sex, but are any of them worried about the Abyss during it? No. It should at least be part of the game-play, like it is any other time.
...seriously?
People do shit without worrying about the consequences all the time, in-game and out of it. That is a thing that people do, and frequently.
Also, it's pretty easy to do most magic in ways that the Abyss isn't really a pressing concern. I could get hit by a car, but I still go outside walking, even along stretches with shitty sidewalk coverage. I don't really give it much thought aside from keeping an awareness of my surroundings. I certainly don't worry about it.
There are just too many survivors of such trauma in the hobby to make this kind of RP worthwhile overall.
Rape isn't special in that regard. It's not different than a lot of things that get roleplayed. This has come up before, but rape isn't special, people have suffered all manner of traumatic experiences in their lives. Often life altering ones, resulting in all manner of PTSD or other after effects. Would you like to tell someone who was beaten so badly by their parents or spouse that they ended up in the hospital, that rape rp should get its own special category of consideration because 'it's different' than them being confronted with people around them RPing through a child abuse (or whatever else) story?
The list of terrible things that have happened to people is long and incredibly vile, but WoD has never made any bones about the fact that it does (sorry Sunny) cover all manner of vile story elements, up to, including, and surpassing rape. Do we really need to go over depicted uses of mental domination powers, physical abuse, torture, kidnapping and sexual sadism that have appeared in WoD books over the years? Because we've had this conversation before, and the list is incredibly long and detailed.
As someone who grew up as both a subject of abuse and a witness to far worse as a child, there is some shit I will absolutely not roleplay through, and will take steps to extricate myself if confronted with it, even if it means taking a break for a week or two from a game while my character is conveniently out of town or in a coma after a bad fall or whatever else. But that's on me. I used to be exactly the sort of person who demanded that nobody so much as roleplay certain things around me, up to and including quitting a game or no longer talking to a friend who didn't sympathize as much as I thought she should, and it's one of the few things I'm actually ashamed of when I look back on things.
My experiences and hangups don't excuse telling other people what they can't roleplay, and I generally find the idea that other people think theirs do to be anywhere from unfortunate to unsettling. I find the idea that rape gets its own special treatment where other deep traumas suffered by a significant portion of our population do not, to be at least moderately outrageous.
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@Rook, A++ would read again.
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