Posts made by faraday

@ganymede said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

I don't think you can compare FS3 and WoD Combat for many reasons. The biggest one is FS3's lack of "initiative"; everyone goes at the same time, and the combat engine takes the pre-set "preferences" indicated by each player (weapon used, target, attack-type, etc.) and finds the results lickety-split. In WoD, each person gets a turn in sequence, and, unless that person is actively engaged, they aren't always going to do this quickly; even if each player took 5 minutes to choose their action, roll for it, and pose, a 6-person combat moves at the glacial speed of 30 minutes per turn.

FS3 has initiative, it's just handled under the hood. It all comes down to how you view initiative. If you view it as "I get to wait to see what you do AND whether you succeed before I even pick my action" then yeah - it is going to be serial by necessity.

But that's a design choice. You could just as easily say that declaring actions happens in parallel because your decision to act is unaffected by anyone else's decision to act.

Then you have what I believe someone else suggested a bit ago:

• Declaration phase (in parallel)
• Resolution phase (GM-handled, in initiative order; GM spits out the results)
• Pose phase (in parallel, which can happen alongside the declaration phase in subsequent turns)

None of this is FS3-specific. It can work for any RPG system as long as you're willing to make declarations happen in parallel.

And if you're not? Well... then you get 8 hour long combat scenes. But why do that to yourselves???

Side note: FS3's code makes declarations public because it's meant for co-op PvE. But you could have people page the GM if it's PvP and you're worried about somebody cheating by seeing someone else's action first.

@surreality said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

Writing the mechanics of a published, for profit RPG system into code that can fire and forget gets into very iffy territory, depending on the game company.

Yeah, frankly that's a big reason that led to the development of FS3. It's not that I couldn't have coded the combat mechanics of my favorite RPG system. I just didn't want to step on copyright toes.

That and I think most tabletop RPG systems are just too complex to use on a MUSH. They're written for interpretation by a GM, and are not very code-friendly.

@bobotron said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

However, doing something like this also requires something that most WoD games don't want to do: FUCKING FOCUS.

I agree with everything you said, but this right here is a self-inflicted problem. I mean, yeah, if you're going to let player concepts sprawl all over then it's going to be tough to get them together for anything short of "ZOMG Earthquake!" type epic plots.

@bobotron said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

Personally, I don't think pose order is the problem (sorry, but pose order is just another word for initiative order). Lack of care for the time put in is the problem.

Lack of care is certainly a problem, no question. I get around that in my FS3 combat games by just flat-out skipping people if they don't pose by the 15-minute turn limit. They can catch-up pose next turn if they like, or just be moving positions/aiming/frozen/whatever for a turn.

But I have to disagree about pose order being a problem. I mean, it's simple math. Let's say you have 10 super-attentive people all taking 5 minutes to pose. That's an hour-long turn right there!!!! Even at 3-per pose rules it's like... probably a good half-hour. But you put those same 10 people into a FS3 combat round where the results are known in advance and everyone's just posing their hero moments, and now your turn takes 10 minutes. (ETA: It's not unique to FS3; just using that as an example.)

@apos said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

I think emphasizes a strict pose order since the consequences of someone being skipped or passed over is much higher.

I've never played on WoD but I can agree with this sentiment in general. Even fully-coded FS3 combats take forever when people insist on following a pose order. Having automatic resolutions helps, of course, but the biggest bang for the buck comes from the fact that everyone is reacting to the same code results. Pose order doesn't really matter, and that means you can get through a 12-person combat round in about 15 minutes.

ETA: Even without code, I think you can get a lot of the same benefits if the system were simpler and all the players knew what to roll ahead of time.

@coin said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

Depends on how you decide to portray and approach the Native American "problem". If everyone is playing a white settler or someone on their "side" you could easily just have constant battles with injuns.
I mean, I wouldn't do that, but.

Yeah I wouldn't do that either but you're correct.

