A fully OC supers MU

[faraday]

@Sparks said in A fully OC supers MU:

I gather it's somewhat more focused on running a game as well where Evennia's Discord is fairly heavily focused on developing one.

The Ares discord has separate channels for help setting up/running a game and developing one. The admin help gets a bit more traffic, generally, but I think that's because a lot of the folks picking Ares are doing so because they don't have a coder and it's ready to go out of the box.

Ares does not have M&M off the shelf, but there are several other skill/roll systems one could pattern it after if you wanted to make your own. (and a tutorial for making one). If none of the systems have M&M already made, then I think it comes down to what other systems you are looking for in a game. Here is a quick comparison (It was up to date last I knew, but if Evennia has added stuff since then I'm happy to update it.)

[GreenFlashlight]

@Atomic said in A fully OC supers MU:

Yeah, I loved playing on them, so I'm thinking of standing one up.

I'm strongly considering an Academy style game where the PCs are students. I have a lot of world and lore already built. I love to run scenes, build stories, and do long plots.

I'm partial to the Mutants and Masterminds system for MU resolution, though I am reading a few other supers rulesets right now, because total dork.

How does that bounce off of people?

Brutal honesty? I'm interested in the idea of an OC only game, but when you tie that to a game system that requires a financial investment from me, I find myself wondering why I shouldn't just take my OC ideas to a game I don't have to pony up for a book for. I think a strong enough sales pitch could convince me to cough up the sixty dollar investment, but as it stands, "I'm thinking of doing this, probably in a school for supers" isn't selling me.

[Atomic]

@GreenFlashlight said in A fully OC supers MU:

Brutal honesty? I'm interested in the idea of an OC only game, but when you tie that to a game system that requires a financial investment from me, I find myself wondering why I shouldn't just take my OC ideas to a game I don't have to pony up for a book for. I think a strong enough sales pitch could convince me to cough up the sixty dollar investment, but as it stands, "I'm thinking of doing this, probably in a school for supers" isn't selling me.

It's open license: http://www.d20herosrd.com

[Atomic]

I have a quandary -- I could get things set up and either hunt for existing M&M code or lean on a coder heavily to get started in timely fashion, or I could go quick and pick Ares with a FATE plugin and not need a coder to get started quickly.

I have run supers games in FATE before. It's very much more narrative, which can work fine on a MU, and though it's more.. indistinct, it gives a lot more wiggle room for GMing.

Thoughts?

[ZombieGenesis]

I'd play at a FATE supers game. Depending on what flavor you used. There are a lot of options out there. My favorite is Venture City. They make things pretty simple. It's FATE. It's supers. It works for the most part. Even if you didn't use the collateral damage stuff. Also, the good thing about it, they have a Venture City SRD.

That said I think I still have my old Empire Bay DB. I can't offer much in the way of support but I could donate that if you don't mind using TinyMUX instead of Ares.

[Bad at Lurking]

Fate actually works really well for supers, in my opinion. The system inherently handles the 'Batman/Superman' problem with power levels by putting everything on a narrative level.

[Runescryer]

My only issue with FATE in regards to Supers is the 'wiggle' room. It works fine in a TT setting, where there is a certain amount of trust, familiarity, and an unspoken agreement among the players not to abuse the system. Online, all that mostly goes out the door and players will argue for every scrap of advantage they can get, IMO.

Again, just my feelings. If you have a very dedicated Staff willing to say 'No' to players, it can work. But then you have a whole new set of difficulties with claims of 'a-hole Staff'.

[WildBaboons]

Dark Spires was DFRPG which is basically FATE and it worked really well. Staff had no problem saying no, but even as a player running plots I never really ran into issues with others trying to game the system. For most of the game's run it was one of the most cooperative feeling game environments I've ever played on.

[Runescryer]

@WildBaboons Fair enough. YMMV, and all that. I just have a more cynical view on things, most likely, from my own experiences.

[Auspice]

@Runescryer said in A fully OC supers MU:

My only issue with FATE in regards to Supers is the 'wiggle' room. It works fine in a TT setting, where there is a certain amount of trust, familiarity, and an unspoken agreement among the players not to abuse the system. Online, all that mostly goes out the door and players will argue for every scrap of advantage they can get, IMO.

