Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?

[Coin]

@Ganymede said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@Coin said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

It'd be easy to model Merit groups for each different type of Witcher ability. Or you could even gravitate towards using Werewolf Gifts as models for different types of Witcher powers.

With the dark fantasy game I was working on, I basically took The Hurt Locker and other Fighting Merits, and grouped into categories. Each House (in the game) had its own soldiers which had access to a handful of categories, but not all of them.

As for magic, there's Mage.

Although for magic I would make it more limited than actual mage. Probably something along the lines of not being able to do creative thaumaturgy (at least, not as easily as with Mage) and making everything a lot more Rote-focused.

[Ganymede]

@Coin said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

Although for magic I would make it more limited than actual mage. Probably something along the lines of not being able to do creative thaumaturgy (at least, not as easily as with Mage) and making everything a lot more Rote-focused.

Right. That's the direction I went with. But the ruleset's already detailed; you just have to shackle it. I pretty much wrote: "See Mage: The Awakened 2E, but apply the following limitations."

[Rook]

As long as the <Super Character> is always open to any player, so that newcomers are not told "Sorry, <Super Characters> are closed, play a normal person." at which I find that very, very few people would stay on a game unless that is Their Thing.

I think that any PVP game should start with a level playing field. Yes, you will inherently hit the Oldbies vs Newbies problem, but no game system has figured that part out, nor do I think that they need to. Playing, investment and loyalty to a game should have a reward.

But nothing seems to suck more than finding a new game where the Oldbies are all idle/vacation, but tying up slots that newbies with energy and ideas could be revitalizing the game. It breeds stagnancy, and stagnancy is the first step in one decline pattern.

[D-bone]

@Ganymede said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

Again though, because of this how does one represent a witcher in game without it being totally unfair to Bob who apps a regular human soldier dude because he doesn't want to play a witcher? This is an insurmountable problem of player agency.

For all their power, witchers have no real influence. They have to peddle their services for money. They have to work for people like Djikstra or assist people like Crach, who are human. So, the fix is simple: make an entire section of the game inaccessible or stupid difficult for non-humans.

A political or economy system would do wonders.

That doesn't make sense... there is nothing prohibiting a witcher from abandoning their calling and doing something else. Only in the north does this super anti-witcher thing happen. Even my cursory amount of knowledge and experience with the subject tell me this.

Furthermore- the system I have in mind works for a few things- but a political system is not one of them, and I've never seen a political system work that I've ever been impressed with that doesn't have immense amounts of staff arbitrariness.

Just on the most basic level- I don't want to make a basic game where players are forbidden or otherwise hampered from getting access to certain kinds of content.

To repeat the original concept- I'm not interested in having a limited number- I'm interested in having 0 of the. It is a game that is witcher-like. Witcheresque, not THE witcher. I can immediately side step all the the problems of not knowing the lore backwards and forwards, not having read the books, and the fact that there are jediesque characters who while prevented from doing something the entire story inevitably will fall around.

If the fact that I want to make a dark setting themed game where players are not given all the cool toys isn't interesting, then I'll take that in mind and go down a different route.. but that is the premise. Take it or leave it.

[Ganymede]

@Rook said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

I think that any PVP game should start with a level playing field. Yes, you will inherently hit the Oldbies vs Newbies problem, but no game system has figured that part out, nor do I think that they need to. Playing, investment and loyalty to a game should have a reward.

I'm going to repeat myself here: @Sparks' idea of having a political/economic/influence/advancement system based on Time is how you balance the interests here.

In short: new PCs have fewer assets, so they have more Time to get new assets or advance their PCs; old PCs have more assets, which they must maintain, so have less Time to get new assets or advance their PCs. Old PCs still have an advantage because they can squash new PCs in the influence arena, but a concerted effort by a group of new PCs can overcome this and eventually kick the old PC to the curb unless the old PC gets some new PC allies, and protects herself, etc.

[Ganymede]

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

That doesn't make sense... there is nothing prohibiting a witcher from abandoning their calling and doing something else. Only in the north does this super anti-witcher thing happen. Even my cursory amount of knowledge and experience with the subject tell me this.

My cursory amount of knowledge and experience comes from The Witcher III: the Wild Hunt. I haven't read the novels all the way through, English or Polish versions. If witchers are praised or lauded beyond Temeria, so be it; my eyes are stuck on that setting and time, and in that setting and time I cannot recall any witchers in the story being particularly affluent.

Furthermore- the system I have in mind works for a few things- but a political system is not one of them, and I've never seen a political system work that I've ever been impressed with that doesn't have immense amounts of staff arbitrariness.

