Best posts made by Miss Demeanor

holds up a boombox that only plays Careless Whisper

@faraday Except nobody is claiming that any ONE person or character is 'domineering' a scene. Its an ATTITUDE, one that is a CHOICE made by those players for their characters to continue displaying. And frankly, I think it IS a little WrongFun when said attitudes are coming from a large number of the characters that are holding positions of power and/or authority and/or are major plot disseminators. That's FORCING people to deal with this attitude if they want to get anywhere or do anything.

Your own example: This isn't 'there's nothing but bar scenes, OMG'. This is 'Fuck, I can't do anything BUT bar scenes with out having to deal with Dick, Asshole, or Shitheel!'. When someone places themselves in a position of authority or power or even just PLOT... it no longer becomes JUST about their fun. They have a responsibility to ensure that others can still get their piece of the pie, too. That slice of pie shouldn't have to come with a cold topping of snark-filled shit, EVERY TIME.

Not every 'bad guy' or 'antagonist' has to be an asshole 100% of the time. Hell, most of the best ones, you don't even realize ARE the antagonist until pivotal moments. Yes, I realize this game deals with teens and everyone likes to equate that to holyfuck hormonal out of control kids. Not all teens are like that. And these aren't even true TEENS. They're adults, by their own cultures standards. These are people that would be assigned jobs, work them, would have responsbilities and duties beyond what most young adults today would have to deal with. Because they've been taught from BIRTH, that its not just about their life, its about the COLONY'S life. And yeah, they're criminals. But when spraypainting a sign or stealing a ration or slandering an elder publicly are all considered capital crimes? That's a pretty low bar for 'criminal'. So this 'oh but Jackoff Joe have to be an utter and complete dick ALL THE TIME because its my character's attitude' schtick? Smells pretty funky after you run into it the sixth time in a row.

Hey guys? Maybe move the discussion to a thread not about dead celebrities, please?

@Seraphim73 Perception may well be the biggest problem that happened on The 100. Because while you're saying that yes this happened but you fixed it... you're neglecting to mention that it happened for months and only got fixed after people had left the game and this thread had started getting snippy about how you two were handling the game. Having individual people approach you and voice concerns did nothing. You and @GirlCalledBlu were so wrapped up in your characters and your fun (perceived), that actually staffing the game fell into last place on the 'to do' list. People that you were warned about being troublesome weren't 'watched' as you claimed. They were neglected until they became such a huge problem that you had to do something. This wasn't a case of 'it came up and was handled within a week or so'. It was a case of 'it came up and was willfully ignored for months before it became such a huge problem that it drove a lot of people from the game before it was addressed'. By the time it got to the Grounders being open for play, I already had a foot out the door because of unresolved worries and concerns that you and @GirlCalledBlu claimed to be 'watching' and mostly just seemed to handwave off in favor of playing your PC's. And yeah, maybe Grey got toned down later, but it was MUCH later as it was still being talked about after I'd left the game.

The problem I see here is that you and your wife, while lovely people, are more invested in your own fun than you are in actually running the game. Which, as mentioned previously, is fine with a sandbox where everyone involved has largely agreed to what you want to do anyways. But on a public game that's open to everyone and anyone, that means that you quickly become the 'absentee landlord' in your own game. The impression that I personally got anytime I spoke to you or @GirlCalledBlu was that of trying to speak to someone playing a video game. Which is to say that you were distracted, uninterested, and just wanted me to go away so said whatever you had to to make that happen so you could get back to your fun. On the few occasions where either of you would poll players about something, the questions were pretty clearly worded to direct people towards a desired answer. As in, you had the answer that you wanted, and the question was worded to point people directly at the answer you desired. And no, polling a handful of players regarding what standards and practices staff should adhere to? Not at all what people are asking for here. They're saying you need someone else that's on the same level as you and your wife (ie. another staffer) that can be the balancing force for you.

Going to a player as staff on your staffbit and asking if they personally would have a problem with you doing something as a player that could well affect the game at large? Generally not the best way to get a real answer. All that shows me is that you have no sense of separation between staff and player. And yes, that is CRITICAL if you're going to play on a game you staff. If you cannot separate what happens to your characters as a player, and your authority as staff? That is a HUGE problem. You cannot blur those lines. Ever. That @GirlCalledBlu acknowledges having difficulty separating the two while being one of the only two staffers (the other of whom is her husband) on a game is truly worrisome. That neither of you see that as a problem is seriously worrisome.

