The Pack Discussion

hobos

Sorry to hear that, and sorry for my assumptions.

Ares doesn't log the OOC tells? For some reason the way you were talking about it made me assume it was Ares, which I hear logs everything.

Macha

@hobos It was Ares, but no, it wasn't OOC in the logs, it was pages between us. Which, I have been told, have been wiped out with me being banned.

Tez

@Derp said in The Pack Discussion:

Pure Conjecture Follows

I will say that during my times with Cobalt, it would not at all surprise me if what went down was something closer to this:

Cobalt is interested in Isaac. Cobalt expresses that interest. Isaac reciprocates but is also doing so with various other people, which Cobalt finds out about and takes offense to. Cobalt confronts Isaac, who throws @Macha under the bus by saying how he thought it would be fine but now it’s all weird and stuff, and so Cobalt instantly goes on the offensive, declaring him an undeserved victim of harassment and removing the ~~impediment to her amorous desires~~ problem player. She then finds out about others, and suddenly her ‘victim of harassment’ is ‘on a ban watchlist for harem building’, because that’s the only way to save face at that point.

Since I can't report your post, how does this align with the behaviors expected your code of conduct?

https://musoapbox.net/topic/3704/mu-soapbox-code-of-conduct
But at no point are users to engage in personal attacks against each other. Personal attacks are anything calculated to demean, shame, or intimidate other users for any reason. Bad ideas can be called out. Questionable actions can be called out. Bad game design can be called out. But at no point should a discussion devolve into name-calling, bullying, dogpiling, or mudslinging for the sake of damaging another’s mental or emotional well-being. If you just want to name-call and vent about fellow users, there are other avenues. We suggest Reddit.

reimesu

@Tez said in The Pack Discussion:

Questionable actions can be called out.

You answered your own question.

Ghost

@Tez Question

Do you care about people name-calling or bullying, or was your intent to thumb your nose at policies and people?

Ghost

It would appear...that no one...wants to answer questions.

Ganymede

@hobos said in The Pack Discussion:

I don't see sexual assault in those logs either but I get how the pretense could be triggering to someone exposed to this exact sort of real life trauma.

I see it. Then again, I review Title IX incidents and other police reports.

Look, this is one of the reasons I don't engage with this sort of RP unless it's with someone I've known for a gazillion years. Like consensual hanky-panky I'm good with generally, but this RP is dark, personal, and potentially-triggering.

Could Isaac have been triggered? I can see it. Could he be a controlling, abusive player? I could see that as well, presuming the truth of Macha's interactions with the player.

It bears saying: be careful out there. I know that isn't a fair warning at times, but it holds as a general adage.

hobos

@Ganymede

Dark, personal, and potentially-triggering RP can be pretty great for a variety of reasons. That is, if everyone involved has enthusiastically consented to it. If not, then yeah... I can see this is definitely crossing boundaries.

I think more games could benefit from clearly-delineated xcard systems. Then you wouldn't have a situation like this where a manipulator could potentially later pretend they didn't consent, in order to get someone else in trouble and attempt to misplace blame. Everything could be in some xcard log and simple to know. Not that it's helpful for the situation right now, but that's what I'm taking away.

Ganymede

@hobos said in The Pack Discussion:

I think more games could benefit from clearly-delineated xcard systems. Then you wouldn't have a situation like this where a manipulator could potentially later pretend they didn't consent, in order to get someone else in trouble and attempt to misplace blame. Everything could be in some xcard log and simple to know. Not that it's helpful for the situation right now, but that's what I'm taking away.

I like this idea, but I don't think it helps on MUSHes.

There are many reasons why people play along with scenes which end up disturbing or triggering them. For a generation growing up online, I believe newer players are more likely to succumb to 'social pressure' to continue a role-playing scene because 'that's just what you do'. Old shits like me couldn't give two shits about it, but I earnestly believe my online sensibilities are different than those of younger or more recent players.

I've role-played through similar scenes before. Fuck, I grew up playing on Tartarus. I've had rough TS scenes end up becoming character defining (not saying that it was a great way to do it, but here we are). So I'm not going to say people are wrong for engaging in this sort of RP with players they don't know well. But I will say that there are consequences with this kind of RP, so it's probably wise to seriously consider your RP partners. I can say, with some certainty, that this sort of questionable RP happened all the damn time, but it's not a problem because none of the players involved complained.

kk

@Ganymede

I had people tell me if you don't consent will pkill you, that would still show up as a consented to scene.

Ganymede

@kk said in The Pack Discussion:

I had people tell me if you don't consent will pkill you, that would still show up as a consented to scene.

Lord knows I love you dearly, but somehow you always seem to attract the worst of the worst.

kk

@Ganymede

I know! I am kicking myself. I need to make some major changes.

Ganymede

@kk said in The Pack Discussion:

I need to make some major changes.

I don't think so. I mean, you meet a lot of good people too. It's not how you go about your business as much as setting limits. I've faith.

kk

@Ganymede

Means a lot you feel that way. I am going to work on some boundary enforcement, confident building, will try. and think its time for me to to stop posting for a bit.

Ghost

@kk That's the hardest part; setting boundaries.

On one hand, you don't want to say something that will judge/dodge you out of roleplay, so you (rhetorical you) do your best to come across as easy to work with and accommodating. On the other hand, not setting boundaries up front is something 10x easier to do with someone you already have rapport with. Sometimes players will outright decide not to RP with you if you say you're not looking for TS or relationship RP. There's definitely a subtle art to asserting your boundaries -and- coming across as worth roleplaying with.