Tips on Güd TS

[lordbelh]

I'm the kind of RPer who really doesn't talk to people all that much OOC about what I want from my scenes, or my relationships, or the direction I'm looking to take my character in. My general philosophy is what happens, happens, and part of the fun is the mystery of it. Its not to say I can't be coaxed into talking about these things, its just that I never initiate them myself. The only exception is re-made relationships in which you need to have a common ground of understanding to portray said relationship accurately going forward (whether that relationship is romantic or sibling of parent or friendship or hated enemies).

As an extension, I don't really think I've ever discussed what I want out of a TS scene. I've never asked anyone if they want to bump the uglies in text. Often what I write isn't even what would actually get my knockers off properly, which is not to say I'll not get aroused. Its just, you know, personally I don't find blood spraying everywhere to be particularly sexy, but if I'm playing a vampire they rarely get all that interested unless you offer them blood, too. And if my character has gotten drunk as part of the foreplay, it should shock nobody if he (occasionally she) falls asleep, or abruptly has to run (stumble and fall on the way) to the toilet.

Anyway, I do know I like certain styles. I like sharp descriptions (as opposed to the vague 'she got naked'), I like it blunt and to the point action. I don't like endless flowery rants or internal monologues of this is the best and its love and wow lets go to heaven together. I'm very okay with temporary awkwardness and things getting derailed.

I can count on one hand the amount of times I've actually TSed over the last year, though. That by itself keeps things a bit fresh, I suppose. I will quickly use FTB and one-post summaries, or make it all about the sexposition (thank you GoT for that word!) if the sexytimes come in too rapid succession. If I portray a relationship often a scene set will be post coital, so the sex is part of the background, but you know, its already done so lets get our clothes back on and focus on the story going forward.

[Ghost]

@lordbelh said in Tips on Güd TS:

I'm the kind of RPer who really doesn't talk to people all that much OOC about what I want from my scenes, or my relationships, or the direction I'm looking to take my character in. My general philosophy is what happens, happens, and part of the fun is the mystery of it.

Amen on this.

Aside from generally figuring out comfort levels, I don't really like to talk about it either. Just like someone putting YOU instead of <charname> in poses, the concept of bartering into another player's ooc fetishes or wants just seems too strangely personal to me. It makes me feel like the eye has been taken off of the ball; that it isn't about roleplaying the character, but about the players, and in that some romantic scene ultimately becomes some kind of RL cybersex situation. I'm that guy that doesn't want to be some online proxy boyfriend to another player, so the more it is about the characters, the less it is about some vaguely personal ooc connection, which never ever ever ends well.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Auspice said in Tips on Güd TS:

But imagine if you want the IC dramz, but your RP partner doesn't? Some people do RP for the wish fulfillment and there's nothing wrong with that. Your fun is your fun (unless it involves being a dick to someone else on an OOC level). A lot of the issues I've seen arise from IC relationships and TS are people not being on the same page.

An aversion to relationship drama is not always about wish fulfillment either, for me I RP to be able to do things more interesting then RL or to do things that are impossible. As a result I rarely do a lot of relationship RP but when I do I prefer it to be happy. There are two reasons for this, first it helps the basic story provides IC motivation by giving my char something worth fighting for to preserve and a reason to stick in the setting, a good relationship is a wonderful answer to the why wouldn't my char just move question. The second is well I have had plenty of failed relationships OOC none that were terribly dramatic but still failing at a relationship is still something I am pretty familiar with so isn't something I really feel the need to rp about.

[Arkandel]

@Ghost said in Tips on Güd TS:

Just like someone putting YOU instead of <charname> in poses, the concept of bartering into another player's ooc fetishes or wants just seems too strangely personal to me.

There's nothing universal about it though. If someone asks me to not use 'you' in poses - and I'm not talking about TS here - if there's no one else around I'll be happy to comply but I otherwise use it.

I do revert to the third person when referring to my characters OOC though in order to facilitate a separation of interests between the two. So I'll never say "I am trying to be Sheriff", it's always "Bob is trying to be Sheriff".

[lordbelh]

@Arkandel I have to admit I just hate the you, and slap that on to a TS scene and it will make me run for the hills.

[Ghost]

@lordbelh said in Tips on Güd TS:

@Arkandel I have to admit I just hate the you, and slap that on to a TS scene and it will make me run for the hills.

