@mietze
Dramatic audiencing is an excellent term for exactly what I've seen way too much of. There's a danger as staff of getting way too excited about your own plot and forgetting that great plots need to be interactive and players should have as much control over their direction as the ST does.
To take this thread in a slightly different direction... do you think incentivizing public scenes helps in practice?
What I mean specifically here is either +vote systems with diminishing returns for the same recipients so that players have an extra reason to seek out new partners, higher XP for larger scenes, etc.
Do you think these have a positive impact on whether you can find roleplay? Please forget any other effects of them for the purposes of this thread - power balance, etc - and focus on RP generation. Does it have that effect?
@Arkandel
I think it really depends on what's happening in those public scenes. I'm going to be honest here and say I haven't read through the entire thread, so forgive me if I've missed anything or this has already been said. Specifically to answer your question:
I don't find incentivizing social scenes to be beneficial to finding roleplay. Your run of the mill coffee shop/bar/party RP isn't really particularly interesting and I see no reason to reward it with experience gain. Yeah, social scenes help you meet new characters, but is there any particular drive to seek out a character you talked about the weather and local sports with? Does it add anything other than a dimension of 'oh hey I recognize that guy' if you happen to run into them again? A +vote system, diminishing returns or not, isn't really an adequate substitute for RP creation.
Stuff that specifically drives a plotline (aspirations, if done correctly, or condition resolution, same) is what should be rewarded. Given the choice I'd probably want to reward conflict-driving aspirations with double beats or something along those lines. If 'start a bar brawl' or 'steal a wallet' is on your aspiration list and you fulfill it in some manner that creates in-game plot? You should definitely get extra beats for it. We're actually considering an +asp/conflict system for our game precisely for that purpose.
Incentivizing making stuff happen is what should be rewarded. This can be done from a player level or from an ST level. See above for player stuff.
@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:
To take this thread in a slightly different direction... do you think incentivizing public scenes helps in practice?
that depends on how you go about incentivizing it. Remember you will get the behavior you reward not necessarily the ones you want. +votes means you will get a lot of big scenes with folks showing up for the xp bounty more then the rp. The per pose or time in a room with someone ways will also be gamed in a similar matter as shown my HM. I don't think these systems are bad per se, and they will increase the rp going on but be sure that is the rp you want to foster before implementing them.
I would tend to avoid a plus vote system because for me personal I have had more scenes killed for me by folks zerg rushing a hangout with a few people in it to get votes then I think it produces but I also prefer smaller scenes.
@ThatGuyThere said in Finding roleplay:
...I have had more scenes killed for me by folks zerg rushing a hangout with a few people in it to get votes then I think it produces ...
This needs to go into the random bitching thread, its one of my complaints. A hangout hits 3 people, and in five minutes its up to 6 or 7. Worse when folks swap alts out for a few poses each to get votes for all their alts while they're at it. I'd rather they just +cheat the +votes and +vote without RP'ing each other than bum rush a scene. This can quickly kill a good conversation with social chaos.
@Lotherio
I never understand why the players who do this don't just start another scene. I mean, I understand it, but how do you not see that's bad social etiquette? Even if there's somebody there they want to RP with...dude not cool.
@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:
To take this thread in a slightly different direction... do you think incentivizing public scenes helps in practice?
What I mean specifically here is either +vote systems with diminishing returns for the same recipients so that players have an extra reason to seek out new partners, higher XP for larger scenes, etc.
Do you think these have a positive impact on whether you can find roleplay? Please forget any other effects of them for the purposes of this thread - power balance, etc - and focus on RP generation. Does it have that effect?
Yes. Night and day difference.
some fucking idiot who people only like because he's good at taking credit for the work of everyone under him, just like every other fucking L&L headwiz.
@Apos said in Finding roleplay:
@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:
To take this thread in a slightly different direction... do you think incentivizing public scenes helps in practice?
What I mean specifically here is either +vote systems with diminishing returns for the same recipients so that players have an extra reason to seek out new partners, higher XP for larger scenes, etc.
Do you think these have a positive impact on whether you can find roleplay? Please forget any other effects of them for the purposes of this thread - power balance, etc - and focus on RP generation. Does it have that effect?
Yes. Night and day difference.
Yes. It does indeed encourage people to go out in public. A lot.
I find that +votes make me less motivated to get out in public.
Does anyone ever feel like Carrie at the prom when asking for RP on the public channels?
@VulgarKitten
Yes. And on sphere channels, too. I've been told it's because my PC doesn't put out at all.
@VulgarKitten I think we could liven up finding RP quite a bit if the characters of players who didn't want to RP might randomly combust?
