Space Lords and Ladies

[Bobotron]

@Misadventure
OH GOD MAKE IT NOW I MUST BE PLAVA LAGUNA.

Seriously. I would make Space Singer Lady and run with it.

[Misadventure]

I would make The Messengers, and have them be highly sophisticated artificial constructs that are actually puppets of extra dimensional AIs. They are mo aristocraty, an mo pretty, and mo way beyond your ken than any Noble, and they are also seeking Clients.

Perhaps Client States.

Perhaps Client Bodies.

[Jennkryst]

@Bobotron said:

@BigDaddyAmin
Warhammer 40k space elves.

If we're being proper nerds, we will point out that Eldar is Elf in Tolkein elvish, and 40k up and stole it, buuuut. We won't be.

[mietze]

In my observation it's pretty hard to keep nobles going AND guildie/privateer types going, especially once fief politics and resources are adding in. It's less staff intensive to provide challenges fief side, but if you have PCs that need exploration that seems to cause a lot of problems. Not because it wouldn't be fun so much as it's hard for any staff activity dependent thing to keep rolling along through what seems to be pretty inevitable highs and lows of activity levels on staff part.

Has anyone seen a game where there was both noble politics/or high noble activity AND high adventuring/ship based play? I've seen either/or, including on places that wanted to provide both. With a lot of people feeling frustrated/ignored/useless on the places that wanted to have it all.

Is there a way to tie things together? A mechanic that draws PCs together, like rewarding Space Duke for incorporating PC privateers/captains rather than their on-paper assets? I like Ganymede's idea on Reno to have willng players taking on staff outlined or fed plots, maybe that could be used to help with giving explorers/captains something to do other than ts on the deck or hang out at the port bar?

[Packrat]

@mietze said:

Is there a way to tie things together? A mechanic that draws PCs together, like rewarding Space Duke for incorporating PC privateers/captains rather than their on-paper assets? I like Ganymede's idea on Reno to have willng players taking on staff outlined or fed plots, maybe that could be used to help with giving explorers/captains something to do other than ts on the deck or hang out at the port bar?

My idea there would be that the player character Space Nobles are also The Best at whatever their thing is, with character generation pitched so that they are normally at least pretty competent (For genetically engineered Space Nobles) at other stuff expected of them. So if the Space Duchess wants to send a ship to achieve something she could send an NPC ship - but the PC ship with Space Chris Tatum, Space Scarlet Johansson and Space Harry Bellie on it will do far better. Even if Space Chris Tatum's main thing is that he is great at Space Opera he is still a competent Space Knight and a match for a hundred space marines or a half dozen Space Elves and thus really handy to have along.

[FiranSurvivor]

Make there be a patronage system. There can be individual captains (and make it so a single PC can fully captain a ship. They don't need a PC engineer and a PC navigator, but if they want one, sure, otherwise NPCs fill the roles) but a Captain can only do so much, they need to be sponsored by a noble and nobles wheel and deal to form their own personal fleets ala some kind of Roman Legion system where the loyalty is not necessary to the state.

[Misadventure]

Patronage is exactly what I was thinking. Allow patronage as long as it has a cultural angler, such as exploration, creating client states and so on. You could even go with the Victorian era idea that Peers don't earn money, and so limit how much obvious money making a Noble Family can do and not appear to be gauche or desperate. AND that could lead into marrying into wealthy filthy new money type decisions.

[mietze]

There will need to be things for the captains to do, though, rather than just fill out some other guy/gal's roster. This is where I've seen it fail.

[Bobotron]

Y'know, space lords and ladies set on some colonization ship/fleet wouldn't be a bad way to spin that, thinking about some things. The main colony ship, with the different divisions, and then internal politics for the leadership and such. I will post more thoughts on it when I am less tired (or perhaps will realize it's a bad idea once I've been able to sleep).

[BigDaddyAmin]

As a thought to Bobotron's idea there was a recent show on the SyFy channel called Ascension. I think it was cancelled but the premise is about a generation ship that launched during the Cold War of the 1950s. However, it turns out to be a social experiment (the generation ship is actually a contained fabrication for the subjects and their descendants to test out the possibility of long-term sublight spaceflights).

Maybe a generation ship of aliens? With a set nobility and caste system?

[Pyrephox]

@mietze said:

There will need to be things for the captains to do, though, rather than just fill out some other guy/gal's roster. This is where I've seen it fail.

