RL Anger

Shebakoby

@Shebakoby said:

As a result, millions of canadians can no longer find a family doctor, and thus have precisely 0 access to specialists.

Are you one of those millions of Canadians? Because, as a Canadian, I was, and am, not.

Nor was my mother, who was diagnosed (again) with thyroid cancer. She was diagnosed within 2 weeks, and had surgery scheduled 3 weeks later. She could have gotten in earlier, but she was busy traveling.

The funny thing about these stories is that I've never actually met a Canadian that ever had a problem getting a required surgery done. I've also never actually met a Canadian that ever had to wait for a cancer scan longer than 2 weeks. And I've known plenty of them.

I have, however, met and read the records for dozens of Americans who have been the victims of medical malpractice. I've read medical malpractices cases for scores more. And this is only in the State of Ohio.

People like to attribute the Canadian horror stories to OMG Canada's health care system sucks. You should check out the actual number of Americans who have been the victims of their own health care system. I think you'll conclude, as I have, that whether the system is a single-payer public system or a oligopolistic private system is immaterial. You will likely conclude that doctors, nurses, health care professionals, and their patients make mistakes.

I think you will also conclude, as I have, that medical professionals that don't have to worry about coverage issues or costs will be able to spend more time training and researching than balancing monthly budgets.

Yeah but where in Canada are you? A large city in a well-populated province? It really all depends on where you live. Large provinces with enormous population centers such as Ontario, Quebec, and big cities in the well-populated Maritimes won't have as much trouble as say, someone in a western community with less access.

I know several people, some in my own community, who have had trouble, and LOTS of it, getting care for various things. Not everyone has trouble getting care, true, but I've seen it happen. I myself have been on the recieving end of long wait times. I had an MRI scheduled...TWO YEARS to wait. I am not even joking. Then I had a follow up, two years after that. It was snowing pretty good on the day of my second scan but I got dad to drive me in his 4 wheel drive and we MADE it. (this was not for cancer, it was for suspicion of Multiple Sclerosis, but still). A family member's wait to have orthoscopic knee surgery took so long that they simply refused to do it because of reaching a certain age. It should have been done.

I'm lucky, my doctor hasn't retired yet. But in another few years, I MIGHT wind up as one of those millions of Canadians.

I'm not saying American health care is perfect, or anything close. Far from it. I have relatives in the states, so I have heard a few horror stories on the other side of the border. But neither am I saying that Canada's sucks (or sucks worse). The US system has pros and cons, and same with the Canadian system. But we shouldn't pretend that there are no flaws, or that the flaws are insignificant, in the Canadian system. Several things need addressing, not the least of which is the problem of attracting new doctors, and doing something about allowing immigrants who would be perfectly qualified doctors to actually practice as doctors (after say a preliminary examination to ensure their knowledge is up to par). We need to acknowledge the problems so that we can pressure our various members of parliament to get it fixed.

Doctors retiring and not having locums to fill in for them or even anyone to take over their practice are now a serious problem near where I live. There aren't enough doctors to fill in the gaps. There was a huge story in the paper about it several weeks ago, in fact.

BigDaddyAmin

A lot of libertarians and a few anarcho-capitalists (in particular the shrill Stefan Molyneux bots) tend to all agree that if you want to control people you control their health care. I disagree with that. Maybe if we weren't investing in the military industrial complex, not to mention supporting countries that we shouldn't be in the first place, perhaps a really great health care system would be at our fingertips as Americans and quite possibly an economically good decision.

And I think it all depends on where you are at. I live in Wyoming and where I am at, the nearest endocrinologist for my wife is in Rapid City, South Dakota. Aside from the odd trip that we make once a year to visit to check up on her A1C levels (which we normally make a weekend out of, filled with shopping and stuff we cannot do in our neck-o-the-woods), we find that her general practitioner can do quite a bit.

A few years ago before the pre-existing condition issues abounded, it would have been unthinkable for us to pay into our own health care. Now, we can, though thankfully I get good insurance through my employer.

WTFE

@Shebakoby said:

Some Canadians actually have to go have important tests (MRI, for instance) in the USA because the waiting list for the same test in Canada is over 2 years now.

Ah, this old Tea Party shibboleth.

