The Esports thread



  • I like watching Hearthstone tournaments because unlike most other esports, they're easy to follow as a spectator and it's fun seeing if the players will manage to make the right decisions with imperfect information.



  • EVO is happening right now. I'm keeping an eye on the Smash tournament at the moment - https://www.twitch.tv/evo1


  • Pitcrew

    I missed most of yesterday's LCS, but so far today's games are AWESOME.


  • Pitcrew

    Guys, I finally made it to Silver IV on League of Legends on my own.

    God damn, I am not good at these games so this is pretty neat for me.


  • Pitcrew

    @Coin I've played League on-and-off since Season 1, and I can tell you that ever since the ranked overhaul that introduced promotionals, I've found Gold games markedly easier than Silver. Silver V is the absolute worst group of people in that game. Bronze players usually have humility by virtue of being Bronze (don't know how that's changed with the new sub-bronze league), but Silver V players tend to be just as bad, if not worse, with completely unwarranted arrogance. So if you've crawled out of that cesspool, you're probably a lot better than you think you are.

    I know Dota has an even worse reputation for toxicity, but the attitude of the League playerbase is like 80% of why I switched. The fact that I've been playing long enough to have Judgement Kayle and still don't own every champion is the remaining 20%.


  • Pitcrew

    @Rinel said in The Esports thread:

    @Coin I've played League on-and-off since Season 1, and I can tell you that ever since the ranked overhaul that introduced promotionals, I've found Gold games markedly easier than Silver. Silver V is the absolute worst group of people in that game. Bronze players usually have humility by virtue of being Bronze (don't know how that's changed with the new sub-bronze league), but Silver V players tend to be just as bad, if not worse, with completely unwarranted arrogance. So if you've crawled out of that cesspool, you're probably a lot better than you think you are.

    I know Dota has an even worse reputation for toxicity, but the attitude of the League playerbase is like 80% of why I switched. The fact that I've been playing long enough to have Judgement Kayle and still don't own every champion is the remaining 20%.

    The new leagues means that the cesspool you're referring to is spread a little broader over Silver IV-III and Bronze I-III, unfortunately, but I've never been that sort of player.

    I'll probably still run into them, though. Leagues have only 4 divisions, now.

    I have been told, however, that it's a lot more unusual to be hard stuck in Silver than it is Bronze, just by virtue of people start taking the games with a little less rage, lol.


  • Pitcrew

    Having players Rainbow 6 siege ranked and League of Legends ranked I have to say that R6 has a more representative MMR. It is straight MMR you get X pts for winning or losing and move instantly no promos no prove it. The LoL promotions system always seems overly punishing to me given that in a solo queue statistically speaking you are going to have a disconnect, bot, or something once out of 5 games.


  • Pitcrew

    @Jeshin said in The Esports thread:

    Having players Rainbow 6 siege ranked and League of Legends ranked I have to say that R6 has a more representative MMR. It is straight MMR you get X pts for winning or losing and move instantly no promos no prove it. The LoL promotions system always seems overly punishing to me given that in a solo queue statistically speaking you are going to have a disconnect, bot, or something once out of 5 games.

    Yeah. I do hate the promo system. It's horrible.

    But most of my friends who play MOBAs play League and while I do most of my playing alone, swinging back and forth between one game and another is difficult for me. I already tried it with Heroes of the Storm and just... my head.


  • Pitcrew

    @Jeshin Yeah, I prefer Dota's flexible MMR for the same reason. One game shouldn't count so incredibly much more for your rank than another.

    That said, I'm still terrified of doing ranked Dota. SO.


  • Pitcrew

    @Rinel said in The Esports thread:

    @Jeshin Yeah, I prefer Dota's flexible MMR for the same reason. One game shouldn't count so incredibly much more for your rank than another.

    That said, I'm still terrified of doing ranked Dota. SO.

    The worst part is that AFAIK, LoL still has a hidden MMR and when you get matched up you don't get matched up based on your league (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc) but your ELO. Sure, you can't get matched up with someone too many levels above or below you in leagues, but that still means that if you're hardstuck in low Bronze but you play relatively well, in general, you're getting matched up with people who play better than the rank you're trying to get the fuck out of. It's really frustrating.



  • @Coin At the same time, your gains and losses are adjusted to reflect that fact. If you're hardstuck but a higher MMR, you should be able to climb out if you play enough games, and you can even skip divisions.

    It's a dumb system still, but I always find that when I put the effort into climbing it happens pretty steadily.


  • Pitcrew

    @Selira said in The Esports thread:

    @Coin At the same time, your gains and losses are adjusted to reflect that fact. If you're hardstuck but a higher MMR, you should be able to climb out if you play enough games, and you can even skip divisions.

    It's a dumb system still, but I always find that when I put the effort into climbing it happens pretty steadily.

    That's probably true when you play at a Diamond level and are hardstuck Silver, where people still more or less have figured out the basic macro of the game and won't int. If you play at Gold level and you'rte hardstuck Bronze, it's fucking impossible, man. I stomped my lane and could literally two-shot any of my opposing team yesterday--and I still lost because my team inted so hard I just couldn't be everywhere at once. The loopholes in the system you're referencing do work for people who play at mid-to-high level so they don't get too stuck, but for people at my level they just don't really do anything. I don't play at Diamond or even Platinum; I'm never gonna skip a division.

    And all this sounds like I'm complaining--I'm not, not really. I'm proud of myself knowing I got to Silver after a lot of work, and I did it in SoloQ without any of my (much more) skilled friends carrying me. And they have offered. I just prefer to be hardstuck at a low ELO than to be carried high and then drop like a stone when I'm left to fend for myself at a level I just can't manage.



