This. Precisely. It's snobbery. It's the concept that an alleged good dog owner meets a shitload of criteria and approaches dog ownership with all of the time and energy of raising their own child.
So, if you can't afford to pay $10 to cut a dog's nails, then fuck you negligent dog owner. I assure you she was thinking more about the dog, but being no different about it than any other pushy person because dogs should not suffer your economics or some shit.
Social dominance and supremacy, yo
BREAKING NEWS
Excuse me people, I'd like to pause to make an announcement.
The Hog Pit board's "MU GRIPES AND PEEVES and (current) ARX PEEVE" threads have a combined total of 14, 848 posts in them.
The MILDLY CONSTRUCTIVE board's "MU THINGS I LOVE" board has...
...727 posts.
So, basically (statistically) for every single post that someone posts about something they love about mushing, 20 posts are made about how much it (or the people on it) suck.
(I am getting a lot of mileage out of this gif)
END OF BREAKING NEWS
If this stuff were solely about the topic at hand, then so many personal attacks wouldn't be taking place. It's often been said here to attack the idea, not the person, but there's plenty of attack the person under the guise of attacking the idea.
It should be called out for what it is.
@Arkandel @Lotherio Right. I get why people post to complaint boards, and I also get the concept that "if you get mad, it means you care". A good amount of what goes on there isn't bitching, though. IMO It's probably better described as "One bitching post, and then 30 follow up posts dissecting the intentions, reputation, or delivery of said bitch, and then people show up to attack people who attack friends or use it as an opportunity to fuck with people they dont like."
I guess where my head is at is that I'm not questioning the wisdom or existence of negativity, but am just saying I think how some people in this hobby have chosen to manifest it is a problem.
A wise person recently told me that they felt that MSB isn't a reflection of the mushing community as a whole. I think they were right to say that. I think some people try to use it constructively where others use it as a sort of path off of school grounds where they can bully people walking home from school without it being a bannable offense.
I like how @shangexile helped bring us all together and did something positive for @surreality
Thanks, bruh.
(Ghost voice)
SSSSTooooop iiiidentifyyyyiiing yourrrselffffff on gaaameessssssss
Alllllways juuuuust be youuuur chaaaracter naaaaaame
@surreality Digging into my zen-brain, I like to think of it as this:
Yourself and KK have a disagreement. Sao and I had a disagreement.
There's a big difference between a disagreement and aggressive, predatory behavior, and when I look at actual predatory behavior, it makes my disagreement seem petty.
It puts things into perspective.
(Disclaimer: I know going into writing this that it won't be popular with some personalities. However, for some people this might be good advice. If you're not attempting to fix the problem, then you're just complaining about it, so I'm offering a potential solution. This is on 'Mildly Constructive' so insulting responses are both unwelcome and will aid in validating this point)
Do you feel like you're caught up in an OOC ball of yarn you can't escape?
Are you tired of whatever potentially inaccurate reputation other opinionated players have applied to your persona?
Are you tired of players obsessing over who is who and want to get out of that cycle of behavior?
Do you just wanna role-play in peace without people trying to weigh/judge who they think you are?
Here's how:
Step 1: Stop using your MSB handle now. Create a new email address. Stop associating wiki logins with any known MSB handles or old nicknames. Delete any playlist entries and don't start new ones. Step one to getting out is understanding that people cannot easily track you, don't really know you, and if they cannot prove who you are, you can be who you are in peace.
Step 2: Let go of Hog Pit issues. With your newly created "persona", getting into furballs on the Hog Pit will result in your typical wording being scrutinized. Fuck it. Let it go. OR don't let it go and continue, because you followed step 1 and your new charbit is clean (but I recommend letting go of the hog pit type negativity).
Step 3: People will inevitably try to figure out who you are. They'll associate PBs to you. They will ask you where you've played. They will try to figure out which state youre in. Don't bite that hook. I'm going to provide you with a thing you can copy and paste to sidestep this:
"Sorry, I don't give personal information like that out, but would love to have fun and RP!"
(^COPY/PASTE THAT. BOOKMARK THIS)
SIDEBAR: I have had dozens of conversations with various MSB personalities, both popular and reviled, who have said that they're going to start using this method. So always be nice, because when you use this above script, you could very well be some kind of reviled MSB villain OR a super popular person who just wants to RP in peace.
SIDEBAR 2: The above statement may or may not be true. But it could be. The person who says this may be your friend and an excellent RPer!!! Everyone who uses this method could be anyone.
SIDEBAR 3: Fact: The majority of people who have told me that they're going to start doing this are the nice ones.
STEP 4: Don't be an asshole. Be nice! You're there for RP and wanna be a part of a collective of RPers! Protect your escape identity by being what everyone wants: a low-drama and fun person to write scenes with who doesn't creep on people.
Disclaimer: This was written by one of the 4 people who utilize this account for posting purposes. Or I have MPD. Or I don't. Or I might! Or I'm actually the person you think is Ghost. Or I'm not. Or I'm ghost's SO. Or I lost my cell phone and this was written by the guy down the street at the Circle K who looks like an Iranian Steve Harvey.
