@Arkandel
It's going to have Mazikeen, which is all I needed to hear. >_>
Honestly when my wife told me about this a while back my initial response was "Hahaha what the fuck? That sounds dumb.", but after thinking about it, Lucifer running off to LA and deciding to spend some time working with the cops doesn't really strike me as any more or less weird than the other stuff he just up and decided to do in the comics.
I find that having a general game philosophy for larger scenes that becomes part of the culture.
I feel like maybe somebody mugged this sentence on the way to the board, maybe rifled through its pockets and stole a word or two. Is it just me?
@tragedyjones said:
@ThatGuyThere said:
I would agree with Raptor if I ran an NWoD 2.0 tabletop I would scrap the whole god machine concept completely. Just not my cup of tea. Much like when I ran NWoD Mage table top I excised any mention of Atlantis.
Honestly I think the basic God Machine as driving plot force is why I am so meh about the second round of NWoD.
I don't think ist is a bad idea just one I find to be almost the platonic ideal of uninteresting.It is only the driving force behind Demon, really. And to clarify, @HelloRaptor I only downvoted your for the Promethean hate. Hater.
Honestly man, I didn't even notice. And I just assume any downvotes I get are @Coin or @Glitch anyway, because reasons. >_>
Except that it's literally a machine.
In reading her comment back over I'd guess she means that if she had her way she'd strip the 'it is literally a machine' from it? Maybe.
he only reason that it is referred to as a "machine" is because it is inevitable.
How does that jive with it being composed of actual machinery? >_>
You didn't even upvote once, you lying liar!
I did too. Not usre why it says 0, but if you mouse over the 0 in his post it shows my name. Maybe Glitch is trolling me. Or maybe I think up/downvote stuff is pretty dumb so don't use it enough to get it right. <_<
@Thenomain said:
I was pointed at the latest Fairest write-up.
I was, frankly, disappointed. I hope to be wrong, and I expect to be wrong, but I'm seeing it saying things like, "People flock to you to be the leader," as a truism for choosing the character. We've been through this before in oChangeling with Sidhe, and it does not go well.
I will have to go through tOP's first-fraft Fairest discussion thread.
From what I've heard over the years the absence of a clear cut Sidhe/leadership/alpha/etc archetype has gotten more complaints over the lifetime of nChangeling than almost anything else. Which is pretty fucking funny-sad, but kind of understandable.
@Admiral said:
The God Machine is the Weaver. He won and banished the rest of the Triat and rebuilt the World of Darkness without all of the excitement of the old universe.
It's why nWoD is so stale.
A++, would upvote again.
Wow, it took four whole posts before someone complained! New record.
You can't give people awesome but terrible junk food for ages, then take it away and replace it with stale but efficient and more or less healthy MRE rations, and not expect the complaints to be ongoing. Even after they're resigned to their fate.
My God-Machine is the nWoD version of Iteration-X, a machine that infests itself throughout folds of reality that is so extensive that it doesn't always know what other parts are doing, slow to act but complete in its implementation.
I think you mean the nWoD version of The Computer, the fusion of AI and spirit in Autochthonia that ran Iteration-X's shit until they wised up after Revised. >_>
Edit:
@tragedyjones
In my world there is no God-Machine, because all hyperbole aside, I find it to be one of the absolute worst ideas to come out of nWoD outside of Promethean.
@Coin said:
@HelloRaptor said:
then the privileged class is going to have to stop basing their privilege on those days, too.
How would anyone even go about doing that?
Pretty much my point, i.e., it isn't going to happen.
Ah, fair enough.
then the privileged class is going to have to stop basing their privilege on those days, too.
How would anyone even go about doing that?
Marginalizing a black person's opinions as "froth" really makes you seem like a wonderful human being, HR.
In no world is noting that posting a link as evidence of something that the link is nothing like or the exact opposite of marginalizing anything, it's pointing out that you're either wildly mistaken or trolling.
You can go two for two and grandstand about how I've failed to make any point whatsoever
I freely acknowledged more than one of your points. If not agreeing with all of them counts as grandstanding about your failures, regardless of you supporting some of those points with (again) links that entirely undercut those points, then I suppose you'd be right.
