Posts made by Arkandel

@Wretched said in TS - Danger zone:

This conversation sounds familiar.

Are we once again pretending for this argument that humans don't get weird AF about sex? That there is no power balance difference between Staffers and Players? That there is no difference between an ftb that states that they bumped uglies and hours of sexually explicit posing?

Stop Using Staff NPC's to TS, it just opens up way too much potential buillshit.

Not that this should dictate the conversation (there can be multiple ones) but just to make it clear, my original prompt said nothing about staff NPCs or even staff. I asked about whether PrPs could be mixed with TS.

@bored said in TS - Danger zone:

In the TS case, Player A was willing to cybersex with Staffer B for several hours. Player C does not TS.

Sure, but the problem isn't TS. @Auspice already put it well so I'll just quote her here:

Because staff will RP with the people they enjoy RP with more. They'll give favor to the people they enjoy more. This isn't about TS. It's about bias.

The staff member in question might have ran a special scene without any sex at all, FTB or otherwise, as long as they were having fun. Do I agree that dice or some more 'fair selection' process should be involved? Yeah, probably. Is it true that people who're fun to play with often get advantages others don't? For sure.

@WildBaboons said in TS - Danger zone:

@Derp said in TS - Danger zone:

@WildBaboons said in TS - Danger zone:

But is TSing the prince more viable than FTB with the prince?

Probably not? I mean, I'd take it to FTB, but if people wanna play it out then is there any practical difference?

Practical difference, no. But realistically based on historical behavior that has been anecdotally witnessed by many there will be a difference.

Let's rephrase it then.

What's the difference between sleeping (whether it's FTB or TS) with a ranked NPC and a ranked PC from a a thematic or an ethical standpoint?

@bored said in TS - Danger zone:

TS. Not sex. I draw a line between 'sex for story' and 'spending 4 hours engaged in mutual erotic stimulation' and I did so in my earlier post. One is purely IC, one is not. A character can be seduced with a single roll in front of five other players, FTB'ed through, and you can be right back to stabbing goblins in five minutes. TS is another thing entirely.

Although I agree with the distinction itself, it doesn't really mean anything from an ethical point of view.

Whether my character received advantages from sleeping with the Prince or not has nothing to do with whether there was TS involved. Either way the IC bumping of uglies took place just the same.

@bored said in TS - Danger zone:

I don't think your definition is much different than mine. But you're missing that there's already an advantage there: the NPCs you get to run usually violate PC restrictions. This is a big part of the staffside problem that people seem much more on board with: your uber powerful NPC Vampire Prince, elf Prince, Jedi Master, etc being used to do RP that seems much more PC-like rather than being used a critical force to drive the plot.

From an ethical standpoint I wouldn't use characters with IC leverage within the present setting itself. I'll revisit the issue of gaining advantages through this in a second, though.

On top of that, XP rewards, stat increases, items, faction improvements, etc are pretty often PrP rewards. Many games will demand you run a PrP to justify any kind of larger impact on the world. So again, benefit.

To me this is fair game as long as it makes sense.

For one thing I see no issues with someone sleeping their way to the top as long as they can take the appropriate thematic hit for it. So if my justification for raising Status to 3 is that hey, I slept with the Primogen and she's favoring me... that sounds about right - but then I can't complain about it when next time my character struts his new title in Elysium there is snickering and rolling of eyes in response.

Similarly the requirement can't be that you need ro run a PrP in general to be allowed to raise your Gnosis from 2 to 3 but that somehow the PrP can explain why your character learned from it. If the RP itself involved sleeping with my PC's mentor that'd be insufficient, but if we were both shapeshifted at the time... it could make more sense.

Please note there comes a point where considering the poor staff who have to read these logs must enter the picture. They shouldn't have to read log after log of weird-ass fucking to evaluate whether these things 'make sense'.

I think most people would be upset if they found out, for instance, that PC X became the controller/leader of a new org/fief/resource/whatever based on having been granted a boon by fucking an influential NPC run by their usual PC TS partner. Right?

I would hope so, yes! Just because you get what you want from sleeping with someone it doesn't mean that comes free of consequences. Shortcuts should have a price, too.

@bored Hm, I wonder if the problem is in the terminology then.

My idea of a PrP (and I'm not saying it's the correct one) is that it's a scene in which someone - who doesn't need to but could be staff - controls the NPCs and the environment, and everyone else is playing their PCs.

No benefit or inherent advantage is given in that context for participation.

@Tinuviel said in TS - Danger zone:

@bored said in TS - Danger zone:

Your "one on one PRP" case is a weird one, because that's essentially not a PRP and just two people sandboxing, which may violate game rules and be a concern for reasons beyond TS.

Wait, what? How would a one-on-one PRP be against any policy?

I've ran so many one-on-one PrPs it's not even funny. The majority didn't even include sex!

