Optional Realities & Project Redshift
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@Thenomain I've jumped all over this thread and I just can't make any sense of it. It seems like two groups of people speaking entirely different languages and hoping to be understood
I feel like this would all be solved if everyone just agreed to make a MOO, somewhere in between a MUD and a MUSH.
RPI Hell MOO.
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I just like how apparently I have become the face of all that is wrong with MSB even after @WTFE's posts. It's just thrilling.
That's not /quite/ as funny as @Jaunt thinking I care about how he views my person at all. It's just cute.
@il-volpe I am not sure if @Thenomain was being serious or not, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Anyways I am just hoping we get an ignore thread out of this somehow. Or at least an ignore user. That'd go a long way to making things more palatable for me at least.
Regardless I've said my piece, most of it wasn't even trolling no matter what language was used. I like colorful adjectives. They are awesome.
Maybe in a little bit I'll get a hankering to continue but for now, peace.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
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@Lithium I've been reading your posts on the assumption that you are a friend of Cirno. I wonder what happened to Cirno.
Also if you are the worst of this community, we really -have- improved over WORA. I haven't even seen you troll.
You shouldn't let it get you down that some random person on the internet doesn't like you. I bet anyone being critical had terrible dinner, much worse dinner than you had. I stir-fried peas last night, I bet no one who dislikes me ate stir-fried peas and burgers cooked on a cast iron skillet.
I bet you're an amazing and productive member of society. You even have that coder tag up there. What are the people being critical of you contributing to society?
I love you and you are special, and that's all that matters!
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@il-volpe said:
You did change the statement, but it sure wasn't easy convincing you lot.
You have this twisted sort of view of things. I was convinced immediately, and I said so... many, many times. I never resisted the suggestion ... at all. We just needed to come to a consensus before we pushed the changes. It didn't take us long to make changes after that.
@HelloProject said:
This thread seems like a reasonable outcome to MUDders and MUSHers talking and trying to be productive.
Yeah, except we're not MUDers. OR doesn't care about what engine you use. I keep saying that this isn't some MUSHer vs MUDer war for us.
I feel like people are just projecting entirely different words than what I've written onto me. It makes rational conversation difficult.
@Lithium said in Optional Realities & Project Redshift:
That's not /quite/ as funny as @Jaunt thinking I care about how he views my person at all.
I don't view your person any which way. Like I've said, several times, I don't know you any better than you know me. I didn't find your argument for us to leave your community to be very compelling ... but that's really all that I know about you. I wouldn't assume more.
@Lithium said in Optional Realities & Project Redshift:
Maybe in a little bit I'll get a hankering to continue but for now, peace.
See you in the funny papers.
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I was serious about the weekly updates, but I have no problem ignoring them. The Reno crew updated weekly event updates in their thread and I don't think anyone complained about that. Maybe it was happening quietly because they are lovable scamps? Dunno.
@Lithium, I hardly think that you are all that is wrong with Soapbox, tho I may think thou doth protest too much. It's just your week trying out the gibbet. Is the rope comfortable? Enjoying the lazy swing in the wind? Okay, move along and give someone else a turn. Next!
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The pattern seems to be whoever last said something they didn't like is symbolic of all that is wrong with MU Soapbox.
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@WTFE What is wrong with MSB is that we don't have the rules to the WORA drinking game posted anywhere. I don't even remember most of them. The only one that sticks in my memory - probably because it's the most commonly occurring of them all - is:
Take a drink whenever someone says they're only posting for their own amusement.
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@WTFE said:
The pattern seems to be whoever last said something they didn't like is symbolic of all that is wrong with MU Soapbox.
Well yes, that too.
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@TNP Take a drink whenever someone who ragequit (no really!) comes back after a time talking about how nice it was to get a break and 'how much better they are now' after having taken one.
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@Jaunt said:
@il-volpe said:
You did change the statement, but it sure wasn't easy convincing you lot.
You have this twisted sort of view of things. I was convinced immediately, and I said so...
It's a collective 'you,' meaning all the OR representatives. A great deal of this thread would utterly fail to exist if OR as a collective had been immediately convinced instead of telling people here of the wrongness of their objections. A fair bit of that happened before you, Jaunt, showed up, I think. I'm not gonna read it again and check.
And once again, you're missing the point -- you are not being bullied because you have a different 'philosophy' of text-based gaming. You're being asked to meet an expected standard of behavior customary to the locale, and responding by arguing, yet claiming to be bullied when people yell at you for it.
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@il-volpe said:
And once again, you're missing the point -- you are not being bullied because you have a different 'philosophy' of text-based gaming. You're being asked to meet an expected standard of behavior customary to the locale, and responding by arguing, yet claiming to be bullied when people yell at you for it.