I really do wish you both the best and I hope your sandbox 5W game is successful for you both. But I personally will never play on a game where the two of you staff until I have concrete evidence that the problems I saw on The 100, and here, are no longer an issue. Maybe its just perception, but what I perceived was utter ignoring of basic staff etiquette.

@Auspice Yeah, following the 'I apologize' was three paragraphs of 'gee, I didn't realize... only I did and purposely shut off empathy for them, and I acknowledge that they saw things differently than me'... in other words, everything after the 'I apologize' was worded in a way that completely neutralized any actual apology. He continued to imply that it was someone else's fault for taking what he was doing the wrong way, rather than any wrong-doing on his own part.

And yes, I have. You know what I did? Found them a few months later and said 'I'm sorry that I ditched you back then. It was a dick move.' I didn't spend three paragraphs talking about how I didn't realize what I was doing... only I really did and took deliberate steps to not care about the hurt I was causing and now I regret doing it because they took it badly.

Here, since we're quoting him...

I realize due to OOC issues, angry pages, etc, that it wasn't JUST a game for you. (Implication that being upset with him means the other person was taking it unreasonably far.)

going through whatever kinds of shit that led you to get triggered. (There's no ownership there. He takes no responsibility for his own actions.)

For whatever reason the hurt existed, (Same as above. No ownership, just some ephemeral 'whatever reason'.)

but it doesn't matter how justified the hurt on your end was (Do I even really need to explain this? Its completely downplaying the other person's feelings in favor of his... redemption? Growth? Regret?)

I regret that my character choosing X or Y set another living human being into that kind of headspace (He is responsible for his character. He made those choices, not his character. He's shifting blame from himself as a player to his character, like it was operating independently of him.)

I went "fuck their moody shit" and turned off the empathy (Meaning, he had full understanding, where a paragraph ago, he claimed to not understand 'back then' what was happening. Can't keep your story straight? Sounds like someone is lying.)

it might be one of the most soul-rewarding experiences I'm taking away from it. (Apologies shouldn't be about him and how he feels, but rather about making the other person feel better for his previous treatment. Which again, suggests less sincerity and more just wanting to make himself feel better.)

Bolded the parts that particularly stuck out in those statements. Everything put together shows the sort of lackluster, couched non-apology that is made to clear one's own conscience or garner sympathy/kudos from others rather than to actually make things better between him and the people he wronged.

tldr; If the apology is more about someone else taking things badly and how much better you feel about it all? Not a real apology.

IF I FITS. I SITS.

Have you... ever played on a MU* that uses TT books for their rules? You still need to have the core books for whatever you're playing. Its not like the books are loaded wholesale into the MU*, I'm not even sure if that would be possible. But here, example time!

I want to play on a D&D MU*. Without having the D&D books, I could technically make a character, but I wouldn't know what the Feats I'd picked gave me mechanically, I wouldn't know what skills are class or cross-class, I wouldn't know how many dice to roll for my Lightning Bolt, so on and so forth.

See how that works?

As to the other part... since you didn't personally make the character that someone else put the time and effort into creating, I will call bullshit. You provided the family name and some potential background information to use in the effort they make to create the character. The character is still all them, however, since they are the ones that make it, flesh it out, and bring it to life. Trying to claim that you are personally responsible for each and every character created is ego on a scale equatable to megalomania.

@Sunny Uhhhhhhhh, because its NOT just me personally? Have you... been paying any attention at all or do you just pop up now and then to troll the thread for giggles?

@GamerNGeek said:

So we had a forum that worked for everyone, and replaced it with one that works for a number less than everyone, and makes everyone go through extra steps, and changed things we were familiar with because....?

Sometimes leaving things that work alone is the better answer.

