Posts made by Ortallus

@karmageddon said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I've been on the National Do Not Call Registry since 2004. As of 8/01/2016, the maximum fine is $40,000 USD per call.

Three days ago, someone called me claiming to be from a certain bank where I don't have an account. I informed him I was on the registry. I told him to remove me from his list. I informed him of the fine. I warned him that if he called me again, I would report him to the FCC.

He called again about 25 minutes ago. I told him, "I told you the other day that I was on the Do Not Call Registry. I told you to remove me from your list. I am now reporting you to the FCC."

He immediately hung up.

I immediately reported both calls to the FCC. I'm certain he's made more than two such calls. I'm also certain he will be unable to pay the fines for all those calls.

So even though I'm kinda peeved, I feel good for reporting him.

A while back I got some spam that was -very- well created trying to get my information for my Apple Store account.

I uh.. don't have an Apple Store account.

So I did all the things, reported to the FBI cybercrime website, reported to Apple, got a thank you email from the latter. Pretty gratifying.

Okay, so here's my thoughts:

If you want to encourage proactive players:

1. Be a proactive staffer. Give them something to work with.

2. Reward them. Flat out reward them. If you're a BG requiring MUSH, then every, say, 3-5 plots that someone runs, try to skim their background for a plot hook, and run a scene for them based on that. It'll not only reward them for running plots, it'll reward them for having to write a background.

3. Involve them. Let players interact with the world. I know this has been said before, by myself and others, but it's a big deal. It's a rewards of a delayed nature, but give a list of potential plots that players could run (Thus taking the onus off of staff) but that affects the meta-plot.

4. If the player regularly runs stuff, work out a token system of some sort for buildings. Players love owning shops, houses, etc. Every 5 plots run = token good for 1 room. (Vary numbers to your needs)

5. Again, this has been stated, but: Keep on top of jobs/rewards. Players and ST alike are a lot more likely to jump at the chance for a plot if they're not waiting for the rewards from the plot they ran 3 weeks ago. 72 hour turnaround should be most people's goal. If you're not meeting this, get more staff. (Hint: Those proactive players that are running stuff might also be willing to handle the occasional job -so long as they're getting attention from higher ups in the form of aforementioned tokens and custom plots)

tl;dr: If you want to 'encourage proactive players'... reward them!! Make it worth their while.

I once made a sumo character, that I spent about 2 days researching sumo culture, training, diet and various other things for. Gave me a lot of insight on how that character would be have.

@arkandel said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

But I think it's a completely separate issue than the one discussed here. Maybe someone should make a thread called "proactive staff".

This. So much this. I sort of feel like if there's not some meta-plot going on, that I'm probably going to get bored.

I think @Auspice MIGHT agree with me when I say that a sort of ideal situation is where there's an ongoing meta-plot, wherein PrPs can be run in tandem, possibly associated with, and ultimately affecting said meta-plot.

IE:

The goblin king is moving to siege the city. He's got massive armies at his command. Players could run various plots to thwart the goblin king. Attacking supply lines, harrying pickets, scouting the numbers, hit and run assaults, ambushing enemy scouts... the list really goes on, and is limited only by the creativity of the players.

Now, the end result is that the more players get involved, and come up with ideas, and submit logs, the easier the 'final showdown' is with the Goblin King.

And that brings me to what will be my next separate post later, but that is returning to the original topic.

@roz said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@faraday I think the disagreement here is whether something that's an OOC scheduled scene means that it's an IC event. Which I don't think it has to be. For me, and I know for a good number of others, +event is just an OOC calendar. Why shouldn't an OOCly scheduled event go on it even if it's not something that's ICly scheduled? Do we just need to change it to +calendar or something?

I think what +event is used for varies greatly from place to place. Some places, such as Arx it seems, are large scale RP events. Other places, Like Tenebrae/Symbol of Ea, use it to announce specific time and day that a GM intends to run a play for 3-5 players of X level.

@auspice said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

...I'm about to just say look, man, I don't think I can hook him into this one. I know you want to, but you have shot down every single hook I've given you. Your character has hooks into the one-offs I've been doing with other PC. I will probably be running stuff in the area your alt is in on my alt down the road. I think we need to give up on this plot.