This is one place where having different "spheres", with dedicated staffers, would actually be a good idea. Where the characters of all types are expected to interact socially/politically, but they all have a staffer that's in charge of Their Stuff. So, a planet-side staffer who handles the plantation things, including slave unrest, crop failures/disasters/etc and planet-side politics (this would be the most lords-and-ladies-like sphere, perhaps with shiny positions to compete for, like planetary governor and advisory council that set things like import/export tarriffs, laws about how slaves/workers are treated, etc.); a port staffer who handles the needs of the spaceport caste, including upkeep/maintenance on ports, dictates from the Distant Space Trade Emperor, and smuggler/pirate events that focus on the ports (in my head, the spaceport caste play would be very like Babylon 5, with hosting diplomats, dealing with contraband and sabateours, having to juggle the good of the locals with the dictates of far-flung superiors); and a voyage staffer who handles Space Adventure stuff and starship maintenance and upkeep things (leaning towards the Firefly end of 'play out the interesting bits').

[Packrat]

My thought with the vague outline I gave above was to have things less clearly demarcated than that – but if you are playing the Space Captain of an Imperial Space Battleship then you have... Well, a Space Battleship, you are also probably the cousin of somebody who is more traditionally a Space Countess, but you are at least allegedly trying to further the goals of the Space Emperor.

Actual physical contact rather than minimal communication with the Space Empire is 20 years away though and Space Battleships need Space Fuel and Space Ammunition to keep going, you also probably need Space Conscripts to keep the thing crewed or to invade planets. A Space Count cannot just conscript you though – you have contacts, you have some kind of authority from the nominal superior power, you have a Space Battleship.

The same for the person who is the Space Governor, no doubt separated from the Space Battleships quite deliberately. Nominally, people have to do what you say, you can send nastigrams about them back to the Space Emperor as well, but your direct power would be rather limited. On the other hand if you send messages to the Space Emperor about how great somebody is then that is a huge boon to them and their family and you no doubt have your own personal resources as well as the right to say, tax all interstellar trade by 15%. Maybe you also have terrifying auditors.

So, now added, some thoughts on resources and economy to try to keep it simple and encourage people to do stuff.

Basic resources would be:

Manpower – Retainers, conscripts or volunteers, access to people for projects like manning factories, staffing Moon Palaces or forming military units. NOT transferable.
Slaves– Manpower can be converted into slaves but not back again, can also be used for manning factories, staffing moon palaces or forming Janissary type military units but in a more limited manner, can also be transferred or traded freely.
Wealth – Money, mundane manufactured goods, used for construction projects, building low tech space craft, equipping armies, hosting lavish parties.
Rare Elements – Used to make high tech items in a starship's nano factory. A Space Noble's panoply, small spacecraft, the high tier stuff used by Space Nobles personally.

Social resources would be:

Prestige – How socially important you are and are expected to be in future, can be gained through extravagant spending and decadence, hosting, demonstrating Imperial Favour and holding important offices. Can be used to influence NPCs or destroy other people's social resources (either Glory or Prestige)
Glory – How badass you are and how much you are seen to embody the ideal Space Noble, gained by fighting Space Elves, crushing revolts, winning duels or showing people up in other contests or demonstrations of skill and ability. Win the Grand Dance Off at the big party? Glory. The more Glory you have the easier it is to gain Prestige and the harder it is for people to make you lose either Glory or Prestige, it applies as a modifier to gains/losses of the previous.

You would gain Manpower by having authority over substantial human populations, this is extremely large scale. 1 point of Manpower is enough to start raising a battalion (say 400 ish) of Space Soldiers, man a Space Frigate or convert into say a thousand random semi skilled slaves. Big military formations will have a Manpower upkeep. You are also likely to need Manpower components to big projects like establishing Space Stations or staffing Moon Palaces.
To get a point of Manpower an interval (say a month) you need to control a decent sized city or a populated space station. You can also convert Manpower into Wealth or Prestige on a 1:1 basis to represent having people do productive things such as work on your plantations or stand around wearing uniforms at your fancy ball.

Slaves are transferable manpower! So you might well find other PCs who need manpower but have something else and are willing to trade, they make worse military units than normal manpower (though this can certainly be offset by stuff like shipping them to alien worlds and using them to brutally suppress the natives they feel no connection to). Turning your Manpower income into slaves might make native populations resent you more though.