You know, at first I was miffed over the sudden changes and occasional issue. But then I thought about it and realized that the only time I get an error or Bad Gateway is likely when one of the Admin's is doing something with the forum itself. Tweaking the new setup or the like. Everything else is really no different than setting up a new MUSH client the first time you use it. So chill, man. The new setup is no worse than the old one, people were having issues with the old one as well, so it didn't acutally 'work for everyone'. I know new is scary and all, but don't jump straight to the arm-flailing doom-saying. Chill out, follow the whole TWO steps mentioned, and give them some time to see how it pans out.

I don't have any inherent problem with a weird, obnoxious, or creepy character on a game. They actually tend to be some of the more interesting folk you can interact with, provided you can retain a level of detachment from your own character. Stuff will happen around those characters. It won't always be good things, but it will be interesting and can be fun! I would much rather see a moratorium on 'super social butterflies that host endless inane parties that provide little to no use beyond granting the player extra xp for "running a scene" so they can then buy stats that make no logical sense for the character to have in the first place' than on the Rick Sanchez's and Ramsay Bolton's. But those types of characters tend to be small in number in the first place. You don't get Ramsay Bolton, you get Joffrey Baratheon. You don't get Rick Sanchez, you get Jerry. A Ramsay Bolton character will create drama in a GOOD way, with player consent and understanding of a farther reaching goal (ie. the player knows that in the end he will lose and die horribly, but that he is there to provoke certain outcomes or promote certain types of character growth). A Joffrey Baratheon will fling his shit everywhere and scream at the top of his lungs how unfair everything is. Both characters are monsters and horrifying on multiple levels. One is being portrayed by a player that knows what they are doing, understands what their part is, and while bad things will happen? They will happen off-screen. The other is being portrayed by a whiny brat player that can't understand why the world isn't revolving around them and thinking that the humiliation of others is the height of hilarity. They will publicize their horrors.

And that is really the difference. I don't think there's really any bad character types beyond maybe having too many of a certain type. There's just either good or shitty players behind them.

Also, yes, I put Rick Sanchez in there. He's an objectively terrible human being that is utterly horrifying to his family... and yet people love the shit out of him. Because he plays well. He does things in a manner that appeals to us as players (or viewers).

I've found that as I've gotten older, physical appearance has become less important. Not that I don't have my preferences (I do), but I would much rather date someone that I can actually enjoy spending time with over someone that's a total hardbody but that makes me want to smother them with a pillow every third word.

Also, YES. Dear God yes. Please stop telling me that I need to stop drinking so much coffee while you shove your second Big Mac into your mouth. Or that I need to eat more than two meals a day when that keeps me perfectly content. I don't like breakfast, sue me. On the rare occasion I actually eat that early, I tend to be too full for lunch. So what, that's just how my body works, leave me alone.

@Thenomain said in Fate's Harvest BETA Live (Full Open Soon):

@Miss-Demeanor

I would say that we kept her balanced on Haunted Memories in Changeling since we had a lot to do and intelligent players, but I see that as the exception.

edit: Once when she was 'elected' Queen of Autumn, about a third of the active Freehold walked out on her Crowning. Okay, about a third of the Freehold walked out on everyone's Crowning. It's very hard to be a leader when a majority of your flock willfully ignore you. I don't think any of us sabotaged her Season rule, though. None of us went that far. I don't think any, or certainly not many, of us wanted to sabotage the game to spite anyone else. I may not have agreed with or sometimes didn't like a bunch of you, but I respected the effort everyone put in. I think we all did, when the smoke cleared.

If you think she was balanced in Changeling, you neglected to notice the 900+xp she managed to accrue over the course of about 6 months by blatantly abusing the prp system. You failed to notice how she completely took over Autumn, driving out anyone she didn't want there (and some people she DID but who finally got wise to her shit). You failed to notice that the sphere hit one of its lowest points in activity when she took 'office' because literally nobody wanted to deal with her. Dude. She drove away Baron. That guy was chill personified. She still managed to chase him off with her batshit crazy. Staff still did nothing. To my recollection, she wasn't even ever actually banned from HM's Changeling sphere, she just stopped playing because she'd sucked it dry and there was nobody left for her to fuck over in pursuit of her own fun.

