Make MSB great again!

[Thenomain]

@three-eyed-crow said in Make MSB great again!:

In my ideal world, the threads in the ad forum become locked to except to the original poster (who can theoretically post updates) and the board admins (who can theoretically do necessary maintenance and link things). Nobody else posts in them.

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@faraday said in Make MSB great again!:

So we have the ad thread, for the ad. Then if folks want to discuss the game, good and bad, that can go into a review thread.

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Now here's a train I can get on.

[Lithium]

Make the advertising section essentially locked. Original poster can post things, but otherwise, no comments. Keep the rules on the advertising thread to a single post, that way it's all concise, creators have to edit their initial post to keep things up to date should they so choose to update it. That way it is /just/ an advertising thread. IF there are things wrong with a game that is on the advertisement thread, you can rest assured we can definitely create our own threads on the subject(s).

[Ganymede]

@lithium said in Make MSB great again!:

Make the advertising section essentially locked. Original poster can post things, but otherwise, no comments. Keep the rules on the advertising thread to a single post, that way it's all concise, creators have to edit their initial post to keep things up to date should they so choose to update it.

But this also bars posters from posing questions to the advertisers, and permitting the advertisers to respond to the same. While I understand that we can always PM each other, you are severing a legitimate form of communication. Further, not all advertisements are for complete games; they are also used to see the general interest of the members for particular games and to solicit assistance.

Consequently, I disagree with @thenomain's synopsis. A cursory reading of the current Advertising Forum shows at least as many requests for help or feelers for interest as advertisements for completed games. Giving the poster control over what's in their thread is already an unspoken policy around here; there's no need to really change that. But I agree with Thenomain that it will take some genuine effort for us to, without policing, respecting the existing policies, let alone new ones.

Otherwise, and unsurprisingly, I concur with @faraday. Make the Reviews section non-Hog Pit and move parts to the Hog Pit if warranted.

[Arkandel]

To throw another log in the fire, I'd like there to be a clear place on MSB that you can go, hat in hand, and ask for help.

Maybe all you have is the glimmer of an idea, maybe you have a fully coded game but no staff, but where do you go to find collaborators?

[Ganymede]

@arkandel said in Make MSB great again!:

Maybe all you have is the glimmer of an idea, maybe you have a fully coded game but no staff, but where do you go to find collaborators?

I don't think a Classified section is a bad idea. There, you can ask for help, players to join your group on a game, etc.

[Thenomain]

@ganymede said in Make MSB great again!:

@arkandel said in Make MSB great again!:

Maybe all you have is the glimmer of an idea, maybe you have a fully coded game but no staff, but where do you go to find collaborators?

I don't think a Classified section is a bad idea. There, you can ask for help, players to join your group on a game, etc.

http://musoapbox.net/category/12/mu-questions-requests

It gets very little love. I've seen more questions in the Constructive forum than here.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@faraday said in Make MSB great again!:

ETA: I'd be fine with what @Three-Eyed-Crow said about the ad thread just being for an ad, but I didn't think this forum s/w could do that easily.

Oh, I'm not at all sure the thing that exists in my fantasy world would actually work on this forum as it exists in reality (and it does create the issue of funneling all questions into the general 'commentary' about the game, but I guess I'd personally prefer that). I get that it's kind of out of keeping with the spirit of the board in a lot of ways. But this is a rare opportunity to give feedback about the more logistical/organizational board stuff, and that's my big idea/hobby horse issue about the ad section.

I'm just happy there are clearly-posted guidelines at all now, tbh.

[Lithium]

@ganymede said in Make MSB great again!:

@lithium said in Make MSB great again!:

Make the advertising section essentially locked. Original poster can post things, but otherwise, no comments. Keep the rules on the advertising thread to a single post, that way it's all concise, creators have to edit their initial post to keep things up to date should they so choose to update it.

But this also bars posters from posing questions to the advertisers, and permitting the advertisers to respond to the same. While I understand that we can always PM each other, you are severing a legitimate form of communication. Further, not all advertisements are for complete games; they are also used to see the general interest of the members for particular games and to solicit assistance.

Consequently, I disagree with @thenomain's synopsis. A cursory reading of the current Advertising Forum shows at least as many requests for help or feelers for interest as advertisements for completed games. Giving the poster control over what's in their thread is already an unspoken policy around here; there's no need to really change that. But I agree with Thenomain that it will take some genuine effort for us to, without policing, respecting the existing policies, let alone new ones.

Otherwise, and unsurprisingly, I concur with @faraday. Make the Reviews section non-Hog Pit and move parts to the Hog Pit if warranted.

I wouldn't use the advertisements board for what you are discussing. I would use the mildly constructive forum.