Agreed, I respectfully agree to disagree with @Arkandel on this one.

YOU always reads to me like JEFF, THE GUY AT THE KEYBOARD and not NAILS, THE POST APOCALYPTIC ROAD WARRIOR. There's something about the idea that the other player is proxying my character as an extension of who I am on an OOC level that takes any shred of TS or romantic rp and turns it into "Us, the OOC people, make-prentending our bathing suit regions touch". It makes me run for the hills because the last thing I need in life, or on my conscience, or on my karma, is that I'm involved in some kind of RL situation. No. It is not ME, it is HIM, my character, and if the other person refers to him as YOU, then it's all the more likely that the other person views their character as HERSELF, OOCLY, at least on some level.

At that point...something very different than a rp scene is taking place. It gives me the willies and I want nunovit.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Ghost said in Tips on Güd TS:

Aside from generally figuring out comfort levels, I don't really like to talk about it either. Just like someone putting YOU instead of <charname> in poses, the concept of bartering into another player's ooc fetishes or wants just seems too strangely personal to me.

shudders all over

Oh my god, this is the worst. I get so squicked out at the "you". I also get squicked out at any ooc chit chat like "Dang, this is hot :)". Yeah, good writing is great, but why would you make me think about the player behind the keys instead of the characters? Way too intimate, and I don't rp to get intimate with people.

[Arkandel]

@Ghost said in Tips on Güd TS:

@lordbelh said in Tips on Güd TS:

@Arkandel I have to admit I just hate the you, and slap that on to a TS scene and it will make me run for the hills.

Agreed, I respectfully agree to disagree with @Arkandel on this one.

It's a... I guess a habit. Perhaps it's because that's what I'm used to ever since I started to roleplay, when emotes on MUDs substituted the proper word in (you saw 'Bob grins at you' but others in the room saw 'Bob grins at Jim') but as I said, I harbor no strong preference either way and have no issues switching if the other person asks. If anyone knows anything about me it's how clear I like to separate IC from OOC so believe me, it's not (necessarily) a sign of any confusion about it.

However the point I wanted to make is how non-universal it is; I've been in plenty of scenes where the other player set and used 'you' without us having to discuss anything first. It happens!

Anyway, to get back into TS, what I honestly never understood is why folks who are only after it, and certain rather specific kinks at that, come looking for partners on non-sex MU*. Why not do it on a sexually themed game? It just seems weird, like going to a Harry Potter game to look for horror RP - it's possible but certainly not the best place for it.

[Ghost]

@Arkandel That is, actually, one of my pet peeves with MUing. Having to sift through or identify the players that are there to play the story versus the ones that are there for WoD-themed(for example) kink only, makes it hard to function and puts so many people on KinkRPer alert. I've seen characters get semi-blacklisted before even RPing due to theories that per their wiki page that's all they're there for, which sometimes turns out to not be the case

[Cobalt]

@lordbelh said in Tips on Güd TS:

@Arkandel I have to admit I just hate the you, and slap that on to a TS scene and it will make me run for the hills.

Oh, my god, yes. This makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. Outside of TS it annoys me but doesn't really worry me too much. But inside of a TS scene if someone is using "you" in their poses it makes me all sorts of skeeved out.

EDIT:

@Kanye-Qwest said in Tips on Güd TS:

@Ghost said in Tips on Güd TS:
I also get squicked out at any ooc chit chat like "Dang, this is hot :)".

This one is a yes and a no for me. Comments like "Wow, that was hot", haven't really bothered me. I'm a pretty open person though. I've never felt any shame about expressing whether I thought something was sexy or not. Nor have I ever felt it was wrong to get aroused by TS (Please note: I've also had this weird personal rule where I never actually got off on TS, as I felt that crossed a line). Opinions change and these days I don't TS because I'm not comfortable actively doing an activity with another person (who is not my boyfriend) whether its through roleplay or otherwise, whether its all IC or otherwise, that arouses me.

But in the past someone saying: "Damn, I liked that." or "Damn that was hot as hell." Never bothered me. The only time those things bothered me were when they pushed further. Like if they asked if I was aroused. Or further. Or if they randomly talked about me and sex, not the characters. Or if it came out of no where in regards to non-sex scenes.

