MU Soapbox

Ominous

Farewell, Smol Birb. You flew too close to the sun.

If the sun was a burning ball of headaches.

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Ominous

@jinshei

Probably a ghost.

Ominous

@jennkryst said in Rinel banned:

Edit: it's possible something is messed up on my end, I can't check edit history on unlocked threads, either.

I think the feature has been turned off for a little while now.

Ominous

@aria said in Good or New Movies Review:

As I said else-thread, I think that this would have been better served with a long-form medium like a series. At the very least, a trilogy would be preferable for pretty much exactly these reasons, as well as allowing more time for what I felt were a few underdeveloped characters and relationships.

The problem with a trilogy is that I don't think there is such a natural stopping as the one I discussed in the spoiler for a second movie to stop at. I guess maybe "The sleeper has awakened" scene? I'm only vaguely remembering the order of things after the battle, so that might be too early or late for a good stopping point.

Ominous

@packrat

I reviewed the Dune movie in this thread: https://musoapbox.net/topic/221/good-or-new-movies-review/1776 and part of meaning in saying it showed promise in the beginning was the clever ways in which the movie was teaching the audience about the world without heavy exposition. There was a lot of show don't tell. There was David Attenborough giving a lesson on Dune. There was the lesson about spice that Paul watched. Use the voice to make me give you a glass of water. The shield scene was flubbed, though, as they never explain how the shields work, only showing that they exist and blue means you're protected and red means you're screwed.

I don't think they need a miniseries, Though, Sci-Fi Channel did that in the early 00's, but they needed to stop the movie earlier in the book than they did, so they would have more time to world build and develope the characters.

Ominous

@greenflashlight

It does not bother me if you gang up to write words at me, so feel free. A back and forth argument over something minor is just a good a way to pass a lazy Saturday afternoon before I head off to a potluck as any other. I was happy to leave the thread with one biting comment in passing that answered the question of why there wasn't a thread about Gloomhaven, or at least why I hadn't started a thread on Gloomhaven. However, if everyone wants to derail the thread with this discussion, I have 3 hours to waste before I start cooking. My distaste for the game has been stated and suggestions for alternatives made. I have nothing more to write about Gloomhaven, unless someone has a specific question for me about it.

Ominous

@sunny said in How is there not a Gloomhaven thread here?:

this is not the Hogpit and your hostility is inappropriate.

I am aware. These are my measured replies to Gloomhaven. If this was the Hogpit, I would be considerably more expressive of my feelings on the game.

Ominous

@arkandel said in How is there not a Gloomhaven thread here?:

But in a thread dedicated to finding interest in a specific game it seems a bit counter-productive to pop up and go "well, I don't like it!".

Again, constructive doesn't mean cheerleading. There is no rule that says that all posts in a thread must be supportive of the thing being discussed. I am not supportive of it, and I am aggressively not, because I feel strongly negative about the game. I hope it is counterproductive to spreading interest in Gloomhaven. I hope the product fails. That's my goal. I do not like the product or segments of it's fanbase. I have not name called anyone, I have not insulted or demeaned the games creators, and I have not I have not villified or insulted anyone posting here who likes it. In fact, I have supported one group's enjoyment of it, even if I would rather they play something else.

I have expressed the opinion that an alternative product is superior. In reply, it was pointed out that my suggestion is both expensive and rules intensive, so I outlined numerous similar products that are inexpensive and/or rules lite and linked to websites listing even more options.

Ominous

@sunny

No. It's a thread for discussing our thoughts about Gloomhaven. These are my thoughts. It is an expensive, inferior product that can be replaced by other products that do what it does better. Constructive does not mean being a cheerleader. What you object to is the tone your mind's ear is hearing as you read what I wrote, and sadly I can't fix that.

If it works for @cobalt and her group, great. I'm glad they're having fun. It doesn't change my opinion on the game, and my opinion certainly won't change hers. If she looks at some of the things I linked and finds a new game to play that her group enjoys, great. If she doesn't, oh well.

Ominous

DUNE

So I don't do movies much. As I have stated previously on the forum, I find most movies post-2000-ish to be crap. I really don't like movie theaters, and prefer the comforts of watching a movie at home on the rare times that I will watch a movie. So it takes a lot to get me to watch a new movie, in a movie theater, on the day of its release.

I give it a 3 out of 5, or a 2 out of 5 if they never make Part 2. They better make that Part 2, as I would give the 1984 Dune a 2 out of 5 as well, and it would be a pretty terrible if, after 37 years, they can only match it. Which is all a shame, because it had the potential to be a 5 out of 5. The acting, soundtrack, and CGI are all superb. It opens really well, and I was all aboard to love this movie.

The biggest issue is they rush things. They've already decided to split the novel into multiple movies to do it justice, so why the rush? And I got the feeling as I was leaving the theater that I'm not alone in that assessment, as a bunch of my fellow audience members were saying things that indicated that they were completely lost and confused about what they just saw.

