Optional Realities & Project Redshift
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@Coin Pedantic twat.
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@Jaunt said:
@Sunny said:
Maybe this is part of the problem, @Jaunt.
The 'advertisement' board is still a place for discussion, here! Amazing.
It's not the place where we prefer to discuss changing the inherent branding and nature of our website. Your inability to understand why this is does not reflect well on your critical thinking skills.
I am not super excited about jumping in here because internet fights, meh. But really, jumping on someone's critical thinking skills when you have not figured out what happens on every other thread on this board isn't reflecting well on -you-. This is how every single advertisement goes. I'll jump in as an example. I run Kushiel's Debut, a niche MUSH that @Jeshin even played on for a bit, and I like to think he and I get along okay even though we've argued a few times on this thread. We've shook hands and made up. But take the advertisement for that game for example. It starts with some enthusiasm and then has some people jumping in with "I don't like it, here's why." (I am not active on the thread at this point because I hadn't joined the forum.) @Sunny, who was active though, shared with me what the feedback was, and I got to chat with the headwiz and decide in one case "We're not sure what this is about or that we can or wish to fix it" and in another "Ooooh, I think we know what this complaint is, yeah we could definitely improve this, etc etc" It's a discussion. You can choose to ignore any feedback or questions or critique about what you are advertising. That doesn't mean the feedback won't come. Otherwise there would just be one post on each 'Ad-ver-tise-ments' thread.
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I think @Gingerlily has a very good point here.
The way this went -- at least initially -- is more or less how other advertisements on this board go.
I'm pretty sure if I ever get to the point where I post an ad for the project I'm working on, it's going to get bitched about/at to high heaven because it's impressively niche.
But that's kinda just because that's how things go around here. It's actually not remotely personal.
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@Gingerlily & @surreality : +1
I tend to think of it more as the peer review process, honestly. If someone flames on something posted, it's rarely because they hate the poster. (Rarely, not never!) You then have two choices. You can either defend your idea using something fairly coherent and cohesive, or you can step back and re-evaluate, reformulate, come back to it later.
Either way, what universally ends up happening is a better finished product, if you approach it in this manner. If you approach it with pooflinging and 'nuh uh you shut up about mah shinies' kind of stuff, as most everyone but @Jeshin has done from OR, then yeah, you're going to get laughed out of the room, and nobody will take you seriously.
To @Jeshin -- Dude, you're in charge here, man. Step up to the plate and -do that thing-. I've seen good progress come from your direction. @Crayon and @Jaunt are so laughably bad at presenting your site that you might seriously think of revoking their posting privs, because they're alienating the people you're advertising to far more than anyone else has in your project so far.
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I think @Jeshin may need a little time, y'all. He has some RL from what he mentioned here, and call me a bleeding heart if you want, but having to go through the same not so long ago... I'm still in a world of super-mope even after a couple weeks.
So maybe let's not expect a speedy response there, is all.Oh fucking well.
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I definitely did not chime in here to demand a response from any of the OR people, @Jeshin or his co-siterunners. Just to kind of gently point out that as far as "We posted an advertisement, everyone had opinions" was kind of the way of things. Not a big deal, and in fact as I looked back a bit over the very beginnings of it months ago it was pretty chill for a while, interesting even. It just...kept going. I said all I had to say about the content months ago.
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And I note, @Gingerlily, that once you had nothing more to say you actually stopped talking. I wonder if a lesson can be drawn from that applicable to another thread that's over 500 messages deep?…
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@surreality said:
I think @Jeshin may need a little time, y'all. … So maybe let's not expect a speedy response there, is all.
Yes he now needs a little time and we should give it to him. Losing a long-standing family pet is a horrible experience and way the fuck more important than people squabbling over two boards dedicated to discussing pretendy fun time games of slightly different flavours.
But…
That being said, @crayon has been on here grating cheese with his personality for at least a month. The time to step up would have been, say, a month ago when it was becoming clear that whatever was being done wasn't working.
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@Gingerlily said:
That doesn't mean the feedback won't come.
I liked a lot of what you had to say. I think it's important to note that there is constructive feedback and feedback that is not constructive. For instance, because of feedback from this site, we will be strengthening the wording to make it more clear what the mission of our site is. That's cool. I agree with a couple of posters who've mentioned that the message isn't clear.
But, non-constructive feedback is calling us racists, elitists, bigots, idiots, and whatever else just because our site caters to a specific niche. It's inane. I've been happy to explain our position, and politely so, when I'm not approached with vitriol.
Constructive criticism is saying, "The mission stated on your site is unclear. Here are the points that are confusing to me."
Non-constructive criticism is saying, "Your site is a bunch of elitist dickwads because you don't give equal focus to the entirety of MUSHland. Because of this, you are a shitty person, your mother is a shitty person, and you're also probably a wife beater."
We've received both levels of criticism on this thread. The former will be responded to kindly and thoughtfully. The later will be responded to with the same level of ironic vitriol that it deserves.
I think that's pretty fair.
