@ZombieGenesis said in Good or New Movies Review:
DC did none of these things.
Because DC doesn't know where to start, or what threat to focus on, or what tone it wants to set, or --
-- look, it begins and ends with the idiotic choice of Zack Snyder to manage the project. I said it once, and I'll say it again. Zack Snyder is, and was, incapable of appreciating the nature of DC Comics, and how they differ from Marvel Comics.
This was readily apparent in Man of Steel, which Snyder somehow managed to bungle horribly, despite a stellar story written by David S. Goyer. Goyer, who helped the Nolan Brothers, knows as well as any writer the importance of sympathy for the villain. And the screenplay is clearly geared to have you sympathize with General Zod, not Kal-El.
I'd forgive anyone for overlooking this. I won't forgive Snyder for wasting the nuanced performance of Michael Shannon, who, at all times, is working with an excellent script that had him wrestling with the problem of Kal-El, who he sees as a brain-washed ex-pat. The moral play of Kal-El v. Krypton's entire remaining population is ruined, to the point where Kal-El's primal scream after killing Zod is absent of all meaning.
Fuck. That. Guy.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:
Zack Snyder is, and was, incapable of appreciating the nature of DC Comics
You could've ended the statement right here. And for evidence, I point to:
https://www.indiewire.com/2019/03/zack-snyder-defends-batman-killed-person-1202053359/
When that article (or it might've been Kotaku's?) went out on Twitter, two of the primary writers for Batman for DC right now (like, guys who ACTIVELY WRITE BATMAN) had an overwhelming response of 'WTF'
Snyder doesn't get the characters he's writing/directing when it comes to DC. He has this sort of 'reimagining' goal and then gets angry when the fans don't like his personal take on things.
I think one of the main issues with Zack Snyder(and I think this was very evident in Sucker Punch) is that he's more concerned with "how cool does this scene look?" without caring about how the scene impacts the character or the overall story. Take the Man of Steel; Superman kills Zod after a fight that nearly levels Metropolis to the ground. What did we get to show either of these events impacted Superman on any level? He screamed. That's it. It's never touched on again, it did not further his character at all, it provided no sort of story-based development.
@ZombieGenesis Agreed. Also...take a look at the Battle of Metropolis from 'Man of Steel' and the Battle of New York from 'Avengers'...
Color Palette: MoS is drenched in a saturated blue filter, adding a more gritty, depressing tone. Avengers doesn't use a color filter to affect the emotional mood of the audience.
Heroic Acts: I'll admit that this might be a bit nit-picky here, since Superman is still just one guy, despite all his powers, and you had 6 Avengers. But, you have the Avengers going out of their way to protect and rescue bystanders, prioritizing the safety of those caught in the crossfire over their own. The only civilian we see Superman actively saving is, of course, Lois Lane.
Subtle Imagery: In Avengers, there's lots of destruction. You have one of the Chitauri 'dragons' falling on and collapsing an apartment building. In Man of Steel, those gravity pulses are also brutal, but you have a scene where there's an actual person off in the corner of the frame being picked up and slammed back down by the pulse repeatedly. Sure, Avengers had civilian casualties, and they address that in the news wrap-ups, but you don't see people dying or getting brutalized like that; it just re-enforced the gritty and depressing nature of the film.
But onto more positive news....
I'm psyched for the idea of an Old Republic film(s). I would say, turn KOTOR 1 & 2, and the 'Revan' novel into 'Star Wars Story films. Then, get Dave Filloni to do an 'Old Republic' animated series, following the TOR storylines.
@ZombieGenesis said in Good or New Movies Review:
Take the Man of Steel; Superman kills Zod after a fight that nearly levels Metropolis to the ground. What did we get to show either of these events impacted Superman on any level? He screamed. That's it. It's never touched on again, it did not further his character at all, it provided no sort of story-based development.
But it does. It's just buried under everything because Snyder doesn't know what the fuck he is doing.
