Posts made by mietze

I like the idea of people being able to "act" using graphics utilizing their face or to incorporate sound/voice in the actual rp if that's what they enjoy, though I would argue that would be a fundamental change to what I enjoy about mushing and would be more like enhanced virtual tabletop to me--I like tabletop but that has absolutely no appeal at all. But I do not see anything wrong with and would in fact cheerlead for folks developing that. I just don't think it's a magical formula.

I have seen more innovations in types and formats of games in the last 5ish years than I have in awhile. I would like the community to support more of that even when it is not their yum, as well as to be more supportive of first time runners. I just dont think that the mushing community was ever large to begin with (it is super incestuous), I do not think we are going to see the huge lists of active games that happened with all the GOMO clones and when people played on 6 different games, ect.

Sometimes I think we get in our own way of achieving drawing in new folks because of how vicious and kind of debbie downer people can get when a game opens that they dont care for the person running it or the theme, or how people freak out if there is a lull, ect.

@Arkandel that is just the thing though. It is more widespread both in access and content.

Why would you assume that mushing would expand at the same rate?

People are finding it that enjoy it for what it is, text based usually real time roleplaying without graphics or sound, that can run on any machine/device just about that can sustain an internet connection.

That is super niche. It doesn't surprise me that people who find that lacking will lean more into other stuff. Or that people who do enjoy it also enjoy other things and will divide their time further because there's more options for pastimes.

I think the folks who seem to think that there is some magical marketing technique or some interface that will radically make it so that mushing is hot amongst those 20 something that are interested in online RP--i think that's engaging in some denial right there.

I missed a stripe of my forehead when applying sunscreen so tomorrow AM I will look like I have actually been headdesking (on the edge of my station even!)...but it was super fun to see the teens ride on all the adult/teen rides AND take the 5 year old on all the kiddie rides he wanted a buddy on (just a few of the almost-big ones) happily. It has been awhile since I have had the energy to take the kids to the fair, so it was a sweet moment before a probably intense school year (I will have a senior, two juniors, and a kindergartener, so trying to really appreciate the time I have left with everyone).

I also think that it's vastly underestimated the strength of the response that people have when something previously run by volunteers is made for-profit, or where it is expected that the community financially support a couple of professional staff. Having been through that conversion process--it is very ugly. You run the risk of turning off some of your best and most loyal supporters and audience for a new one (which is fine, sometimes it needs to be done).

So it's very important to weight the losses that you will invariably have for the gains you will make. Yes, it would be great to get more under 30s in. Are you willing to say "fuck you bye!" to a huge amount of older people who have been the mainstay and who have been involved for decades, for people you aren't sure will stay out the year, just for the sake of improving your game demographics?

What problem are you trying to solve by monetizing or encouraging monetizing as a whole? Will this lower or raise the barriers to entry both for the person trying out the hobby, and the problems faced by game creators or potential game creators?

The truth is, that while it is important to get new blood in, it's actually pretty important to keep old blood in too. Might not want to shit too much on the nostalgia/current players, in the hopes that you might somehow find the formula to bring in a handful of extra younger people (who may or may not be great assets to the community, just like everyone else).

Personally out of all the ideas here, I think someone creating a MUSH with a theme that younger folks would recognize/respond to is the best one. I know a ton of young players that started trying out new-to-them but old fogey themes because they really got into mushing based on something that they did like.

Also, frankly, 20 somethings are not aliens from another planet who can't relate to older people or who are less capable of trying new things? It doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't adapt to the tools we have now (AGAIN THANK YOU FARADAY, even 10 years ago I /never/ would have thought I'd be able to be working on my own place, and now that is a goal that I can actuall achieve), I love all the incorporation of web based stuff on Arx, ect.

I think continuing those innovations and empowering the young folks IN the hobby to set up /the games with themes that they would like to see/ (and checking them out/supporting/playing there when it happens) might be the best way to get more people in. Rather than thinking they need to be spoonfed. In my experience, they need it less than older people.