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@Jaunt said:
But, non-constructive feedback is calling us racists, elitists, bigots, idiots, and whatever else just because our site caters to a specific niche. It's inane. I've been happy to explain our position, and politely so, when I'm not approached with vitriol.
Funny how not a single person has done that. Any insults you've received - over the top or not - has not been because of your site but because of how you portray yourselves here. Your site has prompted debate. Your site's posters have prompted flame wars.
It's an important distinction and one you obviously fail to grasp.
How shocking.
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Wait, @TNP… You're saying the principals at Optional Realities/Project Redshift are not actually reading for comprehension and are instead reading what they want reality to be?
You take that back! These people are paragons of communication!
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Sometimes you just gotta take the L.
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This interesting looking stuff is topical for this time of year. In five days' time is Mid-Autumn Festival and one of the traditions of the festival is expressing your appreciation to important others in your life, usually over a cup of this stuff.
So what is this stuff? It's called "cassia wine". for some inexplicable reason. (Well it's not entirely inexplicable, but bear with me.) I guess this would technically be termed a liqueur in the west.
By standards of Chinese hooch this is week. The stuff in the photo is 20%. It's made from a single-distilled rice-based spirit and then infused with osmanthus blooms and sweetened with sugar. (Not all cassia wine is sweetened.) The taste is actually exquisite; sort of tastes like peaches but not quite, with a bit of a kinda/sorta rice vinegar undertone. (Rice-based spirits all have that undertone when single-distilled.) The high quality stuff will have been infused with the essence of a lot of osmanthus blooms leaving behind a very complex flavour with a decent sustain on the aftertaste.
So why, if the flowers are osmanthus, is this called cassia wine? Well, here's the thing: cassia and osmanthus are very closely related plants. And at some point in history, someone apparently confused the two when labelling things in English and the English name became cassia wine instead of osmanthus wine.
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This post is deleted! -
@WTFE I don't drink wine or spirits. However, I am curious as to what sort of Chinese beers are available?
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There's about a million Chinese breweries. (I'm not exaggerating by much, I don't think. There's over a hundred breweries in Wuhan alone!) They almost, but not quite, all suck. The ones from Qingdao (the city) tend to put out the best because of the history with Germans in that city. (Ironically the actual Qingdao brand itself is ... mediocre.)
Personally, I buy German (and now Czech) imports. I only drink the local beers when they're given to me at meals by well-intentioned friends.
edited to add
I think the best way to describe most local brews is, "Well, at least it isn't Budweiser or Pabst." This, in the trade, is called "damning with very faint praise".
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@ThugHeaven "The L"?
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@Jaunt said:
I liked a lot of what you had to say. I think it's important to note that there is constructive feedback and feedback that is not constructive. Blahblah blah blah blah blah.
You're still completely missing the point. Try reading for comprehension rather than reading to support preexisting biases. Nobody actually called you a racist, they used a racial analogy for what you're doing in the hopes that making it so completely clear that you would HAVE to understand the point. Oops.
If you don't want to be called stupid/an idiot, don't act it. People here aren't going to pull punches because your little feefees could get hurt. The nice thing about this place is that there's no need for me to treat you like a child; the assumption is that you're a grownup, and that when you act like an asshole, you understand that somebody calling you out on it isn't name calling to name call, they're just drawing attention to your behavior.
You're an idiot because you're not reading for comprehension, missing (purposefully or not) everyone else's point, and continuing to make a spectacle of yourself.
NONE of the things that have been flung your way are about your site catering to a specific niche.
AGAIN. None of your reception or the problem people have with you is that OR has a limited scope. None. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. So to blame your reception here on that is a complete cop out.
One more time.
Your reception here has nothing to do with OR being focused on a niche.
Idiot.
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@Jaunt said:
We've received both levels of criticism on this thread. The former will be responded to kindly and thoughtfully. The later will be responded to with the same level of ironic vitriol that it deserves.
No, it's not. The fact that you think this is precisely the reason I hope that the far more reasonable @Jeshin cuts you the hell off from posting here. You're making him, and his site, look absolutely terrible.
Do you not understand what the difference is, here? The difference is that you came here. If someone from this site were to go to yours and behave as you've behaved here, we would absolutely respond to them here just as we've responded to you. We didn't go to your site and demand that you change. YOU came HERE to advertise your site, then refused (all three of you) to participate in any sort of actual discussion (meaning give-and-take on ideas, not simple acknowledgement of their existence), which is precisely what this forum is for.
If you don't understand -that-, then you are even more deluded than I thought you were. I didn't have a horse in this race, at all, until you came along starting in with your bullshit. Get a clue -- this is our community, that is theirs, and if you want to advertise -here-, you need to engage the players here on what they want to see and discuss. And yes, DISCUSS. Compromise if necessary.
If you're unwilling to do that, then I have to agree with the others -- go the hell away and stop making Jeshin look bad, because right now you are here in an official capacity for your site, and you're acting like a miserable twat.
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A point of order, @Jaunt claims to be posting for his own amusement. Which is why I've been posting all that stuff about booze. We need something to drink for The Game
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