Goyer is setting Zod up as a tragic figure. Zod was tasked to protect and preserve Kryptonian life. Jor-El found a way to do it, but Zod disagreed and opposed him. In the end, Jor-El was right, and Zod realized his error. Zod thereafter has another chance to preserve Kryptonian life on Earth; unfortunately, it requires the alteration of the biosphere, which would kill all other life on Earth. Zod makes the choice he was tasked to make.
Contrast Zod with Mr. Freeze. Mr. Freeze tried to save his wife. Ferris Boyle interrupted him, and nearly killed him. Mr. Freeze lives in a literal Hell, and he believes that his wife is dead. So, he sets about getting revenge by killing Boyle. Batman intervenes; yet, after seeing what happened to Mr. Freeze, he sympathizes:
Mr. Freeze: Snow is beautiful, don't you think? Clean, uncompromising...
Batman: And cold.
Mr. Freeze: Like the swift hand of vengeance.
Batman: I saw what happened to your wife. I'm sorry.
Mr. Freeze: I am beyond emotions. They've been frozen dead in me.
Batman: That suit you wear... a result of the coolant?
Mr. Freeze: Very good. A detective to the last. I can no longer survive out of a sub-zero environment. Tonight I mean to pay back the man who ruined my life. Our lives.
Batman: Even if you have to kill everyone in the building to it?
Mr. Freeze: Think of it, Batman. To never again walk upon a summer's day with a hot wind in your face, and a warm hand to hold. Oh, yes. I'd kill for that.
(Entire script of the best 22 minutes in television right here) At that point, Batman realizes that Mr. Freeze's motivations are the same as his, but the lengths to which Mr. Freeze would go exceed his own. That's why, in the final scene of Heart of Ice, Batman tries to get justice for Mr. Freeze by revealing Boyle's actions to the public.
Kal-El sympathizes with Zod. He wants to learn more about Krypton and what it means to be Kryptonian, but he realizes that the extent to which Zod would go to protect Kryptonian life is "inhuman" and immoral to him. To Zod, the death of humanity is a necessary sacrifice for the preservation of Krypton, and there is nothing he would not do to meet that objective.
General Zod: Look at this. We could have rebuilt Krypton on this planet, but you chose the humans over us. I exist only to protect Krypton. That is the soul purpose for which I was born. And every action I take, no matter how violent or how cruel, is for the greater good of my people. And now, I have no people. My soul, that is what you have taken from me!
But, step into Zod's shoes, just like Batman stepped into Mr. Freeze's, for a moment. Kal-El knew that what he was doing -- killing all of the Kryptonians -- was exactly what Zod would have done. But he did it anyway. Which makes Kal-El as much a villain to Krypton as Zod was to humanity. Which explains his final, primal scream.
That's what I saw and heard.
Something you probably missed because omfg zack snyder sucks as a director.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
@Ganymede I'm not saying there wasn't a story there. I've said many, many times to people I know IRL that there was a good story to be told in Man of Steel, Zack Snyder just wasn't the guy to tell it. In both The Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman I think there were ample opportunities character depth and development...Zack Snyder just ignored them all.
And I didn't need an explanation for why he screamed at the end. I got it. My point is if you yawned and missed that scream? You'd see no further impact of that moment on Superman at all. A primal scream in a vacuum means nothing and that's all we got. Why? Because it looked cool at that moment and then Zack Snyder, with his goldfish memory, forgot about it and moved on looking for his next cool shot.
@Ganymede Zack Snyder does some comics stuff well; mainly the Frank Miller ubermensch type characters. 300 was great. Most of Watchmen was amazing. But when it comes to super/metahumans, Snyder doesn't get them, just like Frank Miller doesn't get them. Both Snyder and Miller work best when telling stories of average or slightly powered heroes rising above their human limitations. I.E. Batman and Daredevil. Snyder would have been the best pick for Batman movies, but not a character like Superman, who's diametrically the opposite of Batman. Superman is a God that chooses to live as a Man; Batman is a Man who chooses to challenge Gods, often through sheer strength of will.
