Where's your RP at?

[Miss Demeanor]

@mietze said in Where's your RP at?:

In addition most systems do have a get out of jail free way to get around PC death, even if it costs something in return.

I think people who fixate on death as the only measure of True Morality on a consent game are kind of weird. Even on games that are anything goes, usually people don't think like that.

If you're playing a monster that's in a war against other monsters, suddenly beating someone up or stealing their car doesn't seem like a big deal.

Mike burned down a building, huh... anyone in it?
'Nah, it was empty.'
Oh... that pussy. He needs to sack up or the (insert bad guys here) are gonna skin him alive and wear him as a coat.

It is rarely the fault of the game if the staff and/or players refuse to adhere to or enforce the theme/rules of the game.

[mietze]

PKilling just does not solve the problems people think it will. I don't think that's ever likely to change. It can really lead to over the top responses to even a peep of conflict, a game stagnating because literally new PCs can get or do nothing, or hyperactive oldies afraid of everyone.

But if you develop community, opportunities, etc you are likely to have an exciting, risk-encouraging environment pk or no. PK/death by misadventure doesn't build that on its own. But a lot of people whine about it like the absence is holding them back.

[mietze]

You're being obtuse, here a bit, Mis.

In a war against other monsters, if you want edgy there should be more at stake with every decision than whether you kill any PC. I would say if that's the only way you can feel on edge, then your storyteller and/or the environment and theme sucks/is super flat.

[mietze]

And again, I say this as a player who has had plenty of PCs PKed in different situations. As well as someone who has participated in PK as well.

The ability to do that in no way was the reason why those games felt edgy and risky. The game that had me most on th edge of my seat actually was one with a tiered consent policy, and where PK was relatively rare, though it did happen.

[Miss Demeanor]

@mietze I think you might need to double-check here, hun. Nobody, until you, was talking pvp. Character death in plot or prp is generally at the hands of NPC's. Consent isn't just about player versus player. It goes for accepting inherent danger in dangerous situations... as ST'd with NPC's.

[WTFE]

@Arkandel said in Where's your RP at?:

Just as an example, as requested.

And it's a good example.

Wake me up when someone makes an economic system that can actually match that utility without being deeply, profoundly broken.

[surreality]

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

@mietze I think you might need to double-check here, hun. Nobody, until you, was talking pvp. Character death in plot or prp is generally at the hands of NPC's. Consent isn't just about player versus player. It goes for accepting inherent danger in dangerous situations... as ST'd with NPC's.

I have been talking almost exclusively about PvP scenarios, and they absolutely happen.

[Miss Demeanor]

@surreality said in Where's your RP at?:

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

@mietze I think you might need to double-check here, hun. Nobody, until you, was talking pvp. Character death in plot or prp is generally at the hands of NPC's. Consent isn't just about player versus player. It goes for accepting inherent danger in dangerous situations... as ST'd with NPC's.

I have been talking almost exclusively about PvP scenarios, and they absolutely happen.

I'm not saying they don't. But I was absolutely not talking about pvp (specifically, anyways), I was talking about character death as a whole. I refuse to base an entire discussion about character death solely on ONE aspect of it.

[Ghost]

@mietze said in Where's your RP at?:

And again, I say this as a player who has had plenty of PCs PKed in different situations. As well as someone who has participated in PK as well.

Were you PKed for repeatedly double and triple posting?

[ThatGuyThere]

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

When your favorite character in a book series dies, do you stop reading the series? Or do you keep reading and find a new favorite character?

You didn't ask me but I will answer sometimes yes I stop reading. Sometimes I do not. Honestly I recently stopped watching Criminal Minds because I got fed up with the growing trend of the past few season to fuck with Spencer for no reason. It depends on what draws me to the game, the game itself or the desire to play a particular character.
Honestly most of the time these days I pick a game because it is a place to play the character I wanted to play, more than for the game itself. I would not throw a fit if said character died but I likely would not replace it either unless my next character idea also was playable in the same game.

[Miss Demeanor]

@ThatGuyThere That's fine. I've stopped watching shows because they wouldn't let go of a particular repeating trope. I've also stopped watching because a show went WAY past when it should have ended.

But really, I do the same. I pick a game because something about it sparks an idea for a character. If the character dies, sometimes I get a new idea, sometimes I find a new game. But I never let the possibility of the character dying stop me from playing on the game.

[Ghost]

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

But really, I do the same. I pick a game because something about it sparks an idea for a character. If the character dies, sometimes I get a new idea, sometimes I find a new game. But I never let the possibility of the character dying stop me from playing on the game.

That's a very mature approach, IMO. Given the shelf life of games sometimes and how sometimes RP waxes and wanes, really characters are rented more often than they are kept for years anyway.

Enjoy the game? Play. Feel like moving on? Move on.

[Arkandel]

@Ghost said in Where's your RP at?:

I have heard (and seen first hand) some cases of the argument being made that a character has been rendered unplayable because an element the player demands be made available to them is not available. More or less, I've seen this leveraged as an argument for the people that do this to ultimately get their way.

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to play something specific, not in terms of goals but roles; for instance you might want to play Q as a Wolfblooded character for a Werewolf pack. That's what you rolled for, the reason you bought the skills you did, the idea of a character you had in mind - it's not about winning or losing, it's about the concept itself.