@arkandel said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

That's a pretty big 'as long as' condition though.

And yet it's worked. It takes effort but it can be done. It has been done.

Example of it working: When my western Sweetwater first opened, the metaplot was a range war between two rival ranches. There were frequent plots that involved a whole bunch of people directly and even more people indirectly. Those plots then had tendrils that spread out into everyday conversations ("OMG did you hear what happened?") and plotting, and injuries and other aftermath. It was great. Yet there really wasn't much else going on besides the range war or everyday western life RP.

Example of it not working: My game Martian Dreams was set on Mars in the aftermath of a revolution. (Basically a sequel to my novel.) Our active players included a couple scientists, a couple doctors, a corporate exec, a firefighter, a cop, a teenager and a preacher. Yeah, try working all of those people into a plot more than once They were all awesome characters individually, but their stories never intersected. Although there was an intended metaplot, it was too hard for them to work their way into it.

So I think we're generally in agreement that players need stuff to do or else you lose momentum. Just the execution is different.

A mortal-only game where you're an X-Files or Fringe type of group could work, for instance. One where you've got a motley crew like my MDM game? Notsomuch.

@arkandel said in World of Darkness -- Alternative Settings:

No matter the genre people need to have stuff to do outside of plots, or when no Storytellers are throwing things for them to feast on.

I don't really believe that's true. There have been countless "successful" (eye of the beholder obviously) games where the only thing filling the time between plots is plot-aftermath or social RP. TGG, pretty much every Battlestar game, most post-apoc games, etc. It works as long as the plots are frequent enough and accessible enough to provide a break from endless BarRP.

That said, I think such a pace would be hard in a Mortal-only WoD game because it would be tough finding plots that could involve a bunch of people at once. With TGG/BSG it was easy - look, a battle! Everybody fights! But with a modern game it'd be, like... "So a preacher, a cop and a musician walk into a dark alley..." You can make that work once or twice, but it's just not sustainable. Westerns have that same problem.

@auspice said in Hobby-related Resolutions/Goals for the coming year... ?:

But it's a fantastic price for having reference material on hand.

I'm just a little dubious on the value of that reference material. It's highly specific stuff ... Learning Robotics. Raspberry Pi. Data Analysis. Networking. These are not general-purpose topics that are going to come up in most projects.

If it's right for you it's right for you. You would know that better! I was just making a general comment about the contents of the package as it relates to game programming.

@auspice said in Hobby-related Resolutions/Goals for the coming year... ?:

@insomnia said in Hobby-related Resolutions/Goals for the coming year... ?:

Humble Bundle has a Python Bundle

Aww, shit. The deal goes away right before I get paid again. Sonuva.

Those are not "Python for beginners" books. I'd give it a hard pass if your goal is to learn Python for Evennia or the like.

Codeschool has a level 1 course for free, and you can probably get through the other levels in one month ($30). I've done a number of their courses and they're awesome. They also have Ruby for folks wanting to learn that for Ares.

There's also the free official tutorial. No bells and whistles but it'll get you what you need.

CodeAcademy is also free. Haven't used it.

Udemy is having a crazy New Year's sale ($10 for 100 lectures and lots of video) but I can't vouch for the quality.

I'm sure there are others.

@magee101 said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

@griatch So then shouldn't we rename this thread or something? I keep coming here hoping someone is going to actually publish a directory or list some game ideas.

There is no such directory. The closest thing to a MU directory is the MSB ads thread. Talking about how to make a better directory seems eminently on-topic. But if the OP or a mod wants to rename the thread I don't really care.

@alzie Dunno. I've never heard of it before today. I'm just going off what the protocol documentation says. It defines a number of specific and optional tags with very specific meanings - most of which are utterly irrelevant to a MUSH. But even if it's generic it still doesn't change the other reasons I don't like it.

@thenomain Maybe I'm misunderstanding what @Sparks was getting at.

