@Bennie said:
And even that isn't really what we're talking about, which is rollover.
I disagree with the assertion that the dinosaur IC and OOC isn't a part of rollover--one of the reason why I am thinking through this issue is because I think it is an unintended consequence of full rollover--both in a stats sense but also in a player entitlement sense. Not everyone is like that but certainly it can be a big problem revolving around those that are like that.
I think one problem that I still see MUSH side is this idea that people who lose a characters should have the expectation that they'll be able to spring back similarly influential in IC. Maybe it's not intentional but that is a little of what I hear when I hear people say "but I don't want to do the grind to the top." Except, if you bring in a new PC to the area, why shouldn't you expect that you will not be immediately on the top of the heap? In most cases that's not an IC or thematic expectation.
While that makes sense in a tabletop setting and perhaps in a LARP, on a MUSH I think what pragmatically happens when you have the expectation of absolutely no loss of power level from old PC to new PC, is that there is also stagnation of players that get leadership roles. Some of that comes from one's network and people thinking "Oh, that player knows/is connected to this staff person and that group of old timey PCs" and gravitating towards that. But it also has the effect of keeping new people out of leadership roles even when they are clearly able to participate (and sometimes, being less jaded/busy/needing to bust their butts to build the connections, they're actually showing more initiative and activity than the dinosaurs too).
This may be less of a concern for smaller MUSHes with staff who keep that in mind than larger ones too, I think. And maybe it's not a solvable problem (or only I think it's a problem--I admit that I do like at least there to be a solid chance of new blood getting a chance for some of the top tier spots in leadership).
Day to day I do not wear makeup. Since my oldest was for a very long time very much a tomboy and all the rest of my children are male I honestly did not really expect to deal with it much--but since she has really started getting into it it's been a fun bonding experience. It's another excuse to sit down with my teen for an activity that she is very much in control over (since I don't know crap about it, she's the one teaching me or making me over so I'm not too embarassing 
and no, she doesn't say that to me, I like to tease her about it though), doing something, talking or not depending on her mood or indirectly chatting about what's going on (she also likes to come down to my practice and get a one hour massage every other week too, which is similar in that she tells me what she wants, she decides what if any aromatherapy, she picks the music, ect.).
So I think I understand at least the appeal now when I see her friends and her shopping for makeup/trying new things and sending silly snapchat or whatever pics to each other, ect. 
I am not sure if that's how ALL women get into makeup. Maybe I just didn't because I'm an only child who had pretty much all male friends until I was an adult and out of college!
This reminds me of when a few of the Cirque performers came to my Y (while they were in town). Sweet guys, super friendly--who also stopped traffic in the hallways (the weight room has windows that open up into the corridor) especially when the little old ladies got out of water aerobics class.
I used to do a lot of tabata, but instead of looking interesting I was fighting the urge to dry heave into the trashcan depending on what we were doing. Kinda of how like TRX in theory should look really hot, but thanks to my hypermobile joints amongst other issues I end up looking/feeling like I'm one step away from a sideshow (and not a flattering one) if I'm not careful.
I like going to the gym too, but I have serious issues with the whole "all you need to do to lose weight is to eat less and move more." I mean, that is true in the purest sense. But having lost over 125 lbs almost 5 years ago and until pregnancy last year maintained that loss within 15 lbs (and even now I've still maintained most of it)...it's just a little more complicated than that for some people. I wish that I only had to tackle the physical act of losing. To me that's the easy part. Maintenance was harder, and dealing with OtherStuff was harder too.
If someone wants to run in front of a fan or isn't ready to sign up for a triathlon when they first start to move more, that's okay with me. It may not be the most efficient or correct way. But still, even the little old ladies who go to the gym every day and yet never lose weight or whatever--it's still getting them active in ways that they weren't before, and that still does have a benefit. I have done a tri (that and running half-marathons seem to be The Thing women of My Certain Age like to do). But if some had told me that I should the first time I tiptoed into the gym and felt so gross and ashamed, I probably would have run for the hills. Or if they told me I needed to hurt and suffer for it to go anywhere.
