Posts made by Derp

@Killer-Klown said in Mage 2e game - The Golden Road:

I don't entirely agree here; Reaches can and do result from desperate actions; but you also get them from having an Arcana higher than the level of spell you're casting. In that case it's not so much a 'Reach' as that you're casting something well below your skill level - like a nuclear physicist working basic arithmetic; so you can afford to do it faster/do it better.

Right, but in this case we were talking about Paradoxes that result from Reaching, which is where you push yourself beyond your safe boundaries. His point was that you have to use Reach all the time, and I was saying that it is highly unlikely that someone is going to push themselves so far beyond their safe limits (e.g. risk invoking a Paradox) unless there is a compelling reason to do so.

Reach as a result of higher arcana is still pushing the magic beyond its default setting, but you can do so more safely because you have experience, so you're still probably unlikely to be risking a Paradox unless you have a compelling reason for doing so.

@skew said in Mage 2e game - The Golden Road:

If you're at 3, and cast a level 3 spell, you get 1 free reach. That's almost always going to be used for "Instant". If you want to, say, cast it by sight, or use it on more than one person, or make it last more than 2 turns... you have to reach. Reach, reach, reach.

Which is fine, but remember what it is Reach actually stands for -- extending yourself beyond your current safe levels of practice in order to achieve a result. Most (sane) mages are not going to do that when there is a safer alternative, so Reach spells (and Paradox) tend to be the results of desperate actions.

If people are using that as everyday magic, then we should probably be having a different conversation -- namely about how Wisdom is viewed in the game and what the consequences for bucking those millenia of traditions are.

@skew

Ok, in second edition that's true. In the old edition, you had to worry about whether or not something was vulgar or not. In 2e, though, reaching is used for the big stuff anyway, at least as far as story is concerned. Most mages won't need a reaching effect in their everyday lives.

Just my own two cents:

Paradox is meant to be a boogeyman, but it's also meant to be pretty rare, whether that means that mages suffer containing it or just eschew vulgar magic. Each Order has their own thoughts on the matter.

Either way, Paradoxes are hardly everyday happenings, so I don't think a system that makes them more common is going to do much in the way of their oh shit factor. Paradox is supposed to happen when a mage is already stressed and desperate, or careless and inexperienced.

Hi! I have no idea who you are, so I probably don't hate you. Just to get that out of the way.

Now, on to business!

1. Suggestion - You might consider putting this in the Advertisements thread instead, since that seems to be more what this is aiming for?

2. Questions! - Does this mean that PCs will not be gaining any sort of xp through the actual story, and instead are just given a flat rate with periodic 'catchup xp' sorts of thing? Or does this mean that people will be getting periodic xp raises on top of the xp they earn in story?

Thanks! (Also WOO MAGE GAME!)

I don't recall it coming with ajobs either.

@magee101

That' s because you were brought up right.

@magee101 said in Mage for Multi-Sphere WoDv2 Games:

Point 2. I am not sure for 2e but 1e had Arcana caps based on Gnosis. You could only go this high for your Ruling, this high for your inferior and this high for teritary arcana based on what your Gnosis was at.

I am fairly sure that many Mage staffers did not know this. I saw this rule broken a lot when reviewing sheets. People had way more arcana than their Gnosis supported, four+ masteries and such.

@killer-klown said in Mage for Multi-Sphere WoDv2 Games:

The idea of conflict and war was burned into the older versions from the getgo. You knew your Werewolf hated the Wyrm, you knew the Camarilla and Sabbat were in a state of conflict spanning centuries. It was a constant, present threat. In the new system, though, it's all left kind of vague due to the way the books are structured.

I don't see this as so much a bug, but a feature. Unlike OWoD, which was a decidedly different sort of gothic punk world setting, NWoD is supposed to be much closer to our own world. The wars and conflict between the factions are much more subtle and tactical, compared to the all out blood and bones type warfare that you saw in OWoD. It is much more tailored for the long game and tactical moves with the occasional bout of violence, much more political and calculated.

I think that is one of the bonuses that would make it work better in a MU, rather than worse. Open conflict is actively frowned upon, under-handedness and subversion is encouraged, so long as you don't get caught. Because they will absolutely throw you under the bus.

Also there are mechanical consequences for just killing all your enemies rather than just trying to screw them over.

OWoD supported the type of Mad Max warfare that some people shoot for, whereas NWoD is more akin to spy games and sabotage with the occasional assassination. Even werewolves are actively discouraged from killing each other.

Quick double post:

Players should also be limited in how much they can change the setting to suit their whims. One of the other big problems in Mage is that there are basically zero consequences for bucking millenia of traditions and indoctrination in favor of egalitarian utopianism. I have seen almost every Mage game have an even split of Council seats based on Order. This too creates problems, because:

1. No Order can get a leg up on the others politically, which limits sources of conflict

and

2. The Free Council literally has its own government, which shortchanges them severely.

Path-Based Council Seats have a deep in-game meaning in terms of legitimacy of their combined authority, etc. But everyone seems to open up as some kind of democratic experiment, which is completely antithetical to the sorts of rigid hierarchies that almost every Order presents.

There should be consequences for bucking the norms of ancient mystical Orders, but there never are.

@ganymede said in Mage for Multi-Sphere WoDv2 Games:

@derp said in Mage for Multi-Sphere WoDv2 Games:

1. XP is gained far too quickly, leading to multiple high-level characters in a very short amount of time, all of them with competing interests and with enough power that they have no need to work well with others.