This is a place to focus one's efforts, if one has any ambition to make a non-arbitrary political system.

[D-bone]

@Ganymede said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

That doesn't make sense... there is nothing prohibiting a witcher from abandoning their calling and doing something else. Only in the north does this super anti-witcher thing happen. Even my cursory amount of knowledge and experience with the subject tell me this.

My cursory amount of knowledge and experience comes from The Witcher III: the Wild Hunt. I haven't read the novels all the way through, English or Polish versions. If witchers are praised or lauded beyond Temeria, so be it; my eyes are stuck on that setting and time, and in that setting and time I cannot recall any witchers in the story being particularly affluent.

Lambert's Quest in the Witcher 3- Super affluent Cat School Ex-witcher who you kill
Witcher 2- Geralt is a bodyguard for King Foltest
Witcher 3 ending spoilers Geralt Retires.

This argument though is pointless- Please kindly stop trying to shoehorn your wants and desires into a basic premise question.

[Kanye Qwest]

@D-bone You asked for a check for interest?

Please tell me if this interests you. Now, please stop telling me how/why it interests you.

??

[Ghost]

Pitch:

TGG + Coed Showers + Aliens = Starship Troopers TGG

Just sayin.

[D-bone]

I already made 4 pitches, I wanted to see wha- fuck it I should of just made a new thread.

Also not really sold on that, seems silly, almost sarcastic. But you know what, that looks like a game where you should include some really complicated code, or include this system that may not really capture the theme of the game in question.

[Kanye Qwest]

@D-bone No, you should have made a poll if you wanted a vote and no discussion around it! Can you make polls on this board? I doubt it.

[Coin]

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@Ganymede said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

That doesn't make sense... there is nothing prohibiting a witcher from abandoning their calling and doing something else. Only in the north does this super anti-witcher thing happen. Even my cursory amount of knowledge and experience with the subject tell me this.

My cursory amount of knowledge and experience comes from The Witcher III: the Wild Hunt. I haven't read the novels all the way through, English or Polish versions. If witchers are praised or lauded beyond Temeria, so be it; my eyes are stuck on that setting and time, and in that setting and time I cannot recall any witchers in the story being particularly affluent.

Lambert's Quest in the Witcher 3- Super affluent Cat School Ex-witcher who you kill
Witcher 2- Geralt is a bodyguard for King Foltest
Witcher 3 ending spoilers Geralt Retires.

This argument though is pointless- Please kindly stop trying to shoehorn your wants and desires into a basic premise question.

No one is shoehorning anything. We're telling you what interests us and what we'd like to see, which you asked. You just don't like the answer, which is tough for you, especially since this isn't a thread just for your idea.

If you want a thread where people constructively tell you what they like or don't like or what interests them or doesn't about your specific game and where you can shut shit down, go make a specific thread for your idea, and I wish you the best of luck wrangling the MSB regulars.

In short, please stop trying to shoehorn in your question into our basic preferences for a game like the one you suggested.

[Coin]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

@D-bone No, you should have made a poll if you wanted a vote and no discussion around it! Can you make polls on this board? I doubt it.

You can, actually. There's a button for it. Third from the right. But it's only for the main post, so like I said above: new thread.

[Ganymede]

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

Lambert's Quest in the Witcher 3- Super affluent Cat School Ex-witcher who you kill

Jad Karadin. This is a good call, but it can be easily handled by prohibiting active witchers from having the same influence as humans. Suggested methods: prohibiting retired witchers from learning Witcher-related Merits; penalizing Witchers system-wise on rolls or raising their costs for accomplishing certain things.

Witcher 2- Geralt is a bodyguard for King Foltest

Being a bodyguard for King Foltest isn't quite the same as being Djikstra. And it's not like being the King's bodyguard really helped Geralt much in The Witcher III.

Witcher 3 ending spoilers Geralt Retires.

Retiring with some saved up cash is vastly different than having affluence. Besides, I retired with Ms. Bouncy-bouncy, and she became an advisor to Kovir. That's not close to what Djikstra or Crach accomplished within their realms, which is personal influence that wasn't purchased with blade-skill.

Just to be clear, here: I like the idea of a Witcher game. Also, to be clear: you were the one expressing some discomfort with the theme and setting. Something about witchers becoming OP'd, or something. I'm just saying there are ways to get around that, but you seem insistent on poo-poo-ing ideas to overcome your concerns.

[D-bone]

The bodyguard from King Foltest also came with titles, wealth and money. The only reason Geralt lost all that is part of the plot of the Witcher 2. Pretty sure Geralt got made into a knight then a duke in the introduction of that game.