I don't really think asking in channels works well for most people. I used to feel bad but then I noticed almost everyone else getting the same result. Asking people privately if I've seen them say hi I'm new or looking for to before and they're in the ooc room or quiet room rarely gets turned down, at least for me. I play a pretty nonsexual PC on the place where I'm most often seeking pickup rp (BITN) so that might help people not be afraid they're going to be hounded for something unwelcome, and thus I don't seem to offend people for asking via unsolicited page. At least that's my theory. I always have a pitch too, with a caveat of "but I'd be happy to try something else if you'd rather!"
@ThatGuyThere said in Finding roleplay:
@Arkandel said in Finding roleplay:
To take this thread in a slightly different direction... do you think incentivizing public scenes helps in practice?
that depends on how you go about incentivizing it. Remember you will get the behavior you reward not necessarily the ones you want. +votes means you will get a lot of big scenes with folks showing up for the xp bounty more then the rp. The per pose or time in a room with someone ways will also be gamed in a similar matter as shown my HM. I don't think these systems are bad per se, and they will increase the rp going on but be sure that is the rp you want to foster before implementing them.
I would tend to avoid a plus vote system because for me personal I have had more scenes killed for me by folks zerg rushing a hangout with a few people in it to get votes then I think it produces but I also prefer smaller scenes.
Pretty much this. When the founding team sat down to discuss how XP would work and whether we'd even /have/ a +vote system on From The Ashes, this is exactly the conversation we had. +vote systems drive RP, but it's decidedly flat RP organized around garnering +votes rather than actually making meaningful story or connections. (Rule, with exceptions of course.) We felt very strongly that RP is in many ways its own reward, and that XP should be dispensed more in line with what the systems intended: your character gains XP for accomplishing things, for growing, for learning, etc.
This system has its own problems, as we're learning the hard way, and we're not entirely happy with our 'all XP is tied to PrPs or TPs' mode, either. If I could have a +recc/+vote system that wouldn't just become a rubber stamp for every person who dropped a one-line pose into a crowded bar scene, I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. This is one of the better mousetrap areas for this medium, I figure.
@VulgarKitten said in Finding roleplay:
Does anyone ever feel like Carrie at the prom when asking for RP on the public channels?
I pretty much should play youtube clips of the, "THEY ARE ALL GOING TO LAUGH AT YOU" for how I feel when I ask, yeah.
One of the things I have considered is just dropping plots on IC gatherings. Like, if I (or other staff) see a group RP'ing in public then boom, I drop a 1 shot on them and depending on what happens it could lead to more plot.
This way it encourages people to get out of their bedrooms.
I've also seen games that don't allow voting unless there is 3 or more people in a scene but I am of mixed feelings on that one.
Lately though, I have been leaning more towards fixed XP increase across the board, with options for bonuses (Like running scenes/plots).
Vote circles annoy me, as does incredibru fast xp gains.
Hello! Long time listener, first time caller...
@The_Supremes
The difference in my head between +vote and +recc is that +recc requires an explanation, and in my experience that seems to have been enough to prevent most of the rewards-for-one-brief pose, since most people aren't willing to do more work to reward someone than that person did to earn it. I think people tend to feel it requires more than "X showed up."
On the other hand, I also find +reccs weirdly hard to write, and where they exist I've always ended up feeling like I was failing the people I play with because of how rarely I actually manage them even when they're highly deserved.
More and more I start to think that the best way to give out XP on a game is by providing every avenue possible and limiting it to an amount during a specific time frame.
If we're talking, say, CofD:
Automatic XP
+vote
+recc
PRP (running)
PRP (participating)
Conditions
Aspirations
Dramatic Failures
Breaking Points
Just provide all the ways and then limit the amount you can get from each per, say, week--and then limit the amount you can get per week, period. That way, the people who like to play in large groups can vote for each other, the people who like to use Conditions and Aspirations can do that, and to really max out you have to participate in a little bit of every kind. It also stops people from feeling like one style or RP is running roughshod over another.
It requires more thought, obviously, but I am really starting to think this is better than some other stuff we have so far.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
@Coin and @Ninjakitten This has me keen to have a 'how do we XP' thread. Splitting it off of this one which has wandered afar from the OP (as much my fault as anyone else's).
@Lithium said in Finding roleplay:
One of the things I have considered is just dropping plots on IC gatherings. Like, if I (or other staff) see a group RP'ing in public then boom, I drop a 1 shot on them and depending on what happens it could lead to more plot.
This practice would make me avoid public scenes not encourage me to attend them.
Not because I have anything against plots, I think they are great but sometimes you are just wanting a social scene either due to RL or distractions and the spectre (Yes I am spelling it the Brit way despite what spell check wants me to do) of having random crap dropped on me for being on grid would just encourage use of a private room rather then make me more likely to go out and rp.
Now in general more plot is good, but if you do decide to drop it randomly on groups of people at least give warning so those not feeling it can pose out.
@mietze
Dramatic audiencing is an excellent term for exactly what I've seen way too much of. There's a danger as staff of getting way too excited about your own plot and forgetting that great plots need to be interactive and players should have as much control over their direction as the ST does.