I have not been engaging in a debate - merely laying bare my own internal feelings about my condition, but, of course, you were too busy going for my throat.
I haven't been engaging in debate either, just discussion. That you can't tell the one from the other is another of those failures of yours I'm so keen on pointing out, I guess.
And, because it really bears mentioning more than just two times, the only thing I 'went for your throat' on was either an amazingly stupid mistake or you being a troll. Given how often you're the latter, how often you've reveled in being the latter, I erred on the side of you just being an asshole.
But you're either mistaken, or you're wrong, and that you can't even admit it's either of those things is just making you look like more of a troll.
Thanks. I appreciate you and your efforts. You imply there was something at stake here for me; I put it to you that you are wrong.
I would even go as far as to put it to you that I expected indifference and hostility in your response: since when have white people ever affirmed the hardship Afro-Americans and the African Diaspora experience?
Never. I'd be a fool to expect you to act otherwise.
So just trolling all the way down, then.
It was hardly as cut-and-dry as HR would have us think. I had been following that unfortunate woman's case since it made headlines.
I didn't say anything about anything being cut-and-dry, nor did I say anything about the woman's case. I pointed out that China's legal system is notoriously brutal to everyone and executions of both native citizens and foreigners accused of smuggling are notoriously out of control.
The article posted (nor any of the others I looked up before writing my reply) mentioned absolutely nothing, from anyone anywhere, about the execution being racially motivated. No accusations of China's bias against black skin or African descent, not even a passing mention of her being an outsider weighing in on one side or another.
The only thing that's 'cut and dried' is that the only assertion that this woman's execution had anything to do with the color of her skin or the continent of her origin, comes from Cirno. It's pretty fucking shitty to twist the bullshit execution of a human being so that it looks like it supports your argument, when it doesn't.
Did I miss anything, @Cirno? Because I looked, when you first posted it, because I had no idea there was any specific hostility against black people in China (outside of the general racism towards anyone who isn't Chinese) and wondered if maybe you just chose a bad link to support your point. And I looked again before posting this, because fuck maybe my google foo was poor, and I'm wrong. Does anyone except you mention anywhere on the internet that this woman's execution was motivated or complicated by the color of her skin? If they do, then fuck me, I will write up the most amazingly heartfelt apology to you.
But if not, fuck you for being such a disgusting little troll that you'd use a woman's execution just to provoke peole on a gaming forum.
I don't know why white people always collapse with fear at the idea of having to apologize for the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade(TAST); subsequently, they say silly things like this.
"OMG, maybe EVERYBODY might hafta apologize for slavery!"
No. No, they won't.
I hear this argument a lot, HR.
Which is maybe why you think you're hearing it now, when you aren't.
My grandfather was a pretty normal looking white guy, aside from being crazy tall. I didn't even know myself where his family came from until I was nearly an adult. He was still a white guy from America, which certainly qualifies him as 'white people'.
If I had a silly thing to say or ask as a result, it'd probably be more one that's already been echoed: How far back does it go, and how related do you have to be, before you're expected to be apologetic or feel responsible for things people did before you existed? Does my mother, if fully half her ancestry comes from people who had nothing to do with it, or does the other half take precedence? Does a first generation mix between white southern slave owners and the descendant of African slaves need to apologize? These aren't protests, or rhetorical questions meant to illustrate anything, I just don't have the personal context to answer them myself.
Finland does not have a large population of black people, yet the White Finnish bitterly hate black people.
While link posted features a Somalian woman, and a Somali slur as an example, both she and it indicate that the racism in Finland is omnidirectional against anyone who isn't all three of: White, Finnish speaking, Christian. Any sort of immigrant status or darker skin, is subject to it. I'm not sure using an example of one black person who herself says otherwise is an example of black people having special status where bigotry is concerned.
The Chinese government displayed their fangs by ruthlessly executing a black female.
Yeah, citing an article that indicates 'thousands of people are executed for drug trafficking every year - more than the rest of the world combined' as if it showcases any kind of racism because one of those thousands had black skin, is just making you look more and more like the troll no matter how much you try to use italics to insinuate that it's all in our heads. If anything it points out that China treats people with black skin just as shittily as they treat people with any other hue of skin. Equality for all, I guess, in the most gruesome way possible.