Anyways that's all I have to say that isn't spoilery.

click to show

There is a natural stopping point for the first movie, if you're going to split the book. How does one fuck that up? How does one get to the end of the battle that upends everything, the perfect place to stop things and leave everyone breathless and on a cliffhanger and they go "Naaaah, let's drag this out for another hour and have a bunch of slow story-heavy scenes that will drain the pacing and would be better served as early scenes in a second movie"? How does one come to the conclusion that that's a good idea?

You have Lady Jessica and Paul escape from the three stooges and shelter in a tent. You have the scene with Leto gassing the room. You go back to Jessica and Paul getting out of the tent and starting their journey, playing up the 'They survived and are continuing their adventure onwards' vibe, have some heroic-ish music and shots of them moving through the desert, maybe some pans of the desert to show the adventure is just beginning, yadda yadda. Then you cut back to the gassed room with the hazmat suit guys entering and the reveal that BOOM the Baron isn't dead, Motherfuckers! Roll credits.

HOW DOES ONE FUCK THAT UP!?

Then with all the time they would have saved by not having an hour of stuff that should be in the second movie, they could have used it to spend more time focusing on the character building and world building. At no point do they explain how shields work. Hopefully you are able to figure it out from watching, but I doubt it, because it's a little vague as to why some things get through a shield and other things don't, as the things getting through seem to be moving at the same speed as things not getting through.

Whose the dude with the diamond on his forehead? Turns out he's really important, but you wouldn't have guessed that from all of the two scenes he is mentioned or shows up in before the moment he becomes super fucking important. Who are mentats and how do they work? You get one scene of eyes turned up into a skull to convey that they are human calculators and, if you don't spot the fact that he and the Harkonnen mentat both have the same taste in lipstick and turning their eyes up into their skull, you won't know that they're both from the same order.

Wait, Jessica is a concubine? We only get that revealed by a passing comment of "I should have married you" by Leto just before the attack and a comment by the Baron while he is gloating over Leto, which could leave an uninformed viewer thinking that the Baron is just slandering her by calling her a "concubine" like calling someone a "whore." Maybe we should have dived into that a bit beforehand to establish the social order a little more and explain that concubines are a thing.

Speaking of poor Jessica, I commend her actress for a good job of conveying the emotions the character is going through, but the fucking Director decided that all those emotions should be of a hysterical woman who appears to be just shy of completely losing it. Not what I would expect of a disciplined Bene Gesserit who can command the minds of the weak. How about some scenes showing how badass, awesome, and/or loving she can be to offset all of her simpering and hand trembling?

Then there's the Baron. They got Stellan Skarsgård, who does a phenomenal job, and they have a really great leitmotif for him. He just oozes villainy. So how about a little more screen time showing off him being a villain, rather than just talking and plotting and sounding menacing? In the 1984 Dune, the Baron in his first scene murders a random servant for the lulz while raping him. That's a bit much, but that at least tells you that there is a pretty high bar for awfulness that you can safely limbo under in portraying how brutal he is.

Ominous

@sunny

My first two comments were aggressive, because I am sick of the asshole Gloomhaven fanboys I have had to deal with, and I would burn all copies of it in a giant bonfire that would shame the wildfires of California and some smaller volcanoes, if I could, just to spite the fuckers.

The third comment was sincere and a suggestion for something that might work for @Cobalt's group, if she's interested. If not, that's fine too.

Ominous

@carma said in Balancing wizards and warriors:

Here's an idea for the Aes Sedai - make their magic work off intent. So if they're not doing something to directly harm someone, but in the mind of the caster, the intended outcome is to eventually cause harm to someone, it backfires and harms the caster instead.

Yeah, that's one I forgot.

Magic Has Standards of Conduct method - Magic is tied to the spiritual realm and using it requires you to abide by certain rules, beliefs, what have you. For example, using magic to kill is wrong, and, if you do it, you get to do it once, then you lose your magic. Or maybe now you can only use dark magic which can only do harmful destructive things. Even if you try to do good with dark magic, it warps and perverts your intention to still cause harm

Ominous

@cobalt said in How is there not a Gloomhaven thread here?:

@ominous Ok? That's you. My partner has terrible ADHD and, honestly, probably dyslexia. I tried to get him into playing D&D but he finds that there is too much reading for his comfort involved. He was, however, very enthusiastic about Gloomhaven. He loves it.

Hey that's great! I'm glad you found something that works for you.

Might I recommend Free Kriegsspiel. No rules to read, no complicated mechanics, just a group, whatever rules they come up with, some dice for any needed randomized resolution, maybe a table or two to refer to, and an umpire: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2500148/ancient-roleplaying-or-free-kriegsspiel-revolution.

Ominous

Ars Magica method: Mages are the main characters and are overpowered compared to everyone else. Martial characters are trusted sidekicks. Don't worry about balance.

Classless method: Why can't martial characters also dabble in magic and vice versa?

