Good or New Movies Review

Aria · Dec 22, 2019, 11:59 PM

@Groth I maintain that the prequels are all amazing movies -- if you just watch them with the sound off and make up your own dialogue like you're watching a telenovela on the day it pours during your vacation, so you're stuck inside watching hotel TV in a foreign language you don't really know.

bored · Dec 23, 2019, 1:02 AM

While I agree there's a story they could have explored from TLJ (the whole 'the force rises everywhere' idea), it would have realistically taken a lot of new characters and 2 movies. So rather than blaming Rian Johnson, I think the shit falls on Kennedy and the overall lack of leadership/vision for the project. 8 would have worked if it was 7. Do all your deconstruction then build anew from the ashes. Instead, the whole plays out as JJ and RJ going back and forth retconning each other. Kind of ridiculous, and mind boggling such high-stakes interests would let it happen.

Because we're doing it

Empire->ANH->RotJ->Rogue One->Sith->Rise->FA->Solo>AotC->TLJ->TPM

Revenge of the Sith has come up for me a lot over the years, while I originally hated the prequels in general. Attack of the Clones is still hard to watch due to the romance and Count Dookie being a confusingly unnecessary character in the same fashion as Snoke/Palpatine, and Phantom Menace has a little kid and fart jokes. But if I had to rate them as trilogies, I'd put the prequels over these new movies. Lucas' aged excesses aside, he still clearly had a wider vision he's building, and one of the greatest tragedies of this whole thing was Disney throwing out his notes. I buy into his whole cyclic epic nonsense (that he was doing it, anyway) and it's... kind of a damn shame we'll never get to see the full product.

Sockmonkey · Dec 23, 2019, 3:03 AM

Everyone who doesn't put The Last Jedi at the top/near top of their ranking lists is wrong.

You can't fight universal truth so don't bother trying.

ZombieGenesis · Dec 23, 2019, 3:11 AM

Sith is one of my favorites in the series, to be honest. At least based on how often I've watched it. The dialogue was pretty bad but, overall, I find it to be a really enjoyable movie. Attack of the Clones is near the middle for me but I generally start near the middle when Obi-Wan heads to Kamino and watch from there onward. The Phantom Menace rates higher than TLJ for me simply because of the Duel of the Fates. I'll sit through the entire movie(even if I don't have to) just to watch that.

SG · Dec 23, 2019, 3:19 AM

@Sockmonkey If they re-edit it to be the comedy it was clearly meant to be, it would rank higher for most people, I'm sure.

Auspice · Dec 23, 2019, 3:31 AM

TLJ has only one good scene.

and thanks to youtube I can just watch it there.

Jennkryst · Dec 23, 2019, 5:07 AM

I salvage my viewings of the prequels pretty okay by pretending four facts are true for them.

Darth. Darth. Binks. No, I'm not joking. If you follow the ring/rhyme theory, 'powerful force user hiding their identity behind goofy idiot facade' is... Yoda. There's a ton of other little snippets I totally pretend is FOOL PROOF EVIDENCE to support this.
This step is the squick step, but... well. All romance dialogue in 2 is Anakin unintentionally mind-tricking Padme. It's not malicious, but as established in 1, he is really good at using the force reflexively/without knowing it is happening. Also a reason why 'he is too old!' Not enough time to teach the level of subconscious restraint needed to stop this sort of thing. We presume this stops by 3, because the dialogue was not as god-awful, and that she does manage to have genuine feelings for him at some point. This ties into the next bit a bit, which is
Padme and Obi-Wan were an item in the lull between 1 and 2. Ya'll. He jumps out a window to get the assassin droid. Anakin hasn't seen her since 1, but Obi-wan does seem rather familiar with her, DOESN'T HE? It also gives Padme some complex emotions that Anakin can misread during his 'she betrayed me!' spiel.
I honestly can't recall if this was actually canon before now, but in light of ROS, it is extra believable if it was not already established as fact - Padme does not die of a broken heart. Palpatine steals her life energy to keep Anakin alive until he gets all Vader-fied.

Alternatively... had every actor embraced that the films were actually supposed to just be 100% cheesy CAMP, like McGregor and McDiarmid did, the prequels would have been a magical delight.

Jennkryst · Dec 23, 2019, 5:27 AM

@Rinel I will fight you for a couple reasons. really just two.

AotC is not on this list. Is deserves second to last, because
RoS not only deletes so much of TLJ out of spite that I'm surprised they didn't move Kylo Ren's scar back to his cheek, but it undermines and retcons key plot points and elements of 1-7.

Edit because I can totally write in italics without pretending via backslash on here, whoops.

TheOnceler · Dec 23, 2019, 5:12 AM

@Sockmonkey said in Good or New Movies Review:

Everyone who doesn't put The Last Jedi at the top/near top of their ranking lists is wrong.

You can't fight universal truth so don't bother trying.

There are probably good and valid reasons to dislike TLJ, but thanks to shitty Internet people over the last two years I just assume that anyone who doesn't like TLJ is trash.

Jennkryst · Dec 23, 2019, 5:16 AM

@TheOnceler said in Good or New Movies Review:

@Sockmonkey said in Good or New Movies Review:

Everyone who doesn't put The Last Jedi at the top/near top of their ranking lists is wrong.

You can't fight universal truth so don't bother trying.