@bored Belatedly, there are least three threads that I've seen so far in which @Auspice is given shit for the same post by the same people. Three threads. Only one of which is actually in the Hog Pit. For a post that wasn't even inflammatory or accusatory of anyone, that is absolutely excessive. I would absolutely call that a 'dogpile' considering its talked about in the thread the post was made in, then another thread is made in the Hog Pit to talk about it more, then its brought up here as well. None of the talk has been at all constructive about how else Auspice might have gone about it. How else she might have phrased it to not sound the way it did. Nothing. Nothing at all constructive about it. Not even a little. Instead there were more and more calls for her to be taken down as a mod for being unfit, and over something that would earn little more than a raised brow or slap on the wrist had it happened on a game rather than this forum. I would absolutely call that excessive and unnecessary. I find it simultaneously amusing and a bit horrifying that the three mods for a forum known for its reputation towards shit-flinging are being held to a higher standard than any staffer on any game anywhere.

@thebird I believe this is what you're looking for, good sir.

I'll admit it. I bucked and railed against making a character on Eldritch. Not because of the people, but simply because there are a few pretty big things about GMC that I just don't care for. However, I will now publicly eat my serving of crow. My friends finally pushed and nudged and poked me into making a character. And it wasn't even the character I initially wanted to play. I wanted to play a Demon, but I missed the slot openings. Instead, I now play a stigmatic... and I'm having a BLAST. The cgen was by far the easiest I have ever gone through. Code was simple, clean, and intuitive (thank you Theno!). The staff were amazingly helpful (thank you Deviant and Eerie!). Even the players jumped in to help with suggestions and answers when they could. I'm only just starting, obviously, but this game has the potential to be great. Not because there's a ton of people, or a slew of splats.. but just because its easygoing, simple, and welcoming. I had RP the same night I was approved and the scene was great. Fun, engaging, and ending with everyone feeling good about how it progressed. I don't think I could get a better first day on a game.

And God forbid you do a game where people can either inhabit planets, space stations, or ships. Now you have to flesh out all three. And I cannot stress enough how important fleshing out ships are for a sci-fi game. You can't just go 'here is a basic starship, go RP'. What is 'basic'? How big is it? How many crew does it require? What sort of weaponry does it have equipped, if any? Does it use teleporters or drop ships or shuttles for getting from orbit to planet? Can you safely land it on a planet? Does it have hyperdrive? What about warp? Can it 'space jump'? If so, do any of those parts need regular replacing, like a battery? If yes, where do they come from? This isn't stuff you can just leave for later, and expect players to be cool with it. This is how most folk will potentially live or make their living. They need to know if they'll have to spend time and/or resources on keeping the ship running or if it just runs until damaged from an outside source. They need to know what types of ships are available. Is it a battle ship? A smuggler's ship? Are there freighter ships? This isn't stuff to just handwave.

Having a UTI during my period, while working a full-time customer service job that puts me in constant contact with selfish, entitled fucks that can't grasp the service they're bitching about is a privilege, not a right. I have never wanted @HelloRaptor's machine to stab people in the face through the Internet this much.

@Derp said:

@Miss-Demeanor said:

@Ganymede It was. And if that's all it was used for, I wouldn't care. But its not. It gets applied to player against player social interactions as well. And that's where I draw my line.

See, I think it should be applied to PvP situations. It's a neutral way to resolve a social situation that doesn't end in 'nuh uh because I said so, my person would never do that' which gets applied to just about every social roll ever. Which is lame as fuck.

I wouldn't mind tweaking the system a little bit right now, though. As it stands, everyone just assumes that everyone is hostile to everyone and like some sort of dark magic, you can't roll. There should be intervals between there that are missing. 'Uneasy' and 'Unfriendly' are the ones that I would add in, personally. Hostile would be -strictly- for active hostility, in the form of blows are being thrown, or something like that. Some very real, clear and present danger outside of 'ugh, what a dick'. Because dicks can still get people to do what they want, and people work with people they don't like after some convincing that it's the best way to go about things.

And the first time someone wants me to sit around for two hours while they figure out if their PC can sway mine? My reaction is this. And since we're on the subject... hostile is a lot more than 'I will punch you if you speak to me'. There's plenty of hostile people in the world that never lift a hand towards a person. So no, I don't think Hostile is JUST meant to cover 'ready to inflict physical violence'.