Magic Item method: Magic can only be cast through magic items with each magical item carrying only one spell that it can cast, so they're more like special abilities that anyone can get. See Errant RPG's use of grimoires.

Magic Is Draining method: Magic spells cost magic points to cast (say 1 to 5 out of 10 to 20 total points a character could have). Magic points recover very slowly (say 1 point per day). When you cast a spell, you better mean it.

Magic Is Hard method: It takes a long time to learn how to cast any given spell, so the only people who know more than X are old. X being 2 or 5 or whatever works.

Magic Is Dangerous method: Mages risk flubbing their spell and Bad Things Happen (TM) when they roll poorly. See Warhammer Fantasy RPG, a lot of OSR retroclones (Dungeon Crawl Classics comes to mind), and a slew of other pen & paper RPGs.

Magic Is Evil method: Magic corrupts you when you use it. Only evil people cast it or casting too much risks you becoming an evil NPC or something like that. See Symbaroum.

Magic Is Weak method: Magic does very minor cantrip-like things only.

Magic Is Chaos method: When you cast a spell, you're not quite sure what's going to happen. More dangerous than Magic Is Dangerous, in that with MID, when you do things right, the results are always the same. With this method, there are no standard results, so who the fuck knows whether that flame spell you're casting will light a candle, light a fireplace, light a fireball, or light the whole city?

Magic Is Inhuman method: Is yous an elf or dragon in a human-only PCs game? No? No magics for you!

Magic Is Slow method: All magic is ritual magic - brewing potions, crafting magic items, performing long rituals, etc. No casting a fireball in the heat of battle. If you want to kill someone, it will be quicker and easier just to stab them than it is to spend the three days casting "Slay That Dude" after collecting all the requisite ingredients, not to mention having to learn That Dude's true name.

Ominous

@cobalt said in How is there not a Gloomhaven thread here?:

I mean ... Considering how many d&d products are there... Spending $100-160 once a d&d-esque boardgame that has way less in the way of rules you have to remember is probably not a waste.

Here's the free Goblin Laws of Gaming (GLOG) by Goblin Punch's Arnold K. It's rules are 10 pages long. Character classes are not included as OSR tends to be DIY in its orientation: http://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-glog.html

Here's the free updated and what many people consider to be the definitive version of the GLOG, called Rat on a Stick, by Skerples of Coins and Scrolls. The base rules are 13 pages; though, there are more pages for fluff and for character classes: https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2018/01/osr-glog-based-homebrew-v01-rat-on.html

Swords & Wizardry for $1.00: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/86546/Swords-and-Wizardry-Complete-Rule-Book

Labyrinth Lord for free: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/64331/Labyrinth-Lord-Revised-Edition-noart-version

Good ol' OSRIC, which arguably started the OSR, also free: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/111392/OSRIC-Pocket-SRD-PDF

Basic Fantasy RPG, which was my gateway to the OSR, as I needed a free D&D to run suddenly for some friends who wanted to know what D&D was about when I didn't have any of my books. Also free: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/140455/Basic-Fantasy-RPG-3rd-Edition

Delving Deeper, yet again free: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/112432/Delving-Deeper-Ref-Rules-v2-The-Adventurers-Handbook
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/112433/Delving-Deeper-Ref-Rules-v2-The-Referees-Guide
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/112434/Delving-Deeper-Ref-Rules-v2-The-Monster--Treasure-Reference

Lamentations of the Flame Princess for people who like their RPGs to cost $0 and be as edgy as possible: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/115059/LotFP-Rules--Magic-Free-Version

And on and on it goes here: https://www.tenkarstavern.com/p/f.html (46 different free or close to free retroclones listed)

And here are some of the same ones mentioned as well as ones that aren't free but are awesome: http://taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com/dd-retroclones.html (217 different retroclones of various expense sorted by which edition or which retroclone they are derived from)

Also, I like Knave for $2.99, and Errant, which is like $30.00 but is being made by a trans woman. I don't think either is listed on those two sites, so they get a shout-out here.

So, yes, with all these free, cheap, and not cheap but awesomely designed D&D retroclones, it is a waste to spend $100-$160 on a board game that doesn't come with the infinite agency that pen & paper has. I play board games to play board games, not to play D&D or D&D-lite. I have plenty of free ways to do that if I want that.

Ominous

Also, double post to present the best version of Commander Shepard ever: https://youtu.be/2_rY6gn7GNM

Ominous

@ganymede

I used to be quite impressed with your resume, but now I am reconsidering whether you should have the privilege of touching lemons. Are you dating the Bill of Rights? How many judge's gavels have you stolen? Has any of your clients gone to jail town?

Ominous

@aria

"If so, you can act entitled for money."

Never has a more succinct summary of Americans and our legal system been made.

Ominous

@astrid said in How is there not a Gloomhaven thread here?:

Like how?

Because D&D exists and an expensive ass board game that does D&D worse than D&D is a waste of money.

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