@gryphter as I said, I'm sure some people would. But the numbers is the problem. Could reduce that with ad revenue or little boosts for in game stuff, but in my experience is is where the community gets uneasy about it real quick. And do most game runners want to deal with that sort of nickel and diming? You should probably hire someone who loves it (they are out there) but then that is another expense.

In order for me to "make a living" off of a game, I would need to bring in around 75k in my area, which thankfully would still allow the kids to be on state health insurance (if it didnt, probably need to add an extra 10 grand.) This is largely because our house has way more equity than we owe (for emergency purposes), we have retirement and some college savings (plus my college kids will have access to need based $$$)

Assuming that I could deal with 200 PCs now entitled to a full service game, would they be willing to pay me $360/year, per PC, just to make a living myself? I would realistically need to hire staff. Depending on how many, I would need to alter my business license, and be subject to additional fees/collected funds. Luckily setting up an LLC is easy and cheap, in my case I already have one but it's a PLLC so I think I'd get another one.

I mean, it is a lot more work and things to consider than just the fantasy. Would people be willing to subscribe for $30/mo and probably plus if there was staff involved which there would need to be for folks believing themselves to be purchasing a paid game services? I'm sure there are a few but probably not many.

Now, if you were aiming to charge for just a little money on the side, or solely to recoup the costs of hosting? That's more reasonable.

I do think that generationally some people may have the equivalent of you tube celebrity or successful podcaster "making a living" in mind, but I also think it is forgotten how small of a percentage of people make it, plus just how many subscribers/views you must have, constant need to bring new people in, how to manage advertising since that is a major source of revenue and also underestimating about how hard those folks have to work to constant put out new content.

I am not sure if streaming is the same as far as work/business management but I cannot imagine it is that different.

BUT. I mean if we are moving more to web based playability, I do not see anything wrong with allowing ads, ect. I just do not think the average single game is going to have enough hits, based on successful folks I know personally who have done podcasting and/or blogging before that.

@gryphter no, I am sorry. That may be something some people enjoy dreaming about, but a lot of other people have legitimate concerns about the business aspect of it. Either because that is how their mind works , because they have owned their own business before or have other applicable experience, ect. There was a brief fad of people trying to monetize mushes in the 00s, maybe late 90s. I think it could be done and there was one experiment where it went okay (but nobody "lived off" the game) but I do not think that's a model that is sustainable for how most folks want to run a game.

@gryphter no, we havent all dreamed of how great monetizing would be. In fact it is a topic that comes up now and then as something that many people see a lot of pitfalls in and would never want, either on admin side or player side.

@gryphter it's good juice. I love me a good mai tai!

Jesus christ. I thought hearing my boys say milady every other sentence when they were in jr high was bad, but now everything is "pog" and I am so fucking old that EVERY time I think to myself WTF are they talking about the juice for."

@faraday it is super easy. I have no code experience at all, and break out into hives over it, but even though I dont understand the detailed tutorials I have been doing okay and gaining understanding. I think for someone with just a teeny bit more experience it would be a breeze.

@Ghost the "writing with others" is the key factor here. I cannot tell you how many times I have encountered people who were very rude or thoughtless towards others because they did not understand why people were reacting negatively or avoiding them, even though they felt they were writing beautifully, and had to handhold them through understanding that process.

Writing skill and interest isn't really enough, and I would not want to set someone up like that. I would rather be honest with someone I am inviting in, as to what they can realistically expect, and also thinking also of value added to the community.

There are lots of nice and awesome people who will not take to the medium, and some people who are constant problems who will still keep going at it.

I just do not see the value in recruiting just to have more bodies or handwringing over certain demographics. Build and improve the tools (add me to the long list of people praising Ares for making mushing accessible without the need for a special client or telnet, making slower time scenes possible, ect to reflect the realities of how things have changed tech wise and use wise!), but it is still mushing that has to capture people's interest, which it definitely will for some people. New people are still joining up despite more options for interactive entertainment out there.

