Posts made by Bobotron

@Groth
It can, though. In a lot of the interconnected LARP orgs, stuff can happen like it might on a MU*, though not all of it might be linked to one city. However, I agree; there are a lot of things that MU* need to account for that LARP won't by default (it's been one of my challenges using MET:VtM, particularly in how feeding and blood mechanics work in it).

I think picking and choosing the best options from all, or making logical extrapolations works out well, though many probably need fine-tuning once seen in use (for example, if you have a Feeding Downtime, you come into game at full Blood; my logical extrapolation of this is 'if you have a Feeding Downtime, you spend time here and there getting a nip, and you get <X> blood to draw from for a particular period'.)

Honestly, from everything I've heard about 'immersion' and how it relates to IC and OOC paranoia, OOC Masquerade and the contingent drama of 'OH GOD THEY FOUND OUT' OOC, I think the further we get from that the better. A game can be dark and have IC paranoia and have hard choices, without having to have that OOC level of disconnect. In my experience, those kinds of OOC issues just drive players apart and foster a community where people aren't willing to cooperate. And to have a level of civility in a game, there MUST be some level of cooperation and, in my opinion, fostering that so that you have a community who can do the darkest, vilest backstabbing shit to each other in game and go 'Wow, that was fucked up. That was awesome, thanks for playing that out' when OOC, is the ideal we should shoot for.

@Lithium
Yeah. NMET defaults to a base 10 is 1 success, and every 5 thereafter is a success. However, I have never been in a LARP that used the default scale. One I ran used 8/4, which worked out nicely; and the Mind's Eye Society uses 8/3, which just increases the hypercompetency. But overall it's quick and elegant (though I admit, I'm also playing in a Requiem LARP using the actual tabletop dice roll rules, with STs using a phone die roller, and it has worked out pretty well as long as people know their fucking pools).

@Lithium
Oh, I'm aware. I'm also coming at this WoD MU* design thing from someone who has never had this issue in a MUSH before (plenty of Transformers games and such where <Stealth> tags was a thing, and noone metagamed in a bad way) and freely admit that my WoD experience has really never been a MU*, though I've dealt with some of this in LARP. Plus I'm an avid fan of actual punishment for cheating and bad metagaming. It's served me well in weeding out people who do that shit in LARP.

@Lithium
And this is why you code the randomizer at the most basic level. It's what I've done for TheatreMUSH.

Or in the case of NWoD, use the NMET rules, which are 'make a tabletop pool, roll 1d10, add that, get total, at <X> base is a success and eevery <X> increment after <X> is an additional success.' But I've talked about this ad nauseum before regarding hyper-competency 'I get eleventy-billion successes on a 2 and only fail on a 1', something I've run into bunches in NMET.

@Lithium
I didn't code it to be automatically opposed. It's meant to be appropriately manually rolled off between players and the expectation is for people not to metagame when someone is tagged <Hidden> in the room when they enter or when someone appropriately disappears around them.

It's part of the reason I don't use the DARK version myself (I use that to determine if Virtual Characters, which are used for primarily NPCs, are in the room, but I know lots of people love the DARK thing). The DARK one is more there as an example of how you can use attributes to show people in rooms based on an attribute, and thus simulate reality levels with softcode.

If you needed, you could futz with Auspex to have some type of global @aenter for rooms that autoscans for Obf'ed people to go from there.

@Pyrephox
Which is mostly why I gave up on any type of automation (even the really simple 'have them do the test, tell them who failed, allow them to retest, THEN show the output' so that it doesn't spam the fuck out of everyone) for RPG-based systems; there are waaaaaay too many variables to build an effective resolution code around. You really have to have something custom-built and tailored, or something that's already got all the options notated and easy to input (like D&D), or it won't work at the intended effect of making things easier.

And I wouldn't say combat's the only time people tune out, but that's a separate discussion anyway.

@Pyrephox
Yup. I theorized about doing the combat for various RPG-based MU*s (an NWoD MUSH I was thinking about back when NWoD first came out, and for TheatreMUSH where it's a lot simpler, and allowing for Retests in that manner) but ran up against the problem I always run up against: the fact that, in WoD at least, the target can do things like spend WP to boost defense or blood and such to boost physicals, and how to reasonably account for that. You can do it (you can save everything and send it to the other player to react to appropriately, and give all the output and stuff when the target uses the appropriate command to process), but you have to have players who are paying attention to what the fuck is going on around them, which seems to be another separate problem.

Otherwise, things can be coded up as commands that set stats that later affect combat. Turning on/off a forcefield, turning on/off homing on a weapon, adding automatic status debuffs when someone is struck, etc. That's all really simple to code up.

@Pyrephox
As far as #2, this is why so many games have automated, coded combat systems, particularly if they do not use an existing RPG property for their system. If the system says you are hit, it does everything -- proccs status effects, assigns damage, and if you're KOed it sets you KOed. The expectation is that you'll roleplay around the combat system output dynamically. It's an ingrained thing in one line of MU*s and their culture, and allows people to freeform the results if they want to do so.