2. There is very little in the way of active antagonism or storytelling, as Seers of the Throne and other external threats are almost entirely nonexistent, so they have little choice but to try and get into other active things.

I think another problem is the absence of internal antagonism, which can often drive activity in the absence of active storytelling.

In Vampire, the Covenants have reasons to war with each other; in Werewolf, the packs vie for territory in similar fashion. But in Mage, if you keep to reasonable power levels, it is simply wiser to collaborate, and, in the absence of any Seer or external threat, that leaves you with mutual masturbation until something better comes along. And if you don't have reasonable power levels, and there's no need to collaborate, then ... well, it's just self-masturbation.

Not that I mind that, but, you know.

Yeah, I mentioned that in a later post, about the Orders being far, far too kumbaya with one another and no real infighting between cabals, no tested loyalties between cabal and Order, etc. More antagonism across the board is needed.

The problem that I have heard most often in regards to why it is not there is 'the players don't want it, they want it a different way'. This goes for everything from the Free Council having seats on the Consilium to the complete and utter absence of Seers or other baddies of any significant presence.

I mean, players also want unlimited xp and a bedazzled pony, but that doesn't mean that we should let them have it.

You still around anywhere? Hit me up if you are!

@skew said in Mage for Multi-Sphere WoDv2 Games:

The classic example is vampires and their fighting and politicking and squabbling and all that.

Technically speaking, Mage has that too. The Orders are little more than warring religions that have called a partial ceasefire, but they still work to screw each other over, the Diamond Orders and the Free Council are in serious rivalries most of the time, even having distinct governments, both factions fight Banishers and Seers and other sorts of baddies in a never-ending shadow war. Cabals fight for resources and territory in order to keep their own little dominion, while the members of cabals face warring loyalties between their immediate family and their effective magical faiths. It has ample room for this sort of conflict.

It has just literally never been presented that way. The Diamond and the Free Council are just one big thing in most games, and all of them are all kumbaya with one another, whereas they really should not be.

So Mage has just as much potential for internecine conflict as any other sphere, its just that it hasn't ever been structured that way. Or at least not in the last decade. I seem to remember HM having some of this.

This really depends on having a strong initial setup designed to do that, which means sticking to the books, and not just xeroxing what The Reach did.

As a note, my comment about staffers wasn't directed at anyone in particular. Just a general observation. Almost all games have done a great many things right, and put in a lot of blood and tears trying to keep things going.

As another note, I do not believe that Mage requires more work than other spheres. I believe they all require this sort of treatment. This problem is noticeable across all games in all spheres, as others have pointed out. Just with Mage it is more easily noticed.

All spheres require dedication, and all of them can break if left to their own devices. I just believe that this is less to do with system, and more due to lack of oversight. Or a desire for less system so that less oversight is required. In the latter case, that is still not a system problem, and is a want rather than a need.

@thenomain said in Echoes in the Mists - Discussion:

@goldfish said in Echoes in the Mists - Discussion:

I don't believe it's even coded in yet.

While it hasn't been extensively tested, nWoD Mage 2e is coded. I think. I'm pretty sure. I've had some reasonable requests from other people about it, but haven't managed to do anything with it.

makes grabbyhands at

I know that I am probably in the minority voice here, since so many people have expressed their dissatisfaction with the system, but:

There is no problem with the system, as is, running on a MU.

The problems that happens with Mage on MU is twofold, but due to a common source:

1. XP is gained far too quickly, leading to multiple high-level characters in a very short amount of time, all of them with competing interests and with enough power that they have no need to work well with others.

2. There is very little in the way of active antagonism or storytelling, as Seers of the Throne and other external threats are almost entirely nonexistent, so they have little choice but to try and get into other active things.

Both of these are frankly just due to lazy staffing. Mage staff on a number of games now have been of the opinion that the players will find things to entertain themselves with. When other staff come in and suggest changes, especially increased antagonists, those in charge have traditionally made a hullabaloo about how it doesn't make sense for antagonists to be there, or if they do show up they are only allowed in such small numbers that they are easily crushed. ETA Or, you get the 'mage war' kinds of things that Fallen World tried, which equally doesn't work. You need them to be in a constant cold war, worried about exposure and retaliation. Changeling is not the only game where a sense of constant paranoia is supposed to be the default.

So the system itself doesn't need a single change to work correctly (in 2E the only change I would make is giving Proximi free Reach so that they aren't always risking Paradox, which goes against their prior theme).

You just need a better class of staffers who recognize that mages need things to do and cannot advance so quickly that working with Orders/Consilium Officials/Other Cabals becomes optional.

Nerfing the system just supports lazy storytelling, and doesn't actually get at the root of the problem.

Oh that! Ok. Thanks!

@auspice said in Any good inspiration board style websites better than Pinterest?:

I actually really enjoy Microsoft's OneNote, but it's not a website.

While not technically a website, you can access Office 365 from pretty much any web browser.

@thenomain said in TinyMUX: @descformat and @parent:

When you use @descformat on an object you're @parenting to, TinyMUX runs the space-compression algorithm.

While I am glad we got a fix for this, I .... also don't know what this means! What does this mean? How was it breaking? I assume this has something to do with it not centering things?

Have you read the Politics section?