No. No, this is flatly untrue. If you want an MRI test against the advice of your doctor, then yes, you'll wait forever. But when my father had his stroke, in the depths of the wilds of B.C. (Prince George), he was in the MRI in under four hours.

I call Tea Party bullshit here.

People who need knee replacements have had to endure even longer waits (up to 5 years).

Docs or it didn't happen. ("I saw it on Fox" doesn't count as docs, just to be clear. Hell, "I saw it on an American news channel" doesn't count as docs.)

People have died of cancer before they could get some kinds of tests.

Yeah. If you don't go to your doctor for twenty-five years and come in when the cancer has already passed the point of no return, you're probably fucked. You'd be fucked in the USA too, but at least your wallet will be hoovered clean first.

So again, "docs or it didn't happen". (And again, "Fox News" or American news in general doesn't count.)

silentsophia

Yeah. I tried for indigent health care as Texas won't give medicaid to me (lol no kids) and the lady just yelled at me. I really hope whomever employs me offers decent insurance. Hooray 300 dollar a month inhalers~

Shebakoby

@WTFE said:

@Shebakoby said:

Some Canadians actually have to go have important tests (MRI, for instance) in the USA because the waiting list for the same test in Canada is over 2 years now.

Ah, this old Tea Party shibboleth.

No. No, this is flatly untrue. If you want an MRI test against the advice of your doctor, then yes, you'll wait forever. But when my father had his stroke, in the depths of the wilds of B.C. (Prince George), he was in the MRI in under four hours.

I call Tea Party bullshit here.

People who need knee replacements have had to endure even longer waits (up to 5 years).

Docs or it didn't happen. ("I saw it on Fox" doesn't count as docs, just to be clear. Hell, "I saw it on an American news channel" doesn't count as docs.)

People have died of cancer before they could get some kinds of tests.

Yeah. If you don't go to your doctor for twenty-five years and come in when the cancer has already passed the point of no return, you're probably fucked. You'd be fucked in the USA too, but at least your wallet will be hoovered clean first.

So again, "docs or it didn't happen". (And again, "Fox News" or American news in general doesn't count.)

What are you even talking about? What is this Tea Party you're on about? I'm talking about stuff I've actually seen/experienced/was in the paper. And I live in pretty much total NDP land. I personally waited for an MRI, TWICE, for 2 years each time. And NO, it was NOT against the advice of the doctor.

People who are in the emergency room tend to get expedited tests. When I injured my eye two years ago, and went to the emergency room, I was at the opthamologist on instant referral the same day. Emergency room care for serious things, is VERY GOOD, mostly. But unless cancer lands someone in the emergency room, it's highly unlikely that it'll be expedited as quickly as an MRI for an immediate stroke. You are comparing apples to oranges.

We do not even get Fox News. We do not watch US news except for maybe CNN if something major is happening like 9/11, so uh what? This was a person I personally know. When the person turned 80 they just said "F it, we're not giving you surgery to fix your knee". This happened. The person is now 95. This could have been fixed BEFORE they turned 80 if the system gave a crap, and it would have made a HUGE difference in quality of life.

The moral of the story is people fall through the cracks in both systems. Way more in the other one because of the whole money thing (not to mention a MUCH larger population), but still. Improvements could be made to prevent this.

Silver

@Shebakoby said:

The moral of the story is people fall through the cracks in both systems. Way more in the other one because of the whole money thing (not to mention a MUCH larger population), but still. Improvements could be made to prevent this.

There is an element of political rah-rah in the US (I'm sure it exists everywhere really) that begins its day by making assumptions about what you mean when you say anything disagreeing with them. They also think that the Real News that they listen to is superior to the Fake News other people hear, or even sometimes to the Real Life you live. Sometimes that particular fight happens with the battle cry "anecdotes are not evidence!" or "show me notarized documents" or some variant thereof.

Don't worry about it too much.

Ganymede

@Shebakoby said:

I'm not saying American health care is perfect, or anything close. Far from it. I have relatives in the states, so I have heard a few horror stories on the other side of the border. But neither am I saying that Canada's sucks (or sucks worse). The US system has pros and cons, and same with the Canadian system. But we shouldn't pretend that there are no flaws, or that the flaws are insignificant, in the Canadian system.

So, then, we concur on this point.