And to be clear, a majority of dicks I have encountered in the hobby have outright said that they didnt really care to pay attention or interact with any story but the one that they felt entitled to control, and would engage in manipulative or abusive behavior to try to assert that control. Most were actually excellent writers, both in scenes and in fast talking ooc. It is why when I think of great people to invite to join the hobby, writing skill alone is not at the top of my particular list. I just know 3 very successful dicks out of the many more that I have encountered, two of whom were actually praised for their writing ability in scenes (just...not for their control/truthiness issues outside of it!)

I will fully admit that I derive a lot of amusement from people assuming that because someone got their ass kicked off of a few games and/or they are loudly hated by some segment of the MUSHing community, that therefore they must be a talentless loser or cannot function in the real world.

There's lots of successful people who are dicks. There are a lot of people who can hold in their dickishness when they're in the presence of people who "count'. Of course, I'm sure it's helpful if one is NOT a dick too! And there's lots of truly genuinely caring and wonderful and normal people out there too. But it's not like people who are real assholes on games don't get to enjoy a real successful run and lots of attention/accolades ON games sometimes too, at least for awhile.

Personality aside, I think that MUSHing is kind of a unique environment, where if you approach it from a pure "I am going to write this story, and do whatever I want," you're going to quickly run into trouble, probably just as much as the people who think that all they need to do is just react once in awhile to what other people have written. I would never recommend it to someone who doesn't seem to understand that it's not just THEIR story that they'll be part of, or who doesn't seem to be able to relate well to other people or at least be able to maintain a level of cordial-to-polite ooc behavior towards others (even though that's always been a problem since way back when).

I don't think that it's really age that is the issue in regards to people in the hobby. While I don't run into this every week or anything like that, I regularly meet mushers new and experienced who are under 30. I do think there are more options available than before, I think that the early worker/starting career age of folks have to work a lot harder in a less stable environment with less RL protections than I had to at their age, so time is a factor too and that isn't often talked about. The technology/code is not harder to use than someone like ME trying to figure out Trello. I just think it's a unique sort of thing that is not going to appeal to everyone even if they like RPGs or tabletop systems or even group storytelling, and I think that's okay.

I also don't think mushing will die out for awhile. After all, some of us are reaching retirement age in less than 10 years! Which means there will in theory be just as much time or more for the dragons to be online as they had when they first started out as young whippersnappers. I'm kind of looking forward to that, actually. My two favorite players on TR (who were the nicest, most sane, and actually pretty kick ass storytellers) were pushing 60.

It is interesting that most of the mushers I know of that have successfully bridged into success in the fiction writing world or white wolf/other professional rpg writing...often are not looked at as great members of the mushing community, and at least 3 of them are reviled.

So I'm not sure that someone whose talent and interest is in stories and novels that they control wholly is a great candidate for entering the mush community.

Bigots are human too, really. I've heard a lot of good and interesting conversations with them about other topics, especially at family gatherings, it's not like they're not people who (usually) have people they love and care for and would make sacrifices for, ect. Just like people who are not bigots can be mean as fuck too, when it comes to how they act towards certain others, and nice people can be dumb.

Temporarily right now because I am still new to the admin dashboard and cannot confirm the identity, but likely to be permanent when either Ark or Gany can review to makes sure.

I use soda but I really think pop is cute and wish I had grown up using that. My favorite great aunt called it sody-pop so my heart feels happy when I hear pop being used.

After immense weight gain for a variety of reasons, and realizing that pretty much my life is unlikely to become less stressful for the foreseeable future I did the following:

Discontinued the family y membership now that we only have 1 child in activites instead of 3, when it requires me to drive 30 minutes to get to the facility because of traffic.

Joined a local gym with far less programming but has the machines I like AND best of all a stream room and sauna.

My self care now includes 3x week hydrotherapy rotation and still takes me less time than going to the Y for a 30 min workout and quick shower.

@Tinuviel said in MU* Gripes and Peeves:

Beren came,
And doom fell on Tinúviel
That in his arms lay glistening.

I have to admit, it made me giggle.