Again, just my feelings. If you have a very dedicated Staff willing to say 'No' to players, it can work. But then you have a whole new set of difficulties with claims of 'a-hole Staff'.

This happens on just about every current superhero game out there, though. They use ‘traits’ systems that can be rather vague and difficult people abuse them to pull the ‘I win’ sort of behavior.

I’ve played on some that were great and where people knew how to play well with one another. I’ve played on others where people.... did not.

But it’s something most comic genre people will be familiar with at least.

[WildBaboons]

It probably helped that power scale was pretty well defined and didn't have such a wide spread as in comic games. In DFRPG the strongest Strength power might make you Mr Incredible, but no one was Superman level benching the Moon.

[Runescryer]

@Auspice Which has been my experience as well. When you have a more static, stats-based system, even as a benchmark system without dice rolling involved, it cuts down on a lot of the 'I shot you; No you didn't' Cops N Robbers arguments.

@WildBaboons Yeah, lower power levels also help. Parity starts breaking down at higher power levels. And there's good points and bad points about having higher upper limits like that.

[Please Delete]

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[Atomic]

So what a supers MU needs is a system. Something that can basically end a schoolyard shoving match between players. M&M is fine. FATE is fine too, especially since it can get pretty granular where powers and what you do with them are concerned. It's no Champions, but it can be reasonably precise.

I'm thinking I'll go with Ares and FATE, since that seems to be the quickest and best supported way to stand it up right now.

[Auspice]

@Atomic said in A fully OC supers MU:

So what a supers MU needs is a system. Something that can basically end a schoolyard shoving match between players. M&M is fine. FATE is fine too, especially since it can get pretty granular where powers and what you do with them are concerned. It's no Champions, but it can be reasonably precise.

I'm thinking I'll go with Ares and FATE, since that seems to be the quickest and best supported way to stand it up right now.

A lot of classic SupersMU players hate systems, just FYI.

I’m fine with either. I’ve done both, I’m cool with both. Systems have their drawbacks also (people need to learn the system, people who wanna game the system, etc...). I know @ZombieGenesis ran into a lot of issues with people who felt their char should be X (notably I recall the Wonder Woman paper who thought she should be as strong as Superman, as fast as the Flash, etc etc etc.... basically made it so ‘if I’m not the best at everything, my character is ruined!’).

So just be ready for situations like that. People are gonna look at the Big Guys and model their sheet after them because of a fear of being ‘not good enough.’

[BobGoblin]

@Auspice

I believe with a fully OC game though you have less issues with the 'my character should be x' perceptions based off the 'canon' bullcrap. That said, FATE would be a solid choice. There's a ton of other amazing choices out there also and I'm very curious to see how the community responds to the game.

[ZombieGenesis]

@atomic I think you should make the game YOU want to play the way that YOU want to play it and everything else will sort itself out. You'll attract like-minded players who share both your vision of a system and theme and I think you'll have a lot easier time maintaining and managing a game like that. I've tried creating the game that "other people" want to play and it just doesn't work. I think you'll find that most supers players are open to a great many things and as long as you're passionate about what you're doing you'll be okay.

[Coin]

@Atomic said in A fully OC supers MU:

So what a supers MU needs is a system. Something that can basically end a schoolyard shoving match between players.

I mean, sort of.

It depends on your player base and your ability and desire as staff to enforce a theme of narrative cooperation in your players.

[Auspice]

@BobGoblin said in A fully OC supers MU:

@Auspice

I believe with a fully OC game though you have less issues with the 'my character should be x' perceptions based off the 'canon' bullcrap. That said, FATE would be a solid choice. There's a ton of other amazing choices out there also and I'm very curious to see how the community responds to the game.

I don't disagree, but if you have open sheets (which I do love, admittedly!), the issue can still arise.

[fatefan]

@ZombieGenesis said in A fully OC supers MU:

I think you'll find that most supers players are open to a great many things and as long as you're passionate about what you're doing you'll be okay.

I do appreciate this sentiment, but the overwhelming majority of supers-game players (in my experience) seem to prefer freeform/statless RP--to the extent that I've watched games trying to use statted systems effectively abandon them as staffers decide not to use or promote those systems.

So how to implement something that can be not only accessible but that clearly and easily facilitates RP for the supers crowd?