I feel bad doing it, but at the end of the day, he is giving me nothing to work with and he's the outlier.

This is absolutely the thing. People are often unwilling to meet you half way, and then complain they're not getting enough action.

Sometimes, it really isn't viable for a character to be in a plot. That's fine. But the player should at least say, "Hey, what about this as a hook, would that work?" and then you say, "Maybe not that exactly, but what about this?" "Hey! Sweet!"

When you're throwing gold at a garbage disposal, you lose the motivation quick.

@pyrephox said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

Didn't one of the Amber games have programmed objects that were essentially 'plots in a box' that people could take and run with without a dedicated GM? I never played there, but I remember hearing about it, and thinking just how fantastic that sounded. While there's a fair amount of front-loaded work, that work is something that people can do on their own time, and then players can just meet up whenever for it.

Tenebrae/Symbol of Ea also has a really cute "random plot generator" for PrPs. You pull a lever and it spits something out like, "<Class/Villain type> is doing <thing> and it's pissing off <group> so they've hired a group of adventurers to stop them!"

@thatguythere said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@three-eyed-crow said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@faraday
In my experience, unfortunately, you'll get more complaints and bad feelings about "exclusion" if a private event is posted publicly where everyone can see, than you will if who can see it is locked.

Not only that but most people don't like to be exclusionary but sometimes the tools point that way, for example I will occasionally run short plots. My participation limits for them is a hard max of four in a scene. that is just my limit for what I manage in a scene without it feeling stressful as hell. If you put up a +event with a max signups of four i have found two things happen, it tends to get filled quickly and then you catch a lot of why can't i be in your event too, and then on the night of the thing you are lucky if you have 3 of the 4 who signed up on. So I tend to not use +events but @mail to do the scheduling which then limits it to those I know well enough to personally ask.

It's entirely possible to put standby slots for limited signups. The first set is just the first to jump in. Standbys can still sign up for if someone doesn't show. If you're running a set for 4, allow 6 standbyes, and there's a pretty good chance you'll get 4 between the two, and the standbys generally aren't bummed if they don't get included, because they'll know it was a maybe from the start.

Also, with the standbys, it somewhat allows you to fill a party's needs, if they have them. "Oh, we've got 3 physical characters and our social didn't show. Well, here's 2 socials and a brain, and the other 3 standbys are physicals. I don't think we need any more of those."

@auspice said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

Although, I'm probably not the best person to critique PRPs, I largely don't participate in them for all the reasons listed above. If I thought that a PRP would be a meaty thing that really gave me something to sink my teeth in and RP about, though? If I knew there would be follow-up and the plot wouldn't just disappear after a random scene or two? I'd be all over that in a sec.

I've tried running these on a couple places, including having legwork available. Ironically, what I see is people wanting to get involved in one scene for RP, taking their rewards, and never attempting any amount of legwork, or even signing up for followup scenes.

If I actually try a bboard post to the effect of "this will be a series of 3-5 individually run PrPs that multiple people can participate in, @mail me for interest" I might get -1- response. So these sorts of things tend to just fizzle before they start.

@zombiegenesis said in Good TV:

@Ortallus I agree. I thought the final season of SGU was really well done.

I love that they left it off in such a way that it could be revisited, but alas, it just went too long. People moved on to bigger and better things.

But really, it was a fun show to watch. I think by that point there had been too many spinoffs back to back, and people were tired.

SG:O though does look like it could be a good deal of fun.

@zombiegenesis said in Good TV:

I don't know if it's going to be good or not but I am super excited for Stargate Origins. Stargate is one of my all-time favorite movies and SG-1 is one of my all-time favorite TV shows so this has me super stoked.

Oh man, this could be glorious. I still feel SG:U didn't get a fair shake.

@lisse24 said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@auspice said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

I would not mind running such a scene, but if no one ever tells me they want a research scene, I'm probably not going to just run one off the cuff... because most people don't want scenes like that. In my experience, most people don't show up to scenes like that. They show up to the big flashy action! events.