That's one thing I've never understood about the WoD OTT MU*s. Why spend all that time building a world, giving the options and such when you're just going to have people OTT and potentially ignore that stuff for their own thing? It feels like a supreme waste of time on the game developer part.

@Derp
I have played on plenty of MU*s where social stats/skills weren't a coded thing, as all coded stats were related to the coded combat system, and social RP for stuff worked out well. It's an issue of the culture of the type of game you're looking at, more than anything else.

This is not meant to say that I disagree that social stats should matter, especially if the system you're using requires them. I think a lot of times people come into games from other games where social stats were never rolled, and the new game wants to use them, and doesn't make that clear anywhere on their site, and that can cause a disconnect. But the concept of not conceiving of backing down, for example, is valid. The opposite is also valid, at least in social stat games, where people play above what they have and expect those results.

In my experience, the primary thing that most people consider when comparing MUSH/MUX vs MUD and its variants, is the setup and what comes pre-packaged. Most people differentiate it simply by the codebase and what the code entails, regardless of the design aesthetics.

@Seamus
Okay, so here's the Obfuscate stuff, depending on what you want. Written for Penn, so be aware.

Obfuscate - Removes characters from the contents:

@conformat here=[null([iter([lvplayers(%L)],[if([not([hasattrval(%i0,obf)])],[setq(c,[squish(%i0 %qC)])])])])][iter(%qC,[ljust([left([ansi(h,[name(%i0)])],15)],15)][left([xget(%i0,shortdesc)],45)],,%R)]

Simulating DARK via softcode insofar as removing characters from the room contents (I, personally, could care less about the DARK flag; I never use it, and when I need something like this, I use the tag version below). This one checks to see if a character has Obf set to any value; if so, it removes them from the contents. To turn it off and on, you'll need a command to set the Obf and wipe it.

ETA: Figured out how to remove the trailing space.

Obfuscate - Adds a <Hidden> tag to the character in the room contents:

@conformat here=[iter([lvplayers(%L)],[ljust([left([ansi(h,[name(%i0)])],15)],15)][left([xget(%i0,shortdesc)],45)][if([match([xget(%i0,obf)],1)],%b[ansi(hy,<Hidden>)])],,%R)]

This one tags them <Hidden> after their shortdesc, in bright yellow, if the Obf attribute is set to 1. Again, needs a command to set the value back and forth from 0 (off) to 1 (on).

I'd do it using attributes, @conformat and @exitformat. Set an attribute to determine if something is real or umbra, and whichever, show appropriate exits/room desc/contents. Lock the exits so that real exits can't be used by someone set umbral, and vice-versa. Hook something onto the pose/say/etc. commands (usually pretty simple) to only go to the right reality level.

I might take a stab at it, since I've already got a large chunk of that done for the VChars. If I can get it to work out well (it'll probably be a bit before I actually mess with it though, other stuff on my plate ahead of it), I can post it here.

That did the trick!

@Seamus
From discussion on MUS*H the other night, that looks like something they're looking to add in the next iteration of Penn.

ETA: It occurs to me my VChar system, coupled with a hook on the speak/pose/etc. commands could be used to simulate being in another plane, in the same room.

What do you need the Umbra code to do? I can dig around through my code directory and see if i've got something that might work?

Try here?

http://www.gwen-morse.com/wiki/index.php/Gwen's_MUSHcode_Archive

I'd offer my Obfuscate code but it's literally just commands to turn it on/off, and an @conformat chunk to tag someone as Hidden.

@Thenomain said:

I'd love for every game to come up with their own simple, even broken system. Some can code a more complex system for all I care, but outside the box means stopping the idea that every Mush has to be based upon an established RPG line.

Being based on an existing RPG line seems to be limited, though, to games that are basing themselves around that. Outside of a couple of outlier D&D games, most everything in my MU* history has had no RPG game system basis to speak of, either having:

A. A basic, coded combat with no 'RPG-alike' roll system, as all of that was covered by just RP
B. A simple +roll system with number comparisons or
C. A combination of the two, with coded combat becoming ever-more-complex as games are built.
D. No system whatsoever/entirely freeform.

I think a lot of times 'outside the box' falls by the wayside because it's not what is going to be a draw to people. People come to games based on properties because of the thing they're familiar with, with the property. In games based on TTRPGs, that is often the TTRPG system that they're familiar with. In games based on a property, it's usually the fiction of the property. And the few times tht those things have been used in tandem, I've seen, have been a bit more lackluster.

On most TF games it's a semi-complex combat code. This also followed to the Megaman MU*s, with additions of weakness/resistance.
On the Pokemon game there was simple attribute roll-offs.
Hell, on one game we built a version of Smash Bros. fighting because it fit the theme.

I think people are afraid of pushing away people by doing 'outside the box' stuff, in many instances.

Testing...

Nope, still runs off the bottom of the screen. It at least let me use the scrollbar to go down, which it wasn't doing.