"Go the fuck away, nobody wants you here" is bullying. Period. A lot of the insulting @Jeshin that was happening before I showed up (that was the reason why I showed up) was bullying. Was it intended to be? Doesn't matter, that's what it was.
So let's try to make a more compelling case than that sort, moving forward.
@il-volpe said:
It's a collective 'you,' meaning all the OR representatives.
You're not talking to all of the OR representatives right now. The thrust of your conversation's been with me.
Please, tell me what the expected standard of behavior customary to the locale is for MSB. You've said this a couple of times, but without more specificity, it's not helpful to me.
And consider the idea that, perhaps, some folks here have muddied their arguments and statements by using aggressive, reactive language. (I have too, as my ironic 'mirroring' of other posters' tones didn't really land at all.) There's a reason why nobody uses that approach in actual debate in real life --- it's entirely ineffective.
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@HelloProject said:
@Thenomain I've jumped all over this thread and I just can't make any sense of it. It seems like two groups of people speaking entirely different languages and hoping to be understood
I feel like this would all be solved if everyone just agreed to make a MOO, somewhere in between a MUD and a MUSH.
RPI Hell MOO.
I wish I remembered the hack someone did to give MOO the %R%T formatting options (though I think they were $r$t; it's been a decade or more so I may be mis-remembering), or still had the old core around that used it. Because MOO almost makes sense in my head code-wise in ways MUX tries to stave in with a hammer with some regularity and some of the tools you could use with it were fantastic. The code is pretty drastically different from the player side in terms of command syntax, however, which was a huge problem. I knew some folks who addressed this, and tried to convert a lot of the commands, but lost touch with them more than a forever ago.
Oh fucking well.
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@Jaunt said:
Please, tell me what the expected standard of behavior customary to the locale is for MSB. You've said this a couple of times, but without more specificity, it's not helpful to me.
The best way to learn is to read some of the threads that aren't about OR. This thread is fun
http://musoapbox.net/topic/381/fallcoast?page=1 -
The typical is to post about your project once. If someone comments or questions, respond. Conversations ensue. I don't know of anyone else offhand who continually posts without the 'someone comments or questions' portion of the equation.
This is not a specific rule. It's the developed-over-time unwritten social agreement.
ES
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That's useful, thanks! So what I'm hearing from you is that the official moderator stance is that you prefer people to not post regular updates (say, weekly updates including new articles and contests or whatnot), but rather just advertise with the first post and then discuss from there. Is that correct?
Are there any unwritten exceptions to this rule (say, for major site changes, or extra special things)?
@Thenomain -- you would say this is accurate, too? A page or so ago you suggested that you don't see a problem with weekly updates. Is this something the two of you're in agreement on?
I'm all about a dialogue on reasonable consensus so that we're doing what we want to do without stepping on unspoken rules, whether it be weekly updates become monthly updates, or whether we narrow down our updates all-together. No updates at all doesn't seem super reasonable to me for an advertising board, but if it's really an unwritten rule that you don't do updates here, then that'd be good to know.
It's only been presented as the fierce opinion of a few people up to this point.
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@Jaunt said:
That's useful, thanks! So what I'm hearing from you is that the official moderator stance is that you prefer people to not post regular updates (say, weekly updates including new articles and contests or whatnot), but rather just advertise with the first post and then discuss from there. Is that correct?
I don't much care about the contents of this thread either way but that sounds ... hopefully and probably inadvertently like rules lawyers the world over. "Can you state exactly what the rule is so I can figure out a way that doesn't violate its exact letter and quote you later on to prove it?".
Man, be upfront about us. We're not lawyers (well, some are, but their unspeakable evil is better left unmentioned). Just post without an obvious agenda or something.
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It's not that it isn't reasonable or even that it's wrong. It's just... not done. I've seen major changes or special stuff come through, that makes sense. But we're not really for advertising in a "gotta get the market share" kind of way.
There's been no discussion between admins about what's right or reasonable because it hasn't come up. Nobody's talking to you in MOD VOICE at the moment. Theno's been laying out his personal opinions when commenting here; if and when any of us use MOD VOICE, it's marked as such, per our agreement to the users.
ES
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@surreality I actually know some people who used to run a MOO with MUSH-like features, so I'll see if the coder is still around and if they know how to do that.
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Truelands had it -- or they were the one I'm thinking of. I never played there but knew the folks who did.
MOO code, at least to me, was always
as it made more sense to me than MUX code. It has its own failings, but the verb editor was easier to learn and tinker with than MUX code has been for me.Oh fucking well.
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I have also said that I didn't mind the weekly updates. This makes three times now.
And yes, Jaunt, you are here officially representing Optional Realities. You are staff there, you are talking about it, you can't get away from that. This is the way the world works. Sorry. (Also the third time I've mentioned this.) Just because you don't want it to be this way doesn't change the world.