I started out just drinking more water and following a silly C25K podcast and doing Zumba (the big fad at the time). It was fun, it got me in the habit of Doing Things In Front Of Other People. Gradually the other stuff like good nutrition and resistance training and maybe I can do cool athletic things too started to come in when I was ready for them.
That's largely what I've noticed, HR. Though I think people who are inclined to cling are likely to do so regardless of rollover. Just like there are some people that frankly are always going to be altoholics whether or not they keep their PC. It's just that I have noticed the "disposable" thing creeping into more and more people and more expectations elsewhere, and I personally wish that wasn't so.
Of course I also think it's problematic when top tier/leadership PCs roll back in to the sphere they left and because of their connections and backed up by their sheet there's no room for movement up the chain for other people. Some people handle that better than others, though.
That being said, as long as you know what you're in store for, I actually found the books to be really funny, both intentionally and not--but they were suggested to me when I was in my MUSHing hiatus as a way to feel like was on an OOC channel/room/gossip circle of a game without actually needing to go through the trouble of making a bit.
I can't decide whether to fuck a vampire, feral, or werewolf--awww hell, let's do all three! Or several of each kind! All at once! Because I have a flaw/merit that compels me, it's all in the name of story! 
I think there is sometimes a difference in demeanor/complaint volume between staying at home partners and working outside of the home partners. It's not necessarily due to parenting styles, though it can be.
I wrecked my original response to this by putting it in the wrong thread, but in essence...even though the inmates were largely the same, I had different complaints/exasperation levels as a corrections officer when I was with them for 10 hours during the day shift, vs 4 on the floor and the rest on nighttime lockdown for overnight shift. Even though disciplinary procedures and expectations were identical. And the inmates reacted way more positively to the night time staff vs. daytime because of it too--I rarely had to put an individual in lockdown or dock them points or whatever on night shift, but had to all the time during the day. They listened to and liked me better on nighttime. The routine was different, the level of annoyance of me having to deal with them and them dealing with me was different, ect.
Basically it's like the kind of people on a MUSH that a lot of us make fun of.
Yep. It's why I try to make sure there's at least 1 other person who at least professes interest in sharing STing now! There are people who are just fine with taking on all of it, but I find I enjoy getting to play with everyone (including any regular STs) on their PCs, in addition to STing, though I do very much enjoy the latter.
I have no expectations for a player base at large but when I join a small group (like a pack) I feel more responsibility and ownership, and I prefer it if others do as well instead of just being there to partake. We all have times like that but it gets old if one person has to carry things all the time, you know?
As was said elsewhere, there's always willing participants but very few people willing and capable of taking on the work and responsibility involved!
I think what is out there is dependent on who is willing and able to work, and what they are interested in, not a lack of interest in general.
I am working of a Fading Suns game for someday but it will be awhile. I bet there are other games that are being worked on too! Ask around, if you have the time/inclination you might be able to help!
Maybe the difference is "really wanting to participate" (which I now read as "happy to be entertained and to be involved") vs. "wanting/capable to put in the work to keep things dynamic and active." They're two very different things. I think most people really want to participate. The number of people willing to put in the real work involved are very few.
These days I'm always happy to participate but leery of joining up with a group where there is not at least 1 other person who's willing to put in the work OOCly.
@Thenomain said:
Online, this is tied up into the question of the power level or levels of the game, IMO. That is a discussion I haven't seen often and never at length. So to me, the question is: Are players losing out in your system if they can't participate at the level of the rest of the group?
I think this policy on a MUSH has the unintended consequences of doing just that, though from several different ways.
When you have full XP transfer, it means that very soon you're likely to have a very min/maxed playerbase (this will depend on the size/how much turnover of players you have though). The people who have been around for 6 months or whatever the catchup is, and then the newbies--who are crippled not only by the fact of being newbies but also then by the power differential. There are ways to deal with that (social RP, rewarding top of the heap people who run things for lowbies, leadership requirements, ect) that are great on paper, but I'm not sure how they truly work out long term.