@Thenomain said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Runescryer said in Good or New Movies Review:
https://heroichollywood.com/star-wars-knights-of-the-old-republic/
Below the article was a picture of Aflac and the following leading statement:
Ben Affleck is officially out as Batman and it's a pretty sad day.
But is it? Is it really a sad day? Is it not instead a relief for Ben as well as the rest of us?
Due to that "picture of Aflac" typo, I'm now imagining the Aflac duck as Batman.
So, thanks for that mental image.
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
@Thenomain said in Good or New Movies Review:
Typo?
No, that was designed to make someone imagine Batduck.
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
https://variety.com/2019/film/features/kevin-feige-avengers-endgame-marvel-studios-1203188721/
Spoiler Alert: The image of Cap's WWII helmet on the shelf is next to some Cable graphic novel collections. Its proof, Cable is Thanos, that's why Josh played them both. The merger just completes the true storyline.
Watching the trailer for the new Hellboy movie makes me think to myself, "Huh. I really want to watch Hellboy now. That other, better Hellboy." It's not just me, right?
https://whatiswrongwith.me/Mia
There were never any good old days. They are today. They are tomorrow. It's a stupid thing we say, cursing tomorrow with sorrow. -- Gogol Bordello
@Aria The new Hellboy is...all kinds of terribad. However, as soon as you relax into the fact that it's going to be just awful, you can lean into it as an enjoyable bad film. (As long as you're the kind of person who can really enjoy a bad film. I am.) Parts of it were just icky, parts were funny and I kept tilting my head and saying, "Huh. They went there," to myself. That said? I enjoyed the hell out of it because I had negative expectations.
@reimesu said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Aria The new Hellboy is...all kinds of terribad. However, as soon as you relax into the fact that it's going to be just awful, you can lean into it as an enjoyable bad film. (As long as you're the kind of person who can really enjoy a bad film. I am.) Parts of it were just icky, parts were funny and I kept tilting my head and saying, "Huh. They went there," to myself. That said? I enjoyed the hell out of it because I had negative expectations.
I mean..... I will stop what I'm doing to watch it if Queen of the Damned is on TV and that movie is shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. But it's also shit that speaks to the stupid 15 year old Vampire: the Masquerade player I used to be. It's nostalgic late 90s pseudo-goth shit, so I'm kind of okay with that. I don't object to a bad movie. I object to a boring movie.
https://whatiswrongwith.me/Mia
There were never any good old days. They are today. They are tomorrow. It's a stupid thing we say, cursing tomorrow with sorrow. -- Gogol Bordello
@Aria I was not bored. I came out thoroughly entertained. But lord, it wasn't good, to quote Bloom County.
@reimesu said in Good or New Movies Review:
@Aria I was not bored. I came out thoroughly entertained. But lord, it wasn't good, to quote Bloom County.
So, basically the BPRD/Hellboy equivalent of Netflix's The Order, which is a series that is so terribad it results in an underflow on the 'quality' field and wraps around into being somewhat enjoyable again?
a.k.a. Packetdancer (or "Pax" for short)
@Sparks Pretty much, yeah!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd7v7nQLQGwKQxfPtUPz6i1h3-JVxBx0D
Playlist of movie youtubers discussing great scenes from the MCU.
May not be for you since it's analytical stuff discussing how scenes are constructed, but I live for this sort of shit.
@Arkandel said in Good or New Movies Review:
https://variety.com/2019/film/features/kevin-feige-avengers-endgame-marvel-studios-1203188721/
Spoiler Alert: The image of Cap's WWII helmet on the shelf is next to some Cable graphic novel collections. Its proof, Cable is Thanos, that's why Josh played them both. The merger just completes the true storyline.
