Dec 23, 2015, 9:55 PM
@DnvnQuinn
My apologies.
I retract my previous statement regarding it, then, but why did you not declare it earlier?
I declare my race, gender, and sexuality frequently to avoid mixups.
RL Anger
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@Cirno said:
@Glitch said:
Homogeneous groups become echo chambers of stale ideas and beliefs. Without constant exposure to outside influence, chances for empathy or understanding of those outside the group is slim.
But what do we stand to gain from understanding white people? How does it meaningfully impact our lives?
Fiiine, I'll get into this.
... It might help to do away with notions of 'us' and 'them'?
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@Cirno said:
@DnvnQuinn said:
@Three-Eyed-Crow said:
@DnvnQuinn said:
segregate colleges
This word maybe does not mean what you think it means.
"separate or divide (people, activities, or institutions) along racial, sexual, or religious lines."
Means exactly what I think it means. There are a group of BLM folks who wants places that White people cannot go into.
A small question: would this impact the lives of white people in any way?
I mean, a goodly sized number of white people tend to move out of neighborhoods as soon as black people move in, and you don't really hear white people saying, "I wanna be around black people!"
The problem is they are pressuring colleges to set up these safe places. Which means they want the academic authority to segregate white people from black people. The answer is not to encourage racist actions on the black folks side but encourage understanding between the two colors. The act of preventing white people from entering a place based on the color of their skin is the same thing the black's fought to get rid of. Turning around and doing the same things (like your "White people harassed blacks, so...it's not bad when black folks do it to whites" suggestion above) helps absolutely no one.
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It's not a one-way street, @Cirno. And seriously, how does it meaningfully impact your lives? Well, considering BLM is based on the premise that some cops are more likely to use deadly violence against black people, it seems a better understanding and integration could help. Also, pulling away gives little in the way of a voice to a disadvantaged group, which means it's even less likely there will be meaningful change in police procedure.
Like it or not, communication is the only way to foster any sort of understanding. If you've given up on that, then there are not many places this conversation can go.
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@DnvnQuinn said:
The act of preventing white people from entering a place based on the color of their skin is the same thing the black's fought to get rid of. Turning around and doing the same things (like your "White people harassed blacks, so...it's not bad when black folks do it to whites" suggestion above) helps absolutely no one.I disagree. Pretty much all of North America is a safe space for straight white people. Having Safe Space areas on campuses for minorities can be really helpful for building up mental health support networks.
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@SG said:
@DnvnQuinn said:
The act of preventing white people from entering a place based on the color of their skin is the same thing the black's fought to get rid of. Turning around and doing the same things (like your "White people harassed blacks, so...it's not bad when black folks do it to whites" suggestion above) helps absolutely no one.I disagree. Pretty much all of North America is a safe space for straight white people. Having Safe Space areas on campuses for minorities can be really helpful for building up mental health support networks.
Safe spaces? Are you fucking kidding me? Either ALL ARE EQUAL before the law or NO ONE is. There's no in between. Why does anyone need a safe space? Shouldn't people learn to live with eachother? This reeks of intellectual dishonesty to me.
And @Ganymede has it right with her response. For fuck's sake.
And @Cirno, I do support law enforcement. But then, I live in a shithole that's nowhere near North America and you don't know how good you've got until you've become a statistic every time you get out of the house. My cousin yesterday got robbed by walking to the bakery by the corner of his street.
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@SG I'm against preventing anyone from going anywhere based on their skin color.
That being said, Colleges are for education. Not for providing health services. If we begin providing safe places based on skin color, where do we start. If black people get safe places, then white people, Asians, Indians, they should also get safe places. If we can do this based on skin color, why not gender identity and sexuality? Straight safe places, gay safe places, bisexual safe places, transgendered safe places, Furry safe places (Who decides whats a valid sexuality after all? What about religions? Need one for all of those, then what about social and economic status?
Where do the resources come from providing all these safe places? Whose paying for the staff member to oversee them? Whose paying the security to force these segregating standards?
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That is unlikely as long as black people and white people are different shades, thus irrevocably dividing the races into us vs. Them.
Have you considered that black people can stop police violence by forming armed militias?
It worked for Cliven Bundy and the Tea Party, remember them?
There are already armed black militias taking shape; Google the Asafo Gun Club and the Huey P. Newton gun club.
I have a gun, and three people is legally considered a militia; you are all more than welcome to arm yourselves and join me.
We shall call ourselves the WORA Panther Gun Club, and it will be crossracial and progressive, since, apparently, now white people want to be part of our sphere all of a sudden.
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@DnvnQuinn said:
The act of preventing white people from entering a place based on the color of their skin is the same thing the black's fought to get rid of. Turning around and doing the same things (like your "White people harassed blacks, so...it's not bad when black folks do it to whites" suggestion above) helps absolutely no one.