Have a nice day. This is my one and only post in this thread. Do what you will.
I know I'm not the best voice of reason here, but the truth of the matter is that some of these spats and stances don't truly matter.
I'm going to do my best to not get sucked into that mindset to swing baseball bats at people over shit that doesn't truly matter, but I think a big part of that is realizing that TMZ is not giving any fucks nor reporting on any of this.
I think all some of this stuff does is make it really uncomfortable to find RP, and the people who are more reserved and don't get attached to slugging it out with other people are way smarter than I've been.
Meh. Fuck it. I'm conversing.
I like that Gany, Fara, Auspice, Surreal, and others can agree to disagree with me. I like to think that we do it well because they know that when we agree to disagree, it's just that. I still like them as people and I don't see a lot of topics that two people of the internet truly can't walk away from. I'm not going to have a conversation with someone about how great all 3 Matrix movies are (if you don't believe this, you're horrible) and then get (improperly) disagreed with, then turn to everyone else and be like:
"This is a Matrix 3 only party, bitch."
Ultimately? I think people are just people. I think that most people put an idealized version of themselves on the internet, and that when it comes to RPGs you run the risk of so many hours spent roleplaying it's easy to subconsciously adapt that idealized OOC version of yourself into a persona that you have to upkeep.
Which is why I try very hard not to do that, and post a lot of Mac gifs.
Anyway, I digress.
I think everyone, even the people who may not like me, are just regular people. Regular people who hurt their shoulders while sleeping, hate hangovers, and have foods they choose to not eat because it gives them diarrhea. I think that people choose these OOC personas (or don't at all) for their own reasons, but there's really no way for me or anyone to qualify who they are without having existing RL relationships with them.
I could be Ben Affleck for all you know.
I think that some people have lost focus of this. People have good days, bad days, have differences of opinion on what good RP is, and communication between people who actually have actual sex all the time is difficult but it feels like the excepted success rate of communication in the hobby is waaaay higher a bar than it should be.
I think some people have become caught up in their confirmation bias, and on MSB you tend to see a lot of accusations where "Angry person A knows with complete paranormal accuracy the intentions and beliefs of Person B". I think there's some definite arrogance in that level of assumption and/or the assumption that you can actually determine who does or doesn't deserve another chance for...disappointing you?
I believe that there is very little actual real damage that happens in this hobby and that cases of cruel behavior, stalking, and cheating at games are the actual offenses. I believe that you cannot force an open-invitation environment to meet the preferences of a vocal group of people who have taken it upon themselves to arbitrarily keep mental tallies on players. Before long those mental tallies will become: "Well, they said words I didn't like once and they disagree with me on some things. I can't remember roleplaying with them or have any actual bad game experiences, but Fuck em until they own their shit and apologize to me for...a thing? I dunno. Fuck em." So damage ends up this subjective term, and whether or not someone deserves a second chance becomes a topic of public consumption designed to sway a mob, much like Matrix 3 or social rolls in WoD.
I agree: It's a clique, and that clique will always want the right to decide who is or isn't worthy of social hierarchy. What people don't understand is that this behavior is a beast that often comes back around to bite you. Alex and I were bullies in grade school. I was on top. Then Alex started bullying me. People fall out of favor, and others replace them.
Anyway, I'm all for people exercising the right to get on in peace. I think @faraday is 100% absolutely right in the spirit of her approach. My approach/suggestion isn't the utopian or preferable one, but I think it's a means to an end. In the end, though, ths hobby would be best if people played well together and fara's vision would be something unifying.
I just want people to treat each other with respect and if people have to spend 6 months to a year roleplaying in some kind of Eyes Wide Shut orgy mask to lessen the importance of OOC identities as being a major point of aggression? I'm alright. With that.
@Monogram That's smart of you.
I'm willing to believe that 90% of everyone on this forum are not pieces of shit. I've had spats with people, even called people rude names, but despite that I still don't think it's likely at all that they're shitty people. In this say and age it is easy to lose compassion and just flame someone over the internet, just like every comments section of every CNN post on Facebook.
But the end result is that people will read how you talk to people, it might make them want to distance from you, and you'll end up being casually avoided because of your behavior on MSB during a period where you weren't at your best.
MUers may not have entirely control over how they're viewed due to the number of judgmental people (and miscommunication that happen) out there, but since most people tend to not end up paging or skyping with people who have decided to view them in a negative light, those opinions don't tend to change.
Best to be aware of that
@Lotherio said in How to Escape the OOC Game:
I have more appreciation for 2 now, 20 years later at least.
...something inside me just hemorrhaged at reading that.
I think the answer lies in the self.
"You determine your own level of involvement in Fight Club"
-Tyler Durden, or is it Cornelius?
In a very Taoist way, I think it's important to understand that many of these fears, claims of damage, and issues stem from a sense of outward-facing vigilance that can feed paranoia and anxiety and turn into something else.