Wealth comes from trade, industry, tariffs and taxes, most Space Nobles who control stuff are going to have an income of Wealth points. This is biased toward control of off world resources and trade stations, somebody who rules a prosperous orbital city might only have a Manpower income of 1 but have a Wealth income of 10, the ruler of a continent with a population of a hundred million might have a Manpower income of 10 but a Wealth of 3. A single unit of Wealth is required every interval for a Space Noble to live in minimum suitable social style and extravagance, with no real upper limit to the scaling, perhaps every time you double this you get an extra point of Prestige that interval.
Two points might be required to outfit a battalion of Space Soldiers, three for a really nicely armed battalion of Space Soldiers. Five for a small warship (Not a Space Noble warship, a more expendable one). A Moon Palace might need a hundred, plus Manpower and Rare Elements.

Rare Elements would come from mining and only in limited locations, so certain (otherwise horrible) star systems would have Space Mines for people to control, possibly ones which consume Manpower at a steady rate (Hello slaves!). Maintaining Space Noble nanoships would need a trickle of Rare Elements, repairing them substantially more. A single point of Rare Elements would allow a nanoship to manufacture a full panoply of Space Noble grade gear (Space Armour, Space Shield, Space Sword, Space Smart Dress, Space Cufflinks, etc) for one person. More to allow outfitting of Moon Palace suites for supreme luxury or to build in special security or entertainment arrangements beyond the regular level of advanced technology, significant quantities to make smaller spacecraft (Say, 5 man corvettes for going off on personal level Space Adventures)

Incomes of these points would be reverse exponential thanks to inefficiencies in administration and abstracted stuff – the person who rules a good sized city might get 1 Manpower a month, the person who rules an entire world with a billion people might get 20, so at a certain point just grabbing MORE would be inefficient compared to handing out good sized chunks of your stuff to people in return for their support.

[Chuma-Del-Tort]

God, just make another fucking Fading Suns game, @Packrat. You are basically describing a fucking Fading Suns game. Stop jerking us off here. They're like condoms; you use one and then throw it away after it's soiled.

Then when that FS game collapses in on itself, make another one, and another one after that, like some kind of goddamned awful Ouroboros that eats its own shit. It's not like you'll have any difficulties recruiting players, since the same cavalcade of fuckfaces that populated the old FS game and Star Crusade and The Fifth World will show up.

[Lithium]

I don't see slaves as something even remotely necessary in a space lords and ladies game. Why have slaves, when you can pay someone less than it costs you to house and feed and clothe them? It just doesn't make sense especially if a key element is that there is a lot of humanity to farm. Slavery just seems pointless let alone that it will lead to revolution, or attempted revolution.

It happened to the Romans numerous times and the social mores of it are just repugnant.

I wouldn't play on a game that allows it as an institution because it just invites all sorts of the worst (to me) kind of drama and 'rp'.

[Chuma-Del-Tort]

@Lithium said:

I don't see slaves as something even remotely necessary in a space lords and ladies game. Why have slaves, when you can pay someone less than it costs you to house and feed and clothe them? It just doesn't make sense especially if a key element is that there is a lot of humanity to farm. Slavery just seems pointless let alone that it will lead to revolution, or attempted revolution.

It happened to the Romans numerous times and the social mores of it are just repugnant.

I wouldn't play on a game that allows it as an institution because it just invites all sorts of the worst (to me) kind of drama and 'rp'.

Nobody gives a fuck what you think, Lithium.

[Lithium]

@Chuma-Del-Tort Somebody does, because you just got down voted and it wasn't even me this time.

[Chuma-Del-Tort]

@Lithium said:

@Chuma-Del-Tort Somebody does, because you just got down voted and it wasn't even me this time.

Get the fuck out of my face, b.

[Lithium]

@Chuma-Del-Tort I have clearly upset you somehow. I would suggest that you take your vitriol to a forum more deserving of it. Perhaps the Hog Pit? It's more than a little off topic here.

Have a nice day.

[Vorpal]

Geez, Chuma. You're only supposed to have a little Captain in you, not the entire goddamned Spanish Armada.

[Packrat]

Ignoring the random drive by insulting thing, I am certainly open to suggestions, basic idea is to have something abstracted with a few varieties of different flavour influence tokens that people will have reasons to want to trade around and seek out to achieve different goals.

Removing Manpower as a thing then breaking down Wealth into Wealth and Industry as separate flavours of token could work, replace Slaves as the "mobile and tradeable" part with "Goods".

Ultimately though Space Lords and Ladies should probably be more interested in rent seeking than business, actively conducting trade instead of taxing it should probably hurt one's social status (whilst potentiallying giving vast wealth )