Canada's problem with access in remote (or rural) areas is a huge problem. That's not what is raised down here in the United States as an issue, though. Americans are paranoid for all the wrong reasons, which is why I feel it is important to point out that those fears are insubstantial.

It's a little different down here because there are large populations where access isn't the issue; cost is. And yet, there are still access issues in places like Nevada, Wyoming, and Montana.

So, if I were to trade the American private system with Canada's public system, I'd take the latter because the American private system still suffers from the same problems as Canada's.

(Edit: My brother is a Canadian physician who has worked in Vancouver and now Ottawa. He gives me updates from his end, along with my schoolmates that are also in the medical profession.)

Hella

@Ganymede Damn I wish he still worked in Vancouver. I would give my <insert whatever here> for a good GP.

Gingerlily

My RL peeve/anger is that they've been selling school supplies for like two weeks already. I've only been on summer break for two weeks. I don't want to see the pencils and the crayons yet. I know, sales, get the good bargain first, but NO.

I know some teachers say "The summers off is a myth, we work all year round, conferences, blah, etc" and that is very valid for some, and I did attend a state conference and am working (leisurely) at two online classes for credit, but no. It's a summer off. It is noon and I am in yoga wear but have not decided if I want to do yoga yet. Love me, hate me, think I am the savior of the future or a mooch off of your precious tax dollars, I get it, I've heard it all. But I am on vacation, so Target, put the pencils BACK until August. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants a backpack or a schoolbox. LEAVE US BE.

Coin

@Gingerlily said:

My RL peeve/anger is that they've been selling school supplies for like two weeks already. I've only been on summer break for two weeks. I don't want to see the pencils and the crayons yet. I know, sales, get the good bargain first, but NO.

I know some teachers say "The summers off is a myth, we work all year round, conferences, blah, etc" and that is very valid for some, and I did attend a state conference and am working (leisurely) at two online classes for credit, but no. It's a summer off. It is noon and I am in yoga wear but have not decided if I want to do yoga yet. Love me, hate me, think I am the savior of the future or a mooch off of your precious tax dollars, I get it, I've heard it all. But I am on vacation, so Target, put the pencils BACK until August. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants a backpack or a schoolbox. LEAVE US BE.

I always like to point out that the "summer vacation" is also just plain fucking necessary. I get it, your office job is tedious and is slowly driving you crazy. But believe me, it has absolutely nothing on dealing with children or adolescence for nine to ten months straight.

Gingerlily

I mean, I greatly enjoy a few weeks to spend lazing about with MY OWN child, whom I often neglect during the year because the dozens of other needy munchkins whom I also love but did not birth suck at my brain capacity, and sometimes my soul, so that by the time I get home I need to just flop for a while and cannot be the "Can we go to the park? Do you want to paint something?" because I have done park duty twice and painted many things already, and that is bad and I am bad and typing it makes me -feel bad- but at least there is the glorious, glorious summer, where she is the only tiny person who wants my <3.

Gingerlily

I mean, theoretically, because now she is ignoring me to watch Peppa Pig, but I ASKED her if she wanted to go outside to the park.

Coin

@Gingerlily said:

I mean, theoretically, because now she is ignoring me to watch Peppa Pig, but I ASKED her if she wanted to go outside to the park.

Luuuuuuulz.

silentsophia

I'm gonna start a diet!

Family: LET US GO TO THE BUFFET.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

2mspris

@Gingerlily said:

But I am on vacation, so Target, put the pencils BACK until August. Nobody wants to see that. Nobody wants a backpack or a schoolbox. LEAVE US BE.

We go back to school on August 5th. We're on what they refer to as an "extended year calendar" where the public schools here start the first part of August and go through the first few days of June. And since I have to budget all the stuff needed for return to school into other costs of summer (Almost $400 spent towards summer marching band! Plus the pending $300 book fees I'll have coming.) this is the month I start having to buy that stuff to get ready.

Ganymede

@silentsophia said:

I'm gonna start a diet!

Family: LET US GO TO THE BUFFET.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

I like salad bars. Buffets tend to have nice ones.

silentsophia

@Ganymede Yeah, it was alright. I got some salad and stuff. But that chocolate pie.

Insomnia

Getting a fungal infection because you've been on antibiotics for so long.

Misadventure

Is this the wrong time to mention Pretty Dead?

Insomnia

Zombie infections don't last as long.