Ares and Evennia already have their own game lists and a means for populating them. I thought she was talking about something using MSSP. Evennia currently supports MSSP but Ares doesn't.

@thenomain said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

Out of technical ignorance I ask: Why not MSSP?

• It's highly MUD-specific (number of rooms? PK-allowed? Classes? Races? Yeaaaah... not so useful for most MUSHes).
• It uses out of band telnet communication. UGH
• It requires the directory to know ahead of time that the game exists, which requires you to have some kind of submission bottleneck. Also a lot of people just can't be bothered to submit their game.
• It lacks information that can actually be super-useful to people. A basic ad blurb, like you mentioned, and an activity graph like AresCentral allows.

I mean, I could make Ares acknowledge MSSP. It's not that hard. But it's annoying to do so just to support current MUD(!) lists that only update themselves once every year (it seems).

@surreality said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

This is my mental flow chart:

I really like this. My personal thought process runs much the same way, albeit with fewer sub-conditions under the "YES" column.

@thenomain said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

Why do we do this to ourselves, Faraday? Why?

Clinical insanity?

@tat Yeah I agree. I've thought about trying to expand the Ares game directory to other game platforms too, but it's not as straightforward as I'd like for various reasons. And I need another project like I need a 2x4 to the head

@moonman Not that I know of. Looking towards the future, both Evennia and Ares have built-in games directories. Both are auto-updated from within the game itself, so there's no need for manual intervention.

@thenomain Maybe it's a culture thing, but when I see ICA=ICC spelled out in game policies, it's usually a shorthand for extreme non-consent. So no, there is no expectation of considering the other player's fun. It's more of a game atmosphere where someone's going to come out on top. "Hey, you rolled a 1. Them's the breaks." or "Hey you pissed off the wrong prince. Enjoy your exile."

Personally I prefer more cooperative games like what you've described as your ideal. But you can't force people to cooperate, and often one person's idea of "fun" is polar opposite to another's. Even on a PVE game, sooner or later you get someone digging in their heels like "Harvey did X and Y is the only conceivable way my character could respond." (Which is usually short-sighted but that's a separate problem.) I have no solution.

@bored Sorry, the trivializing comment wasn't directed at you personally. Just a generalized response to the theme of "just do both" I see every time this is discussed. Yes, we can do both (more or less). I believe it to be a short-term necessity, but long-term maybe not the best idea due to the weight of complexity it induces.

As for scenes - Ares currently only shows completed scenes on the web page, to avoid the thorny issues we've both mentioned. It's my intention to allow folks to play both ways eventually, but I'm still working through all the details. For instance - you mentioned grid rooms vs. flexible locations. Well, the telnet version of the scene system already allows you to create a temproom for the scene and change its IC location on the fly. There's no reason that can't play nice with a web version too.

@sunny Uh, I didn't say that? Was there anywhere in my response where I put my foot down and was like: "ZOMG DON'T TALK ABOUT THIS!"? Seriously, why the snark? I gave my opinion about why I don't think it's an issue. That doesn't stop anybody else from discussing it or worrying about it.

@sunny said in The Death Of Telnet: Is It Time To Face The Music?:

You need a staffer for every 10-50 players, depending on how your game is set up, right?

There are a number of easy solutions to this. As @Moonman said - you can just limit how many people you allow. You could have invite-only games.
You'd be able to make niche concepts and be able to expect more than three people to show up. You could have more freeform or coded games where you reduce the staff overhead.

And the growth wouldn't happen like a lightswitch. I think first you'd see a rise in the number of games, which will spread the load considerably.

But really, I don't see a giant flood happening ever. As @Auspice said back in the start of the thread, MUSHing sits at a particular niche of the RP spectrum. It's hyper real-time, super fast-paced and very "game-y". It's just not going to appeal to the vast majority of RPers.

Storium, for instance, is super accessible and even got mainstream media attention, yet the community is still rather small and easily managed.