The goal of this thread is theme- not mechanics. I have stated multiple times- not interested in witchers in a game due to multiple reasons. If you want to open your own witcher game, great. Go for it. Doesn't help me in the slightest though, especially suggestions of mechanics and systems to use.

As I stated before- if you want to talk about trying to build a theme or a world of a game that feels like the witcher without being the witcher- that is helpful to me. If not, I'm glad your interested in that, but it sounds like you should go make your own game, and code these systems in yourself. Seems like you really dig them.

[ShelBeast]

I... have not read the 9 pages of stuff before this, so apologies if my two cents have already been talked about, but...

A book series called Broken Empire. Weird High Fantasy in a world that is a future version of our own where an apocalypse happened that brought supernatural stuff and reshaped the world completely. It's like Game of Thrones, but with nuclear devices and such.

Fallout. Just. Please. Not any specific Fallout game... just a game set in that world, with those factions. If anything, I'd think that the early games would be better to draw inspiration from, as the lore was actually more tight before Bethesda came along. Note: I also love the Bethesda games and their additions. I just think the earlier games would make for better inspiration for a MU*, specifically. Bonus points if I could get a game that actually combines the early Fallout games with the Wasteland games for maximum win.

While I'm going on about post-apocalypse... Mad Max. The iconic wasteland. Doesn't get much better. Also, Into the Badlands, because it's how I imagine Georgia looks in the world of Mad Max.

American Gods - This would be fun to create in the vein of a WoD/CofD style game, with the base characters being essentially tulpa, or thoughtforms given life through belief, and getting powers associated with the beliefs people have of them. Maybe a bit like Scion or something.

Assassin's Creed. It has a narrow focus, maybe, but the Ancient Aliens aspect of it is pretty killer and you have this ages long shadow war between two factions that is every bit as political as it is parkour and throat-slitting. Set it in the modern day, with competing factions using the various Animus style machines to access history, and you have a game that can be an number of things, while still fitting within the same theme. Alternatively, just pick a period of history and roll with it. Let's see the Fall of Carthage through the eyes of the Templars or something. Good stuff.

Diablo - Fantastic lore, high fantasy setting, larger than life heroic characters? I just think this could work surprisingly well as an MU*.

[Ganymede]

@D-bone said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

As I stated before- if you want to talk about trying to build a theme or a world of a game that feels like the witcher without being the witcher- that is helpful to me. If not, I'm glad your interested in that, but it sounds like you should go make your own game, and code these systems in yourself. Seems like you really dig them.

What's there to talk about? I've already stated my interest in building a world with a non-Witcher theme and setting. I think I've said this several times in the past. And I also mention this in my last post on the last page (Page 8). You should go and take a read.

I also said that I can adapt what I was working on to a Witcher theme and setting, and have some ideas on how to balance witchers and sorceresses with humans. If you were reading that, then you might find something useful. But if you insist that I'm being adversarial about the topic, that's fine as well.

And, funny you should mention making my own game, because I'm in the process of doing so. Thank you for the encouragement.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Coin said in Which canon property/setting would be good for a MU* ?:

I don't actually see a problem here, unless you were planning on having a limited number of Witchers/Sorceresses, and everyone else is screwed. If anyone can play a Witcher/Sorceress, then it shouldn't be an issue. People who play normal people or soldiers or whatever are just people who prefer lower-tier characters, which is actually a thing.

I fully agree with @coin here. Though I would also add be clear that there well be a power difference if people choose to play a lower powered character will full knowledge there is no problem. Yes some might end up regretting the decision but then let them change characters. Not everyone has the same tastes in characters.
Using the Starwars analogy I have played in many Starwars tabletops across multiple platforms, I played a Jedi once, I do think knowing that mechanically i will be disadvantaged. I do not see a problem with letting players make sub-optimal mechanical choices as long as they know they are making that choice.

[Rook]

@ThatGuyThere
The fact that you use the word "suboptimal" in that text bothers me. I get sick of "kits" and "builds" and min-maxing players. I get it if that's Your Thing when it comes to RPGs, maximizing effectiveness... but use of language like this smacks, to me, of looking down on other people's preferences and styles of playing.

It's like... build-shaming, or something.

[ThatGuyThere]

I am not a min-maxer but I have taken enough Mathematics courses to recognize certain builds are more effective than others on any game.
I play the character I want regardless of comparative power level if mechanics play into my c-gen plans at all it is in the form of odd tricks rather than power but to ignore that some collections of stats will perform better than others strikes me as the same at trying to deny basic math.
As for the term sub-optimal what term would you prefer I used to describe the decision to choose a character option in spite of the mechanical disadvantages? Basically a term for the opposite of min-maxing.