@BetterJudgment All of those fall under "attempting to educate" except for the wealth-sharing measures, and making these people better-off without also educating them would probably just encourage more kids. Thus, education is the only truly effective way forward.
Of course, most of the stories of welfare abuse are just political talking points parroted back by people who haven't actually looked into the situation.
Are there abuses? Sure. Are they the majority? Are they a significant minority? Are they to any degree making any dent in the budgets intended for those programs? No.
People with children 'grow' the economy (or at least the capitalist economy) better than those who don't, because they're supplying the future cheap labor. That's why it's in the government's best interest to provide them with assistance, so their children can grow up to be exploited by the 'machine'. Without future workers, capitalism would suffer. Therefore those who make (and benefit from) the rules, will inevitably favor that which keeps them making profit.
I'm not saying this is right, or fair. It is what it is, though.
@VulgarKitten said:
People with children 'grow' the economy (or at least the capitalist economy) better than those who don't, because they're supplying the future cheap labor.
That's actually incorrect. Population growth is actually bad for a capitalist economy, especially if technology is not improving (it's not).
For those who object to how TANF altered the nature of social welfare, we can all thank Bill Clinton and his Congressional Republican blackmailers.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
Worst thing about re-entering the world of having a baby/toddler after a decades long absence: having to deal with the mommy wars again.
No, whether or not you are a 'full time mom' (God that term disgusts me) or you are employed doesn't matter for shit for how happy/well adjusted/smart your kids are.
Once you are past the preschool years, nobody gives a shit if you sleep trained your child, gave the m&ms to potty train them, how long or if you breastfed, ect. They just don't. Unless you cloister or helicopter your tweens to death, once they get to that stage they'll have friends who were raised differently than you raised them in the early years, and imagine this: they can all be wonderful, awesome children that you might come to care for very much and enjoy their parents too even if like 6 years previously you would have looked down on them for eschewing the stroller for a sling/ZOMG giving their children snacks with HFCS/Spanking/Not-Spanking.
Once you're out of that stage, nobody asks, nobody gives a shit. It doesn't matter, no matter how many people making a million bucks over getting you to disdain everyone else tell you different. It just doesn't. Unless you're a tool.
If you work, you're awesome. If you trade in employment to stay home and it's what you want to do/need to do, that's awesome too. You really don't need to rip on the other side to justify where you are.
This message prompted by being told by one of social moms groups I used to belong to when my older 3 were young that really it's for "people who have chosen to stay home and raise their children" when I was asked what I did before kids on the app and I put what I did and that a currently own my own business. I don't remember that sort of thing being asked when I used to be part of it, but...it wasn't on my radar (and I didn't have my own biz so it never came up). Blargh.
@Ganymede said:
That's actually incorrect. Population growth is actually bad for a capitalist economy, especially if technology is not improving (it's not).
I disagree. Overpopulation is bad for a capitalist economy. Population growth itself is necessary for a capitalist economy. If there were fewer people to do the slaving and consuming, profits would be smaller. So long as the birth rate doesn't exceed the replacement level by more than a certain percentage, population growth is extremely beneficial.
@mietze That is utterly insane. The other mothers don't invite me to their reindeer games. I thought it was the violently neon and then pastel hair. The saddest goth mom latched onto me until I had to tell her to back off, we're not friends. (Sounds mean but omg quit calling to talk to me about some stupid nightmare before Christmas snow globe you found. Holy shit I grew out of that in my 20s) Now I just think it's likely my winning personality. I can only put up with mom wars for so long. Don't tell me that having an only child is the worst, or that I need to get out there and find a husband.
Appearance I'm sure is a factor in some areas, not so much mine, depending on where you are. But...it's tiresome. It's been interesting having been one of the younger moms in my circle of acquaintences for awhile, especially when considering # of kids, and now being one of the older people. I've never had a lot of issues finding some people to hang with, but...considering how most of my current friends-who-are-also-parents-RL are parenting all tweens/teens/adults I figured I'd try to expand a bit. I just frankly forgot how much people care about stuff like that. 
Texas' sex ed is... abysmal and they've been tearing apart Planned Parenthood.
I'm sorry the conversation turned this way. I didn't mean to turn it into bash on parents hour. It's just frustrating that my options are far more limited due to childlessness. I'm not having kids on account of massive mental illness and health issues and I don't think I could give them the care kids need.
The indigent health care (for adults who can't get medicaid) place was awful. The lady screamed at me and I ended up just leaving.
Edit: And yikes. I've only seen some mommy wars from the sidelines. I've honestly stayed friends with most of the parents on my list and I understand that seeing them is a treat, not a regular thing like when I was doing my first degree and everyone didn't have kids, so more free time, etc. etc.
@silentsophia Where do you live? Not near a city I take it?
Fun? What is this fun thou speakest of?
@Luna Smaller city. But yeah, the safety net here has more holes than a piece of cloth after a fight with a tommy gun.
That's not a bug, that's a feature.
@Sammi said:
@BetterJudgment All of those fall under "attempting to educate" except for the wealth-sharing measures, and making these people better-off without also educating them would probably just encourage more kids. Thus, education is the only truly effective way forward.
Too often, "education" means, "Here's how your could pull yourself up by your own bootstraps by being a good consumer and respectful corporate citizen. That is, if you had boots." Yes, real education is necessary (which is probably why college dropout Scott Walker and the plutocrats who have their collective hand in his colon pulling the strings that make his mouth move are crowing about decimating education in Wisconsin), but it is all necessary.
@silentsophia Ok that makes more sense. Trust me in that Texas offers very different experiences depending on where you live. It seems like you should be on disability and you would likely have more luck in a city. Here you would go to the UT med center mental health place.
I had great sex Ed in high school. I had a very different experience being from Houston than you get in other parts of Texas.
Fun? What is this fun thou speakest of?
@BetterJudgment Scott Walker was predicted 30 years ago in Robocop, down to the state.
It's almost eerie.
@Luna, I nearly read that as:
I had great sex. Ed in high school.
(No, I've never stopped being 14 years old.)
@BetterJudgment
I did not notice that til you pointed it out. Made me giggle.
@BetterJudgment I totally walked right into that one!
My poor SO had to work all weekend. There was no real point to even coming home to sleep as he just would have had to go in again almost right away.
I have a horrible time sleeping alone. Bah! I have not really been to bed yet.
@VulgarKitten said:
I disagree. Overpopulation is bad for a capitalist economy. Population growth itself is necessary for a capitalist economy.
No, it's not.
Overpopulation is a result, as scarcity is a provable presumption. Population growth is not a necessity.
I internet-challenge you to point to a credible study that says otherwise.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