Juerg for example. My mage basically told him he was a total shit head and she would never speak to him again. And I told him that I hoped he understood things were IC and not OOC. To which point he responded with "Oh, I wouldn't get made about that. I'm not that stupid. I'd never get to nail you again if I did."

I was just like ... "wtf."

So, uh, nother time? Don't talk to the person on the otherside of the screen as if they were the ones doing the things you wrote about!

[mietze]

I think it's used as a slur far more than it is factual. To the point now that if someone says to me "don't play with that persons they're just after TS" absent factual observation (like dropping into once sentance sloppily punctuated or non attentive poses as soon as there's no longer a penis/vagina in the room), then it partially raises a red flag for me with the person engaging in the whisper campaign.

But you know, if they are all about the TS /who the fuck cares/. I don't. It doesn't make them a less nice person than the "OMFG I NEVER" people.

[lordbelh]

@mietze I rarely run into them (possibly because they're off TSing?) and thus I don't find them a problem. If I did start rping with someone who only ever wanted to do TS (and I have yet to do that), they'd probably find me rather boring, and I'd find them boring, and soon after we'd move on. Still no harm and no foul in my book. They meet, they part, is still a story. Just a short one. Every relationship doesn't have to be an epic life changing romance.

[Kanye Qwest]

@mietze
And sometimes, that person might be all about TS with some people, but about more interesting RP elsewhere, if it's available. Honestly, when someone tells me "X is just here for TS" I think there's three possible things going on.

1. X is just all about TS, which would quickly become apparent upon interacting with them.
2. The person claiming X is all about TS is in some sort of competition with X and using it to put them down.
3. The person claiming X is all about TS wanted X to spend time roleplaying things X did not find interesting. I mean, I have heard this before from people who I knew were all about sitting around in their houses roleplaying their child objects and making pies. Not everyone is into that, and I can't even cast aspersions because I am also not into that.

[Arkandel]

@Cobaltasaurus I've played on Shang during different periods for shorter or longer stints. Conversely it's a fallacy you can't play unless you TS there - I did it for months and had plenty of fun. There are many pretty good roleplayers on that game, it's just harder to track them down since they're bunkered up away from the sheer insanity by sticking into small groups and filtering fairly strictly who gets in. Cliques on Shang are required if you want to retain your sanity.

Anyway though - the pages I used to get and the things I was told completely out of the blue by people I had never even chatted with before were ... interesting. I mean for starters you know how the line we're examining here is between IC and OOC? Some players don't want it at all, and they're very upfront about this fact. The MU* is more of a chat channel to them so instead they occupy this hybrid ... space lingering between the two. I'd get pages out of the blue like "I want you to do <X> to me", where <X> could be goddamn anything imaginable, sometimes barely recognizable as a sexual thing in my book - and those people didn't really have characters, they just had a name and a list of kinks.

I'm not usually one to judge if I can help it but as I am also both unwilling to disregard the player/character separation blatantly and unable to actually do anything to people over the internet, not being a wizard, I was always left extra puzzled by the requests. Either frame them in an IC way or don't, dammit!

What I was very pleasantly surprised by when I joined KD was there was no insanity. I'm pretty sure some hefty TS is taking place - the setting is what it is after all - but it wasn't like that at all. The over-the-top frenzy isn't endemic to sexually themed games, it's contained if staff care to do so. Which is not to say other phenomena didn't occur there too - I did have people lose interest in my PC once they realized he was 'taken' for example - but that's a fairly common thing to encounter in any given MU*; sometimes romantic entanglement RP is a game of musical chairs.

[Cobalt]

@Arkandel,

Oh, I know you can find non-sex RP on Shang. Plenty of people use it as a sandbox. People of people don't see it as a sandbox and do non-sex RP. When I've gone there in the past it's usually been to TS, but I've also found pockets of RP that was not sex that were interesting.

As for KD... Nggggh.... I can never ever go back ever. x.x I'm the world's biggest flake and Skaldia probably hates me. But yes there was plenty of really interesting RP that had nothing to do with TS going on there.

[Arkandel]

Do you think MU* can use a version of Tinder? You don't have to ever use it, but if you declare interest in a character and they declare interest in yours it notifies you both!