So you need to at the very least alert your plot runner to the fact that you want to do research via RP. If you never say a thing, they can only assume you don't want that thing.

I generally add OOC notes to my stuff, wrap up scenes with OOC notes, etc. for people to let me know if they want to do more. If they want to follow up on something. If they want to see more scenes. I try to make myself as available as possible (as a Staffer, a player, an ST). I know I am an available person because when I Staff, people are generally perfectly comfortable coming to me with questions (about CG, wiki help, concerns, etc...)...

...but I almost never get followup on plot. This is why I think that the vast majority of people just want to be spoon fed their plot.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but have you ever scheduled a follow-up/research/discussion/planning event for a plot? Because it seems PRPs are usually just these quick action events. More often then not, I walk away from PRPs confused and thinking "Well, what am I supposed to do now?" I can't quite process the action with what I was supposed to have learned with how my character should follow-up. It's not even clear to me whether I should be following up or whether the event was just meant to be a one-off kill-a-thing.

Something isn't real to me and doesn't really penetrate into who the character is until I've had plenty of opportunity to RP about it. I love doing RP about what my character is achieving/accomplishing/involved in, even if no one else picks up quite what's going on. To that end, I, personally, love a library/research/planning scene. I don't think they take away from the story. I think they make the story. I mean, there's a reason those scenes are in every Buffy episode.

Although, I'm probably not the best person to critique PRPs, I largely don't participate in them for all the reasons listed above. If I thought that a PRP would be a meaty thing that really gave me something to sink my teeth in and RP about, though? If I knew there would be follow-up and the plot wouldn't just disappear after a random scene or two? I'd be all over that in a sec.

One thing I really really like is when PrPs have lasting repercussions. I've been on places where admins will read a log, and it'll inspire them to do something. Whether that something is a rumor that hits the streets, or the cops knocking down their door, it gives it that sense of immersion.

@thatguythere said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

Anomaly

Well, I know Shadowrun Seattle had them, and I believe they launched in 93-ish?

shrug They're definitely way more mainstream now, though, yes.

@thatguythere said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@quinn said in Encouraging Proactive Players:

@ThatGuyThere How do you do that though without having a staff member always be around in every room any RP is happening in just in case someone wants to RP researching something related to a plot? Seriously asking.

Mostly it was done with a quick page or by mail. I know there is little real difference to me but the page/mail route seems like normal player to GM interaction, and +request feels like filling out forms. I am pretty sure this is due to when I started mushing. Back then pretty much everything was handled by mail so I learned to accept it, +jobs didn't exist til I was set in my ways so I avoid it.

+jobs are 20+ years old. Just FYI.

Edit: Not trying to be snarky, it really is an FYI. You might not have played on places they were on, but they've been around for eons.

@coin said in Good TV:

@surreality said in Good TV:

Umpteenthing the Altered Carbon recommendation.

Another one that would make a fantastic game setting, too.

It's basically cyberpunk with practical immortality. XD

I think I just came a little.

@faraday said in Charging for MU* Code?:

@thenomain The average rate for a seasoned programmer is about $50/hour IIRC, so it would not be unreasonable to charge anything up to that value.

Of course, those kind of rates would likely be beyond the budget of what most folks would be willing to pay for a hobby project. $1000 for a custom chargen anyone? Heh.

Which brings us back to the age-old debate about "fair value" vs "what the person can afford value" that tends to devolve into flame wars whenever people ask for people to work for below-market rates on hobby art or writing projects.

Which just leads me to say, in all seriousness (but probably not very helpfully): Charge whatever your time is worth to you.

Before anyone starts one of said flame wars about hobby charging here, please just go to the mud connector and have at it there. I mean, it's all been said to death, but you're welcome to rehash it.

I think I've got a dead horse around here somewhere.