There are probably good and valid reasons to dislike TLJ, but thanks to shitty Internet people over the last two years I just assume that anyone who doesn't like TLJ is trash.

I cannot defend the pacing.

Kelly Marie Tran... we stan a queen, but CAN YOU IMAGINE if Disney let Poe go with Finn to CasinoWorld? CAN YOU IMAGINE the Han/Leia go-to-Bespin vibes they would have? CAN YOU IMAGINE if, during the skiff-fight on SaltWorld, Finn disobeys orders like Poe did at the top of the film, and Poe realizes that yes, sometimes throwing lives away to take out a weapon actually isn't worth it? And crashing together? And that kiss?

CAN. YOU. IMAGINE?!?

bored · Dec 23, 2019, 5:51 AM

@Jennkryst said in Good or New Movies Review:

I salvage my viewings of the prequels pretty okay by pretending four facts are true for them.

Darth. Darth. Binks. No, I'm not joking. If you follow the ring/rhyme theory, 'powerful force user hiding their identity behind goofy idiot facade' is... Yoda. There's a ton of other little snippets I totally pretend is FOOL PROOF EVIDENCE to support this.

I'm low-key on this one too. I know people think its ridiculous, but based on stuff the actor said about his role being drastically revised (after the negative public reaction to the character), plus George's rhyming stuff, etc. There have been some very good efforts of people looking at clips and footage for clues that might have survived edits, as well.

Arkandel · Dec 23, 2019, 2:23 PM

@bored I wish they had done it.

There were a few things in the series I wish they had done, and in random order here they are:

Darth Jar-Jar. Yes, g'dammit, give us that twist.
Han, Leia, Chewie and Luke sharing the screen at least once.
Luke having a badass moment. No, dying to be a fucking hi-def hologram isn't it. He's goddamn Luke Skywalker, goddammit.
One quotable line. There are so many from the original trilogy and the prequels. What's the line from these movies?
A great villain. Palpatine in the prequels was pretty good. Darth Vader wasn't that bad either! Snokes was a joke that took two movies to die like a moron.

I'm pretty curious to see where they go next though. The Mandalorian is killing it at the moment and Rogue One was a better movie than any in the sequel trilogy (IMHO, of course). Will they lean on the existing tropes? Create movies to fill in the gaps between movies some more? Create a 'next phase' Star Wars?

Rinel · Dec 23, 2019, 2:50 PM

@Jennkryst

Most of what Rise of Skywalker and The Last Jedi ripped away from the franchise are good things. I agree that there were pacing issues. I would like to see TFA mostly taken away (keep the Han scene, scrap Starkiller) and incorporate a lot of TLJ into it, especially the bits about Luke's failure. Then spread ROS across two movies, basically.

Star Wars is always about retconning. I'm resigned to it at this point. The only really big issue is what ROS implies for the prophecy. But the prequels sucked (though I am pro-Binks), so I don't really care what happens to them.

Rinel · Dec 23, 2019, 2:52 PM

@Arkandel

I think if they continue the main sequence with a new saga, they should learn one very important lesson from Rogue One and the Mandalorian: sometimes less is more. It's okay to have a movie that takes place in only a few locations.

Ghost · Dec 23, 2019, 3:32 PM

@Sockmonkey said in Good or New Movies Review:

Everyone who doesn't put The Last Jedi at the top/near top of their ranking lists is wrong.

You can't fight universal truth so don't bother trying.

The second half of that movie is some of the best Star Wars on screen to date.

My order (Best to Last):
Rogue One
Empire
New Hope
RISE OF SKYWALKER
ReturnJedi
Solo
Force Awakens
The Last Jedi
Sith
AttackClones
Phantom

New Hope bumped over Rise before posting because the music and imagery are burned into my heart. I always feel great when I hear that throne room finale number.

Edited because I thought you said Rise near the top. I think TLJ was decent, but failed to recognize what made the original trilogy cast work. I liked that it set up the Rey/Ben stuff, but largely TLJ broke the family up into 3-4 separate side stories rather than keep the family together. In fact (not a spoiler) but I didn't really feel like the new family (Poe, finn, Rey, etc) felt like much of a family until this most recent movie.

Testament · Dec 23, 2019, 4:23 PM

RoS was a half-baked movie of even more half-baked ideas. Whatever else it does(and more often than not, doesn't do)it just reinforces my belief that Abrams should never be allowed to touch another intellectual property ever again.

I still haven't forgiven him for the Star Trek reboot. Thank god that Picard is releasing next month.

Arkandel · Dec 23, 2019, 10:24 PM

Hiding this behind spoiler tags for multiple reasons!

***=Spoilery content***

click to show

Testament · Dec 23, 2019, 10:50 PM

@Arkandel Yep. That's more or less been my entire take-away from these new movies. (mostly)utter garbage.

Find it hard to believe that making something worse than the prequels would be possible, and yet, here we are.

Ganymede · Dec 23, 2019, 10:53 PM

I am reminded of the oft-maligned suggestion that if one thinks they can run a game better they should make one of their own.

Auspice · Dec 23, 2019, 10:55 PM

@Ganymede said in Good or New Movies Review:

I am reminded of the oft-maligned suggestion that if one thinks they can run a game better they should make one of their own.

Hasn't that been the issue? Star Wars fans convinced they can do better and thus the movies are terrible in comparison to whatever they cooked up themselves?