I really have no idea whether or not Finland or China are particularly hard on black/African folks or not, but neither of those articles supports the idea that they are, and you putting them up as if they do is undercutting the rest of your points. If all you care about is frothing random bullshit at The Enemy Because Fuck You, then... okay?
For a minute there I thought you were actually trying to engage in a discussion, but it seems less likely by the post.
It always feels like people that dislike mage usually don't understand it or dislike "that one type of mage player" which is a kind of player you find in EVERY sphere/game/insert some shit here.
The bulk of dislike for Mage has only a vague relationship with 'that one type of mage player', and everything to do with a few things:
There's others, but those three are a lot of why.
He will be a generic white dude who claims 1/64 Navajo heritage and calls people brah.
I'm picturing Trent from Undateable.
And yes, I know when Iron Man came out RDJ's career wasn't going well, or that Hemsworth or Jackman were basically unknowns when they first put on the costumes but they already had that... whatever it is that makes a star quality.
Being white, male, and moderately to very attractive? 
@Coin said:
@Midgardener said:
As well, Beast might be so far Out There that it'll never see a MU, ever.
That's what they said about Demon.
@Coin said:
@TNP said:
@Coin said:
We have very, very, very little black people.
Did anyone else immediately picture black Lilliputians? With or without Coin tied to the ground as Gulliver?
A very small amount.
(Because they're so tiny.)
New thread: Why does @Coin talk down to black people?
Hunter Player A (Victim) has been PK'D by Hunter Player B (Aggressor) and its a huge mess and he's claiming OOC flipout as justification because of past psychological trauma RL,
Hunter Sphere she talked to OOC - They do not at this time have any IC info on how she died or even that she's dead...BUT. "We want to PK Hunter B to death!!!! We'll all quit if we get blocked!"
...I would just ban all of these motherfuckers, on the face of it here. >_>
Unfortunately, even as Ashur, I did not have the authority to kick people off the game permanently.
Too bad, because yeah, all of them.
Troy had already been run over by the staffers prone to frothing fits. Once she decides how something is going to be handled and who has to do it, that is pretty much that.
Sure, I just feel like when this comes up there's a lot of hand wringing about how nobody on staff was willing to deal with it, and rules had to be made so that staff wouldn't be forced to deal with it, and that's simply not the case. There's stuff I don't like, stuff I'm not comfortable with, but at the end of the day it's all fictional shit that's not actually happening to anyone, and at worst I'm going to find it one of the many moderately unpleasant things I might have to do as staff. Given how moderately unpleasant I felt dealing with maybe half of the other people on staff, because there were some really, really stupid people I was forced to deal with... enh.
I'll take adjucating damage levels on a torn anus over having to work with a good dozen staffers I dealt with there any day of the week. Not you, mind. I think I was mean to you a few times here, but only because you were the mouthpiece for shitty decisions. I always felt like you tried your best to do what you could with what you were given, which is more than I can say for some of those assholes.
You seem to be a lot less susceptible to people whining and crying and having fits then Troy or I though.
I offered a couple of times to be the hardass, but it never flew. Probably because I'd have required the authority to actually follow through with whatever I decided. <_<
people demanding that staff assess damages for violent rape, and make pregnancy rolls
Because saying, "1 or 2 Lethal, take your pick, and no because whether or not a character gets pregnant has always been the purview of the player of that character. Decide for yourself. Make a roll if you want, but it's not our call." would have been just far too onerous an effort.
Yeah, sweeping rules were totally the better way of handling it.
Staff doesn't want to read gory, disgusting rape logs to decide if you anus is damaged.
See above. Nobody ever had to read anything if they didn't care to, they just had to reply with a few sentences that amount to 'This doesn't require staff intervention.'
The first time was 'only' the usual rape clusterfuck with the rapist getting killed and demanding to be immune to punishment.
"This is a non-consent game, so no."
She plays out her vampire sexytimes, he finds out, flips OOC, has his character immediately PK her 'because he failed to protect her'.
The whole Hunter sphere flipped out and started demanding that they be allowed to hunt him down and kill him over her, IC.
Troy and I needed hip waders and shovels to deal with all that crap.