I also think that coming in to a new sphere with a new PC at max XP seems to be problematic for the players that do that as well, especially if they're unconnected. By stats there can be an expectation of them being useful/essential/easily incorporated but that's not always the case either. And then if you have an XP system like TR you have no flexibility to amend things unless you respec.
I think the expectation that the only way to have fun/be effective is to never fail has been detrimental to other games. (I've seen this elsewhere, where folks will not get out and do anything because "well, I only have a dice pool of 8, I can't do anything.") I do think that there's something lost when you can be effectively isolated from ever feeling that noobish level of PC again.
I have noticed people taking more stupid risks (outside of ICness) and behaving in ways they probably would not otherwise, because they know that a PC loss isn't a loss, they can just bounce right back into a sphere at the same level as before.
And after a time staff often must focus on the high enders, because they're the the most difficult to challenge. Or conversely, they might be ignored because they don't know how.
All of these things can be addressed, but it's a lot of work. I don't know that for me these issues are outweighed by the advantages of allowing everyone to rollover full XP at will.
By XP Rollover I mean the player's ability to apply the XP from another one of their PCs to a new one. Maybe transfer is a better term.
In particular after seeing it in practice for awhile I'm pretty sure I am 100 percent dead set against 100 percent XP rollover/transfer in any circumstance.
Sorry @Thenomain, I'm still occasionally inattentive to how this new site works. I edited my post above, will comment below to reflect some of my thoughts more fully.
I am in a very slow process of developing a non-WoD game (very slow, may not happen, this is like a year+ out) but it's gotten me thinking about it. Since XP rollover from oldPC to newPC seems to be something of a par for the course expectation these days.
Ooops! I always forget that the new format means that no matter what you're looking at, the post at the bottom of the screen stays to it's original purpose!
Anyway.
I think that XP rollover, especially full XP rollover, is something that has significant negative impacts on a game for several different (and probably unintended) reasons. I understand that the purpose of it was to "lessen the blow" for losing a PC, but I'm wondering if others feel similarly that it doesn't really do that and creates even more problems over time.
I think I support XP rollover for PCs that are killed off when that was not the player's original intent.
In all other cases after seeing some of the ramifications on TR, I think I'd be leery of allowing it otherwise.
I lucked out too, in that all four of my kids are extremely mellow in personality. No one was particularly difficult. No one has been a picky eater. I wish I could take credit for this, but I am like the biggest fucking slacker parent ever. Meanwhile, friends of mine who pretty much were so hard core healthy eater types who only pull slightly short of the "and I grew the organic free range wheat myself and ground it on my fair trade humanely harvested rocks to make my own flour to make this from scratch sugar free local-sourced cracker that my kid just ate" type of people have the pickiest kid I've ever met. It's not his fault, he's been exposed to a lot but he will actually gag and hurl at most textures. Life sucks sometimes.
Though the type of folks that I just mentioned above also can't handle the fact that I just fed my kid a goldfish cracker and contaminated the playground with it then too bad for you, bitches!
I have a great deal of tolerance for age appropriate behaviors (I am not going to give a mom a dirty look when she has to carry her toddler kicking and screaming out of Target and leave her shopping cart behind), but as much as I try to not speak ill of other parents (because every single "Well I will NEVER X" thing I said has come back to bite me in the ass during parenthood), I'm a pretty grumpy old lady about stuff like that.
You know, if I could still manage to return both my shopping carts to the cart return thing while juggling noob twins and a year and a half year old, fuck you lady, you don't need to leave your cart in the middle of two parking spaces with one smiling, happy child.
I'm wincing about what I'm in store for now that my olders are edging into their teen years. I said a lot of "well I never would" statements about teens when I was an all knowing mom of sweet under-5s. It's fun to get zOMG WTF looks from first-timers when I'm out with the baby now though. He is often in mismatched socks, rarely wears a hat, and I have indeed picked up his teether that he threw on the ground and handed it right back to him.