They are doing this. They will not do this. They have harmed me.
In comes the Tao. Realistically, not one single musher has true control over their mushing experience, and I think it's important to acknowledge that. Each person in this hobby needs to constantly revisit their level of enjoyment, their level of drama, their level of safety, and not ask "how do I get people to do this right?" or "Who is ruining this for me?" but instead "is this healthy for me?"
It's a practice that can apply to anything (job, marriage, underwater hockey league which just this year I found out is an actual thing), and I think it's important to revisit this line of thinking whenever you hit a point where the frustration is enough to make you flee. When you say "Fuck this" and turn off your game client, that's your body, mind, and soul's way of telling you that this thing is not making you feel good.
But it's not everyone else's job to upkeep that for you.
It's not "if I quit then the bad actors win". It doesn't need to be that difficult. I suggest this approach:
...Quit the game.
YOU (as in general you) control your level of commitment, obsession, and pain that you are willing to endure on these games. YOU are not entitled to anything from strangers on the internet whom you have no legal or contractual agreements with. You. Cannot. Control. These. People.
Until it becomes about you, it will always be about them. Who They are will always change. There will always be someone upsetting you. There will always be some person fucking around. There will always be people you do not see eye to eye with or who will do things your way.
If staff are unwilling to deal with truly abusive online behavior or if other players are regularly being mean to you, then there's no the bad actors win. The bad actors have won. Reassess your level of emotional investment, and if you're not happy to proceed do something else.
I promise you that it is the only answer with a high success rate, because it's about you taking care of you; which is a thing that none of these fuckin mushers can take away from you. Nor should you allow them.
A great thing happened to me RL yesterday.
I was in my room getting changed out of work clothes and into comfy after-work clothes. My SO walked in and said:
"Hey, I just threw a pizza in the oven. Think we can get the job done in under 15 minutes?"
loinfight then pizza for the win.
@Arkandel I agree with your view in spirit. I'm all for everyone owning their stuff. Their stuff, not the stuff people diagnose via confirmation bias as being their intent regardless of the person claiming "they didn't mean that".
Nasty habit in this hobby that some people abuse. Perspective matters, but perspective is often subjective and subject to rigidity based on the level of anger in the accuser. I think that's where a lot of these fights come from, and I hope to see more people hashing out their differences rather than quick-snapping to the court of public opinion/whisper network character assassination.
@surreality She's one of my favorite things ever.
A few weeks ago we had a weekend best described as: "Drunk on whiskey, hanging out in the hot tub, and playing Diablo 3 in our underwear"
@faraday said in GMs: Typical Player/GM Bad Habits:
If you just boiled it down to "I roll to figure out what's the best way into this building"
You touched on this and I wanted to say, I think this is super important to think/focus on, IMO.
All too often, GMs railroad, envision specific methods that are the only solution to their riddle, or punish players for making decisions that the GM may think are stupid.
I find that most of the time a player tries so hard to do nothing until they can coax the GM to tell them exactly which key will unlock the next level, its because of the above. Sometimes it's just a powergamer looking to slam dunk a one-roll solution to a problem, but overall I think players get into this bad habit as a result of being used to GMs who railroad or try to force them to guess the sole solution.
So everything you're saying, in my opinion, is solid advice for building gamers who think for their solutions and to get out of the bad habit of always trying to find the golden ticket solution.
Hey gang, just wanted to share something that might interest people who are into podcasts. A friend of mine is a part of "THE REDACTED REPORTS", which is an "actual play" (where they play the Delta Green RPG and record it) podcast. For those not in the know, Delta Green takes place in the "Call of Cthulhu" universe where a team (delta green!) of investigators is sent out to track cults, murderers, and the threats of the Old Gods.
It's a fun time, so give it a listen!
TRR on Spotify
TRR Facebook
Patreon
@Roz said in GMs: Typical Player/GM Bad Habits:
@Ghost said in GMs: Typical Player/GM Bad Habits:
I hesitate to say that maybe there's a better way, like include in the prp signup a quick one-sentence explanation of how their character would be involved. Probably wouldn't go over well though if PrP runners got to pick their players.
That's so fucking nuts to me. I know exactly what you mean, and you're right that people would get salty, but that salt would be straight-up bullshit. If a PRP runner has a lot of demand, they should be able to pick from the volunteers whoever might be best suited and most fun for the plot they have in mind. But I also hate the signup system that boils down to "first come, first serve," because it just favors -- whoever's online when the event gets announced.
Right. Realistically it'd be great for a GM to weed out the "I'm bored and just wanna play" people from the people who have a distinct reason to be involved in the PrP, but ho-leeee-shit it would not go over well.
But then again I've dropped OUT of PrPs because another player I knew needed the scene more than me. I'd like to see more of that, too. Maybe ask "hey this person didn't sign up in time, but the PrP is currently important to their stuff. Anyone keen to give up their seat?"