If something happens which makes the role unreachable - say, you're playing that pack's Alpha and you claim IC only full Uratha can handle gear - I might feel justified to page you and try and see if that's negotiable.

... Unless I know you OOC I probably won't say anything, but bear with me.

In contacting you it wouldn't be about pressure or guilt-tripping - perhaps you didn't think it through, or didn't consider the ramifications for my character. Or we can come up with a cool subplot where my PC tries to earn enough respect to be included anyway. Or at least you won't hear six months down the line that some arbitrary thing you said cost your pack a member but you had no idea anything was at stake. Wolfblooded what? Someone wanted to play what? You had no idea!

Yes, people can use all sorts of arguments to get what they want in games. But it's not necessarily the case. Some amount of OOC communication can lead to useful compromises, and the absence of it can do a lot of harm for no reason at all.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Ghost said in Where's your RP at?:

@Sunny Oh don't get catty at me about the fact that I feel strongly about my viewpoint on this topic. I've said plenty of times (in this thread) that I get the story crowd vs the game crowd. I do see other people's points on this topic, but just that without dice to resolve, up to the point of deciding character death, it sets an uneven playspace.

If you can't express your viewpoints without getting personal about it, then fuck off?

So you can insult the other side all you want but when it gets pointing out that is what you are doing it "becomes personal" ?

[surreality]

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

@surreality said in Where's your RP at?:

@Miss-Demeanor said in Where's your RP at?:

@mietze I think you might need to double-check here, hun. Nobody, until you, was talking pvp. Character death in plot or prp is generally at the hands of NPC's. Consent isn't just about player versus player. It goes for accepting inherent danger in dangerous situations... as ST'd with NPC's.

I have been talking almost exclusively about PvP scenarios, and they absolutely happen.

I'm not saying they don't. But I was absolutely not talking about pvp (specifically, anyways), I was talking about character death as a whole. I refuse to base an entire discussion about character death solely on ONE aspect of it.

Except you seem to be willing to go along with the trend of insisting that people who might favor a system that allows for death, but also favor that if somebody wants to show how badass they are, or if a GM wants to have an example of how dangerous an antagonist is, they target an NPC instead of a PC to show the PCs how shit just got real rather than plowing through three PCs at random, they're more folks who just can't handle anything bad happening to their characters. Which is utter bullshit. Seriously, you invoked a meteor or piece of frozen airplane turds falling out of the sky for no reason to smash a character flat as something people should be cheerfully embracing. No, not everybody feels that way, and no, that does not make them immature little self-centered jerks who don't know how games work. I do not actually recall, for example, a 'chance of random rocks-fall-everybody-dies' chart anywhere in WoD, so it is pretty safe to assume this would have to fall under the banner of 'sometimes bad shit happens', but completely ignores the fact that 'bad shit' comprises a lot more than random death by shitcicle, and if someone decided this was the kind of bad shit they were going to pull out of nowhere to knock someone's character off the grid, that person should maybe not have the authority to do much on that game any more. (Though there could be one, because jesus do they ever have everything else.)

@Ghost, you're sliding down the slope here on the unplayable thing, too, using the worst examples as an excuse to discount all of them. Knock it the fuck off, please. You're smarter than that shit.

The answer to these people pulling drama is simple as hell: "OK, sorry the game isn't for you then, you should go." In that case, if they leave, that is their choice, not someone else's, and yes, that's pretty relevant. "I left because I couldn't have my shiny!" is not reasoning many people are going to empathize with. "I left because I didn't want to play a character that was <in a situation I find personally uncomfortable and was not enjoying>," is a mature choice, and takes responsibility for making that choice. If folks feel that strongly about the thing, this is their option, and they should use it. If they're whining about it as a bluff, call that fucking bluff and tell them to get on with the getting on.

[Ghost]

@surreality said in Where's your RP at?:

@Ghost, you're sliding down the slope here on the unplayable thing, too, using the worst examples as an excuse to discount all of them. Knock it the fuck off, please. You're smarter than that shit.

I said sometimes. Not all cases. I said it should be kept an eye out for. I don't see where I suggested that the worst case is some kind of constant?

[Gilette]

@ThatGuyThere said in Where's your RP at?:

Honestly most of the time these days I pick a game because it is a place to play the character I wanted to play, more than for the game itself.

This is kind of the whole problem. "I'm not here for the game, I'm here because it's the only place I can play my particular snowflake."

[surreality]

@Ghost said in Where's your RP at?:

@surreality said in Where's your RP at?:

@Ghost, you're sliding down the slope here on the unplayable thing, too, using the worst examples as an excuse to discount all of them. Knock it the fuck off, please. You're smarter than that shit.

I said sometimes. Not all cases. I said it should be kept an eye out for. I don't see where I suggested that the worst case is some kind of constant?

Then why bring it up at all? The answer to the problem of that kind of player is known, and quite simple and straightforward.

[Dr. Teeth]

I play on NOLA. It's a little slow and small, but good staff from what I've seen. It's about my pace because I don't have time to play like I used to. No RP all nighters anymore, sadly.

[Ghost]

@surreality Because at the time in the thread there was a discussion about what makes characters unplayable, and it seemed like a valid point?

Not trying to do anything nefarious here.