That's kind of relative though. To give you a counter-example I took exception a few years ago when I was told I wouldn't necessarily be welcome at a lesbian joint, as I couldn't understand why. I'm not homophobic, I have no issues with gay rights and it's not like I'd go in and stare at people or act weird, so how come?
But there are places people go to feel comfortable. It's not about me, it's about them.
There is still a line to be drawn somewhere but it's not probably prudent to draw it in favor of the more privileged groups in existence. It's what it is.
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@deadculture said:
@SG said:
@DnvnQuinn said:
The act of preventing white people from entering a place based on the color of their skin is the same thing the black's fought to get rid of. Turning around and doing the same things (like your "White people harassed blacks, so...it's not bad when black folks do it to whites" suggestion above) helps absolutely no one.I disagree. Pretty much all of North America is a safe space for straight white people. Having Safe Space areas on campuses for minorities can be really helpful for building up mental health support networks.
Safe spaces? Are you fucking kidding me? Either ALL ARE EQUAL before the law or NO ONE is. There's no in between. Why does anyone need a safe space? Shouldn't people learn to live with eachother? This reeks of intellectual dishonesty to me.
And @Ganymede has it right with her response. For fuck's sake.
And @Cirno, I do support law enforcement. But then, I live in a shithole that's nowhere near North America and you don't know how good you've got until you've become a statistic every time you get out of the house. My cousin yesterday got robbed by walking to the bakery by the corner of his street.
As a privileged majority white person, you already occupy a safe space, so I am not surprised you don't see the need for them.
And I find your false outrage at the idea objectionable and unnecessary. Why are you threatened by the concept of minority safe spaces?
There are Indian reservations, gay bars, Lesbian bars, and nobody bats an eye, but suggesting there should be an all-black space makes people lose their minds!
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@Ganymede said:
@Thenomain said:
So then either all lives matter, no lives matter, or the truth is somewhere in between.
I just tell people: to me, your life does not matter.
So I take it you won't be joining the "Asians for Black Lives Matter" group?
It exists and you can Google them.
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@Cirno You're making a very large assumption about my skin color. I'm African American and Native American, with a smattering of Irish. I'm light skinned yes, but my family isn't.
I'm fine with their being safe places OUTSIDE of college. I don't think the Colleges should be involved. I don't think demanding the colleges to provide these safe places is right.
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@DnvnQuinn
My apologies.
I retract my previous statement regarding it, then, but why did you not declare it earlier?
I declare my race, gender, and sexuality frequently to avoid mixups.
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@Cirno Because I'm of the mind that the less we make a big deal about our differences, and focus on the things that connect us the better. So I only mention it when other people ask or apply colors, religions or sexual preferences in my place.
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@DnvnQuinn
Fair enough. I had thought you were afraid people would have said you were pretending to be black to troll people, which is a real thing people say.
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@Cirno I'm more Native American than African American, and my Irish ancestors were both indentured rail workers and slave owners, while my African American ancestors also owned slaves and were slaves, so it gets really confusing what I should be outraged about and smug about...ugh...I have a headache now. Lol.
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Let me just upload a picture of myself, by the way.
Any questions?
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@DnvnQuinn said:
Where do the resources come from providing all these safe places? Whose paying for the staff member to oversee them? Whose paying the security to force these segregating standards?
I believe they're usually started as student clubs. I think funding usually comes from Student Unions as far as other clubs are funded, though I do see a lot of fundraising done by the organizations themselves in the Universities I've been to.
As for who gets them, in my experience, it's usually who sees a need and organizes one, typically it's an LGBT group or a women's group.
Usually there's no security needed, but if some asshole shows up and starts being a dick, the organizers I've met are usually trained in deescalation, and if that doesn't work, campus security shows up to trespass the person. It probably varies depending on campus culture.
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@Cirno said:
Let me just upload a picture of myself, by the way.
I frequently wish for the WORA archive, but I did not think I'd ever look back fondly on the "people accuse Cirno of not being black and he proves them wrong" thread.
We grow nostalgic about very strange things, as the years pass.
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@Cirno said:
Have you considered that black people can stop police violence by forming armed militias?
It worked for Cliven Bundy and the Tea Party, remember them?
I don't see that as anything even approaching a solution. I doubt it will ever be a thing, but you know what would happen? A lot more black people die and things get way worse for them at a little more inconvenience for "white folk". Positions harden, whatever support there had been for the message of black people evaporates and then it's just angry people fighting to fight and most likely dying.
So no, I won't be joining your militia.
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@Cirno Actually I could not care less about whether you make bars that are black-exclusive. 'Safe spaces' is basically sheltering yourself from reality, but I suppose you can make meeting places that are race-specific if you want.
Best of luck with your militia, though.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go lord my privilege over some minorities since the night is young.