( @bored was kinda right when he said this feels like I'm running a survey here)

TS with NPCs or during PrPs. Where do you stand on this? What I'm thinking is PrPs involving one ST and one player but y'all might surprise me.

@Pandora said in TS - Danger zone:

@farfalla said in TS - Danger zone:

@Pandora What is your point? I can't even tell what I'm supposed to be displeased by. Is your argument that... we shouldn't ban certain types of behavior on games, because some people want the facade of non-con RP but won't say so, so we'd better make sure they can get their heart racing unexpressed desires over the expressed desires of other people to not be explicitly pressured and creeped on? Or is it that because you can't entirely eliminate pressure or coercion or non-con behavior, we shouldn't try to disallow any of it? Or that we don't have the "right" (whatever that means) to establish content rules and guidelines on games?

I know you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, tbh, but it really seems like you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

You're boring.

Guys, both of you, cut this out or get out of this thread.

@Coin said in TS - Danger zone:

So I shouldn't judge you and blame you for how I mistreat you? Because, ngl, that's my kink, Ark. You're so limiting, I swear, can't even nemesis at you anymore. God damn.

Wait, I thought I was judging and blaming you.

What the hell is this.

Folks, although the debate is still fine, please be careful lest it goes into that old cycle of judgment and victim-blaming that I'd rather it didn't.

@magee101 said in TS - Danger zone:

@Arkandel said in TS - Danger zone:

Okay, so while we're still on the topic of IC appearances in general (whether based on a specific PB or otherwise), if you're about to create new character(s) with another player - in other words they're kind of destined to be in a romantic/sexual relationship (*) - do you ask or provide input as to their looks?

(*) While we're at it, would you say you usually create characters more or less knowing in advance who their partner's player will be, or do you wing it once they hit the grid purely based on their RP?

I've never had the opportunity to 'app in' with someone, sexual partner or no.

I used to always 'app in' since it helped guarantee there's no drama involved in RPing relationships with strangers but also as kind of... quality assurance. But mostly the drama thing.

@Coin I'm wondering how this is kept under IC wraps. I'd rather keep this thread away from going into OOC abuse and creepiness or it'll go south fast, but we've seen the occasional outbursts for when someone does end up complaining about it IC.

My assumption is these things happen quite more often but they're not reported by the characters, which might suggest they're unreported to avoid OOC backlash. I might be completely wrong though.

This is actually not a bad segway for me to ask some questions that have been on my mind since this thread was created. I'm really curious to see what (if anything) you folks care to share your thoughts on the topic.

As a refreshed warning please stay mature about these topics and don't get confrontational or judgmental. If the material makes you uncomfortable the option to ignore the thread is at the bottom of this page.

This is specifically for generic non-Shang type MU*.

How do you guys find partners for non-vanilla kinds of relationships and especially when it comes to the more racy stuff out there? Anything from the somewhat more common "50 Shades" stuff that's relatively generally accepted to arrangements which are crimes or completely taboo in the real world - the obvious examples that I have in mind is IC rape or to incestuous relationships on games such as The Reach (or Arx) where PCs from the same families were sleeping together.

How do these conversations take place? How do you make sure the other person is okay OOC?

While we're on the topic, how (and if) do you keep them from getting out of closed door situations and reaching the grid?

Again, if you're not comfortable sharing your thoughts please don't feel pressured to do so.

Okay, so while we're still on the topic of IC appearances in general (whether based on a specific PB or otherwise), if you're about to create new character(s) with another player - in other words they're kind of destined to be in a romantic/sexual relationship (*) - do you ask or provide input as to their looks?

(*) While we're at it, would you say you usually create characters more or less knowing in advance who their partner's player will be, or do you wing it once they hit the grid purely based on their RP?

Is a PB ever a dealbreaker because you don't like the model person? For example would you be okay with TS with a nice character who's using an abusing asshole for their looks?

Alright, I'll get this thread back to its disgusting track by asking all the wrong questions!

Does the played-by (either your character's or someone else's) matter to you when it comes to TS at all? Does it influence how you play your PC or which characters they pursue or uh, how?

@Tinuviel I need a map or a diagram but someone is going to draw naughty pictures on it.

@Tinuviel Are you saying my original mention of TS involving the characters' own clones was deemed so vanilla within a few posts that the whole thing had to be taken to another level?

Stay classy, MSB.

@insomniac7809 said in TS - Danger zone:

During a body swap scenario, to what extent is consent held by the body's current inhabitant vs the original owner?

I apologize if the question is tongue in cheek since I'll answer it seriously. Well, as seriously as the hilariousness of the topic warrants at any rate.

The only consent that really matters is the OOC kind. If the other player isn't into it then ABORT ABORT.

IC consent in general is a different issue so I'll just say that depends on the game and leave it there.