You didn't really. At least not for the reasons stated here. He had his character kill her character, they could in turn kill his, and I'm betting that would have more or less been the end of it. Why would they need to demand to be allowed to kill him? Did they just assume they couldn't?
How on earth did the conversation not go:
PLAYERS: This character killed his girlfriend, we demand that our characters be allowed to kill him for it.
STAFF: Okay? Have combat rolls started yet? Call for a ST when they do, if you guys need one.
We ended up retconning the death, warning her that the next time she did this she was for real losing the character
Yes, how dare a player engage in roleplay other players might find fucked up or traumatic. Good thing you instituted a rule about how if you're going to roleplay anything that anyone might find fucked up and/or traumatic to deal with, they get forms signed in triplicate from everyone they interact w-... oh right, my bad, just the one thing.
and ordering him to stay far away from her player. (No contact. At all.)
The point at which I have to order one player to have no contact, at all, ever with another player, is the point at which I'm just removing one of those players from the game. I'd probably flip a coin, given all the givens here.
On the subject of staff being unwilling to deal with any of this:
I call bullshit most foul. During at least one of these incidents (I believe it was the 'assessing damage' one, with whatsisface the were-scorpion or whatever he was) I was on staff on TR and there were multiple staffers (myself included) who indicated they were willing to handle the situation and any future such situations (rape or otherwise) which might come up.
We were told not to, and then treated with everything from derision to open antagonism for even indicating we'd be willing to handle it.
Mostly? We just want the descendants of slavemasters to admit that their forbears were nigger-killing slavemasters, instead of "legitimate businessmen", and that much of the capital now called "old money" in The USA is, in fact, money that was earned on the backs of slaves.
Slavery is a matter of pretty open history. I can't even recall the last time I heard anyone try to claim that it didn't happen, and the people who try to act as if it was a good thing or that the slave owners of the time weren't pretty much monsters are routinely ridiculed for either trolling or just being plain crazy. But if it matters: Some of my ancestors were nigger-killing slavemasters, and the vast bulk of the fortunes held by the richest white folks have their origins in exploitation of slave labor. Anybody who tries to make excuses for why their actions were justified by the period or whatever else is a delusional asshole of the highest order.
How far does this extend, though? My grandmother was descended from southern stock so there's surely some ancestral guilt there, but my grandfather was first generation American descended from Polish immigrants who were themselves little better than serfs. Or may have actually been serfs. Did Poland have serfs? Anyway, would he have to apologize, despite nobody in his ancestry having been nigger-killing slavemasters? I'm not going anywhere with that, no 'AH HA, GOTCHA!' planned, I just wondered.
No sarcasm or derisive tone intended by either part of that.
Look, I'm not racist, there's brown people in my ancestory.
Is there some kind of percentage of brown people you need to have in your ancestry before it's okay to say shit that only sounds racist if you're white?
@Bennie said:
There is something inherently wrong (imo) with how fluid IC and OOC are for some folks.
I treat everything like an actual table, at a convention. I wouldn't take my clothes off there and shag in front of 500 geeks-like-me, so why would I do it on a game? What I do with my character, is just that, something the character is doing.
I'm not really sure which angle you're trying to take here. If it's to poke fun at folks who think people only TS while naked and fapping, more power to you, I guess?
I think a lot could be helped if people could just admit when they're twisted-up OOC and no longer really playing the game. I'm certainly not looking down my nose at people that meet online and go off to get married or make kidlets or buy a house together, or whatever, or shag at cons with irregular frequency as their thing. But come on. We're supposed to be logging in to play a game. It's not friggin' Match.com.
How is this any different from people who tabletop together for years and go off to get married or make kidlets or buy a house together or whatever, or just shag at cons with irregular frequency as their thing? Because looking at most of the tabletop groups I've seen who have played for the better part of a decade, various degrees of all of those things have happened.
MU*ing is a social experience. For a lot of people it's just as social as a tabletop group, and over long periods of time it's almost inevitable that OOC relationships form, outside of corner case robots like @Ganymede.
If all that big ramble was to say that people should keep the IC relationships IC and the OOC relationships OOC and not confuse the one with the other, then yes, absolutely.