(I can feel @Thenomain scowling at me across space and time)

[surreality]

@Cobaltasaurus said in Tips on Güd TS:

This one is a yes and a no for me. Comments like "Wow, that was hot", haven't really bothered me. I'm a pretty open person though. I've never felt any shame about expressing whether I thought something was sexy or not. Nor have I ever felt it was wrong to get aroused by TS (Please note: I've also had this weird personal rule where I never actually got off on TS, as I felt that crossed a line).

This is pretty much exactly where I am on things, too. (We can totally be weird together if this is somehow weird.)

Story is critical for me (again, outside of Shang). If it isn't about the story, it's just not going to be comfortable.

Too much 'ooh baby' and... it's demonstrating it's not about the story. I'm not going to ever stress about, "Great pose!" or even, "Wow, that... really hit home, gonna need a minute."

I'm not going to assume somebody needs a minute with some hand lotion and a tissue unless they're super graphic about it or blunt. It isn't hard for serious IC emotional stuff to come up in sex scenes, and that usually takes me a minute to suss out in my head, and I figure it's the same for others. Similarly, it can hit a quasi-triggery nerve with somebody, and they may need a minute to process that -- something comes up in a scene some high school girlfriend said once, something their RL partner says all the time, the list is really endless and I'd never fault someone for wanting a moment to compose their thoughts if something does, for whatever reason, hit close to home -- which is the same for any other RP.

The vulnerability factor in TS can exacerbate this, which is why it's sometimes a little sad that "I need a moment" can be especially frowned upon in that context. This is partly because there's sometimes a hint of player vulnerability there as well, not in an 'overinvested' sense, but in that same basic sense that applies everywhere else -- nobody wants to be known as 'that crappy RPer'. When it's 'that crappy TSer', well, that's just awkward on top.

I keep that same divide in my head @Cobaltasaurus is describing, though; it's an abstraction.

To this day, I will swear the very best writing I ever managed in my life was in a TS scene, on Shang of all places. Almost none of 'the action' was the focus, and it was barely referenced in the posing. (It'd take way too long to explain the seriously weird scenario, or I would.) By the time we were done writing, my scene partner and I spent about an hour just wowing at the level of character development and how all manner of things suddenly made sense and so on, along with a lot of, "Holy hell I didn't know I could write like that!" from both sides. (To this day, my biggest regret in this hobby is not having to deal with the creeper crew, crazy staff, or anything like that, it's that I forgot to log that scene. So much spiky-gloves-wearing facepalm.)

[Auspice]

I'm glad to see he discussions this thread is sparking. I can't @reply everyone, so... My things:

• Total agreement on the 'you' being kinda squicky. I had a scene recently where the instant everyone else left and it was just my (female) char and a male char, he switched to the 'you' posing. It makes me feel weird.
• I can generally handle people just out for TS / sappy-romance and leave them in their own little world. It's when, as referenced, that they stop putting any effort into their poses as soon as <gender they're interested in> isn't present that drives me up a wall.
• I'm bummed that KD turned out so terribly for me when I tried playing there (close to 2 years ago). My char was not available for the sexytiems, so a lot of people just stopped playing with me and then I ended up with a stalker (before I knew how disturbing the person was, I'd given them my RPSkype name and I use the same UN generally for wikis). It sounds like a lot of people, lately, have had some great times there. Happy for them, but alas.

[Sunny]

@Cobaltasaurus said

As for KD... Nggggh.... I can never ever go back ever. x.x I'm the world's biggest flake and Skaldia probably hates me. But yes there was plenty of really interesting RP that had nothing to do with TS going on there.

You could come back. Skaldia doesn't hate anyone, and certainly not just cos of a few flakes. We have several people who have left and come back and left and come back again. Sooooo. If that's the only reason you're staying away, don't. If there are other reasons no big deal, but don't worry about that one.

[Arkandel]

@Auspice said in Tips on Güd TS:

and then I ended up with a stalker (before I knew how disturbing the person was, I'd given them my RPSkype name and I use the same UN generally for wikis). It sounds like a lot of people, lately, have had some great times there. Happy for them, but alas.

Oh, crap. That sucks.

While we're on the matter, how do you folks pick viable romantic partners for your characters? For instance I'd never allow anything to happen with someone I don't already know OOC - the chance of drawing the short straw are fairly high. I'm mainly thinking of people (I think @lordbelh mentioned something along such lines?) who prefer handling everything purely IC if they can help it, so in such cases do you feel filter partners out based on anything other than poses?