  • @Coin Oh god, I'm definitely not Diamond. I usually land at about Silver 2 and have a ton I can work on. I didn't even finish my placements last split.


  • Pitcrew

    @Selira said in The Esports thread:

    @Coin Oh god, I'm definitely not Diamond. I usually land at about Silver 2 and have a ton I can work on. I didn't even finish my placements last split.

    This is literally the highest I've ever climbed. Before this, my highest "steady" level was Bronze II, before Iron got implemented.

    We'll see if I can manage to stick around Silver. :P



  • My best was barely scraping into plat 5 for two seasons, but I haven't played much in years. I'd be really lucky to be able to hit silver now, I think.



  • My placement for my first ranked season was Silver IV, which I'm told is pretty alright for a first-timer. I've been meaning to get back into it for a long-ass time. I was a support main forever but I've been refocusing on Top lane because I've found my besties in Gangplank and Swain.

    Promo matches are stressful AF. Especially when whether you move up or down can be beholden to your teammates doing poorly.


  • Pitcrew

    @Dreampipe said in The Esports thread:

    My placement for my first ranked season was Silver IV, which I'm told is pretty alright for a first-timer. I've been meaning to get back into it for a long-ass time. I was a support main forever but I've been refocusing on Top lane because I've found my besties in Gangplank and Swain.

    Promo matches are stressful AF. Especially when whether you move up or down can be beholden to your teammates doing poorly.

    For reals. I'm Top/Support, too. Mostly I just rampage across the top half of the map with Volibear. >.>



  • Dota 2's grand finales are happening right now. How has this been going? How is it meeting up to expectations, any surprise showups or stomps in the games?


  • Pitcrew

    @Selira said in The Esports thread:

    Dota 2's grand finales are happening right now. How has this been going? How is it meeting up to expectations, any surprise showups or stomps in the games?

    lol, so VERY belatedly yes. The defending champions, OG, won the grand finals against Team Liquid, making them the only team to win TI twice. They are also the only five people to have won TI twice, which is bizarre because there's basically a roster shuffle every year.

    OG is known for being VERY goofy and wholeheartedly embrace it; their philosophy is to play their professional games like any other game of Dota and just have fun. This year they had a temporary feature where you could plant a flag that had your steam profile picture on it. The following screenshot is from their first game in the upper bracket this year after they fountain dived Newbee.

    alt text

    One of the most exciting things this year was an unusual hero pick they used to crush a number of games. If you're a League player and haven't played Dota before, you might not know how different hero scaling and design can be. 'AP' doesn't exist and there are only a few abilities in the game that scale with a hero's stats. In other words, levels are more important for spell damage than items. As for design, most conventional supports in League have ultimates and abilities designed around enabling their team (CC, healing, buffs).

    That is not the case in Dota. Some of the highest damage abilities are on supports heroes. In some matches, they can singlehandedly win a team fight or win the game. Most of them can be effectively played as a mid or solo laner, they just usually aren't because items aren't as effective on them.

    This year, Ana (their position 1, the equivalent of an ADC) wanted to play position 1 Io. This is Io.

    alt text

    Io is literally a floating ball of light. He does not have eyes, hands, or feet. He cannot speak, so he communicates with the world by beeping and booping his emotions. His job, basically all he does as a hero, is tether himself to an ally unit so he can buff them, heal them or teleport them across the map for a short duration. He has one damaging ability, which summons a few orbs that float around him and explode on contact for light damage. He's a fantastic support and has only ever been played as one in professional games. He does not scale.

    Every game OG picked Io for Ana, they put all their focus on ensuring he could get gold and experience. Every hero in Dota can buy Aghanim's Scepter, which gives them a unique upgrade to one of their abilities. When Io gets Aghanim's Scepter, the balls just spawn passively around him every few seconds. If he hits level 15, he can get a talent which gives the balls a small damage boost. Support Io can never afford Scepter and the damage talent is just there to keep the ability relevant.

    But if he can hit level 15 ahead or at the same time as the other position 1/2 AND have his Scepter upgrade, the damage is basically impossible to deal with. The first game Ana picked it, everyone assumed they were picking on their opponent for being a weaker team. The second game he picked it, everyone realized it was going to be a reoccurring thing and NO ONE had prepared for it. A lot of the pro players actually spammed position 1 Io on days they didn't have games, trying to get a grip on what it was strong at and how they could counter it.

    OG did a lot of silly things with it, I think all but one of their games ended within five minutes of Ana getting the scepter/level 15 - even one where they were down 20k gold (which is a LOT) in team networth AFTER winning.

    As a consequence of Ana showcasing position 1 Io, the hero's pick rate in pub games rose dramatically and his win rate mirrored that. Except you know, in parallel because pub players aren't pro players. Ana did the right thing and issued a public apology for ruining so many games.

    After TI they nerfed Io into the ground. The end.

    Other than that, all but 3 out of the 115 heroes in Dota were picked or banned in the tournament, which I think is pretty neat and represents what I love about the game, its balance.


  • Pitcrew

    @OldFrightful Stories and tournaments where the professionals do something off the wall and interesting is why I can't stand discussions about "the meta" at all. It's effectively a matter of public opinion and a fad, and then the pro players come out and say "sup y'all, here's some weird shit to mess with your heads", and then everyone copies them like it's a game of Lemmings.

    That said, that's a great story and I don't play DotA at all (not very good at it) but I was able to follow it perfectly with what little I do know.

    To use an example with a game I do flirt with (Overwatch), people have derided on Bastion and/or Symmetra for a long time, even after the latter got a rework to the point she had to get nerfed because someone finally started proving to the internet that "HEY, SHE RIPS PEOPLE APART IF IGNORED". It's crazy how people think they know everything until they're proven wrong, because they let the preconception of "the meta" prevent them from adapting or trying new things.


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