[ThatGuyThere]

@ganymede said in Make MSB great again!:

@thenomain said in Make MSB great again!:

I think that the advertiser should have control of what goes into their advertisement. That seems reasonable to me. If an advertiser wants to wipe an entire thread from their thread, let them. And if sycophants come to trumpet, so be it. I think it's reasonable for the average visitor to the Internet know that not all positive reviews are objective.

If this was the case then why would the ad thread here be anymore useful to a perspective player than the same ad I would see on a game? I have yet to see and add for an open game here that I have not seen already on a game I play. Without criticism in those threads it would just be the same thing I have read with a much of Me Likes place posts under it. Not thanks, if that is what the ad section is going to be please give me a way to say no thanks like there is for the hog pit, for the politics, and code etc.

[Sunny]

@thatguythere

Not all of us play on games where this is the case.

[Prototart]

@arkandel

tbh I think that if it's a game where, like, actually documentably messed up stuff has or keeps going down then you really really really need to append, idk, "thread contains evidence of staff (doing whatever that's bad)" or whatever to an ad instead of just "link: discussion thread"

[ThatGuyThere]

@sunny said in Make MSB great again!:

@thatguythere

Not all of us play on games where this is the case.

Cool, I have no problem in this case but please make it a part of the forum that can be opt in so I can ignore it. It harms no one who uses the thread to wall it behind an opt in like the part of the forum that are already like that.

Edit : In light of the new rules for the ad thread can we please give poster the ability to opt out of seeing it. Please, I do not think this is a great deal to ask for since it already in place for other sections.

[faraday]

@ganymede said in Make MSB great again!:

But this also bars posters from posing questions to the advertisers, and permitting the advertisers to respond to the same.

While I would support @Three-Eyed-Crow's suggestion of a locked ad thread, this is what I was getting at with the idea of a single 'Game' thread. I mean, does BSGU really need two different threads? One for "Ads/Questions" and one for "Reviews"? No. Just combine them and have ad / updates / q&a / feedback all on the same thread (minus anything that belongs in the hog pit).

What bothers me more (and I'm guilty of it too) is everyone derailing a game's thread with stuff that really has nothing to do with the game itself. But there's no real cure for that other than moderation.

[Sunny]

@thatguythere

The problem with doing that is that it then requires people to have a membership to peruse the ad forum. As it stands, I do not believe that they do.

[ThatGuyThere]

So Yay we have a section with all the discussion value of holding hands and singing Kumbaya.
If not opt in is an opt out possible?

[Sunny]

@thatguythere

Go into the category. In the upper right, there should be a 'watching' option somewhere. There's an option to not show in unread. It won't disappear entirely from your sight, but the existence of it should no longer inconvenience you.

[Wizz]

I still stand by my original opinion when this discussion first came up. I personally don't think moderation is the end of the world free speech murdering fascist apocalypse everyone seems to think it is here, I've been a member of forums with much larger, happier populations with entire moderator teams and they do just fine, it honestly isn't that bad.

You can try to replace a moderator's job with automated forum features but there will ALWAYS be a degree of housekeeping that requires the ability to make decisions a script just can't replace, it's just the way it is.

Personally, the harder we push against it, the less interest I've had in coming here and participating -- but DISCLAIMER that is just me, and who gives a shit.

[ThatGuyThere]

@sunny
Thank you that is helpful. It prevents the post from making that red number appear in the unread section which works that same for me.
I just read those or go to places through notifications so it is hidden enough for me.

[Thenomain]

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

So Yay we have a section with all the discussion value of holding hands and singing Kumbaya.

I was going to correct, but it turns out that you're currently right. From the Advertisement Thread's Rules of Engagement:

This is not the place to criticise [...] You may also post links to such criticisms on a game's advertisement thread, but please no more than that.

So yes, singing Kumbaya with occasionally someone allowed to put up a post-it note if they feel like it's worth it. Seeing how people don't use the forums made available already, I feel this is a move that at best doesn't understand its user-base.

[WTFE]

Late to the party, but in the spirit of the title I'm going to say that nothing needs to structurally change at MSB. What change is needed is cultural: people just have to own up to the fact that MSB is merely WORA under another name. Drop the pretense of higher aspirations. Delusion isn't becoming.

There was maybe once a small window in which a site could have been built that was WORA for adults. That ship has long since sailed, however, and this is really just another in the line of WORAs. With this thread you've not only let the animals escape to run out into the night, you've gone and set the barn on fire and are closing the door on the gutted, skeletal remains of it.

MSB, like the WORAs and SWOFA before it, is a bitch board for the MUSHing community: no more, no less. This is not (necessarily) a bad thing. It merely is. The bad part is pretending that it is otherwise and, now that the venom has flowed through all the veins here, that it could be anything else. The bad part is trying to fit something that is simply not natural to the community as a mold around the same.

Keep MSB as it is. Just start being honest about it.