@thatguythere said in Social Systems:

@ortallus
I would tend to prefer a beefier system than just a one role decides thing, after all most combats are not decided with one attack, at least between folks of roughly the same ability. (High XP WoD being a notable exception but the draw of WoD has never been the system for me.)
@surreality
In the case of the intimidate I would prefer some sort of emotional health track just like most games have physical ones, the first blow might not cause someone to crack but enough time and they will, that is after all how interrogation works in RL, not many people confess right away, after ten hours most will (often even if nothing is there to confess to.) much like one punch doesn't end most boxing matches (early Tyson being the exception) but over the course of a few rounds a lot of them do.

Woah woah. I think you're on to something here. Like instead of hit points/health whatever, you're using some sort of.. I donno, conversation points? Influence? Social points? Whatever the case, you could have a bit of back and forth, with actual RP poses each round that included conversation and various other things. The person who loses their points first gains the upper hand socially.

It would perhaps require a great deal of careful planning out, but that could be brilliant.

"Damage" bonuses or penalties could include the difficulty of what they're trying to convince you to do and situational modifiers. You try telling someone who loves their mother to shoot them, that's going to be like -10 damage. But if you can wear down their emotional health enough, they might just do it just to get you to shut up.

@surreality said in Social Systems:

Question: do you think it's necessarily relevant whether someone is telling the truth or a lie when it comes to convincing another character about the story they're telling?

Yeah, I'm still working on skill names. And one task is, arguably, the one that would be used to lie -- to sell a story. Of course, sometimes it's just as hard in the context of any given scene to convince someone of the absolute unvarnished truth. (Circumstances in a game can often be fantastical or strange enough that the truth and any lie someone tells about it would be equally hard to believe anyway.)

I'm thinking of just calling this task 'convince' (and then people can get expertise in lying, or being extra earnest, or whatever else can be associated with it). That would, arguably, not tip off the other player as to the truth or falsehood of the story just by seeing the name of the roll as it happens, which could arguably be a plus.

Thoughts?

If you're going to have specializations, a 'fast talk' should definitely be among them, as well as maybe the 'long con'. Also, from the sounds of things in this thread, definitely definitely give examples of how far you can impose upon someone else's RP.

http://www.newsweek.com/parents-are-making-their-children-drink-bleach-cure-them-autism-793197

Fuck you anti-vaccers. Fuck you science deniers. And fuck your neck socket after I cut off your head you fucking idiots who force your child to drink mother fucking bleach.

@insomnia said in Cheap or Free Games!:

Cortex Command is free right now on Steam. Not sure how long as I already had it.

It is free through the weekend, but you keep it forever, unlike standard Free Weekend games. If you click the original link there's a ticker banner above a "watch developer play" type window. Apparently this is to celebrate the launch of some other game.

Looks like you can pick it up as late as 2/8/18

@thatguythere said in Social Systems:

@ortallus said in Social Systems:

What he is saying there is that social systems shouldn't be included because they're not used for the majority of situations where mechanical arbitration is needed.

No it is not, my first post in this thread (which you replied to in fact) was replying to someone who said that Social skills should only be used on npcs. And I said that would be stupid because it would make them horribly cost inefficient compared to physical that could be used on both.
I am very much saying that social systems should be used in all appropriate situations rather against PCs or NPCs.

Then I misunderstood your intent when you said put this in:

"My question would be if social can only be used on NPCs but physical can be used on PCs and NPCs and they cost the same , you would be doing yourself a disservice to not buy physical over social.
Especially because in most RP environments a well written pose describing IC awkwardness will win you more friends than a poorly written one describing social awesomeness, so you can follow the mechanical rules pose your low social stats yet get the full benefit of having higher ones except for the occasional use on an NP"

I suppose by the time I said that you claimed social skills were useless, I was being a bit hyperbolic. I also see your point in saying that they should be usable on PC's. I'll even agree, with a caveat:

It should be an opposed check. You roll your influence I roll my resistance, and then we find a score. We find out not a "Yes" or "No" answer, but now you've got a good gauge on how much Player A influences Player B.

It is then up to Player B to translate what that means.

If Player B is a power gamer that refuses to make reasonable choices and RP appropriately, he'll find himself out of people to RP with, and a reputation, pretty darn quick.

If Player B is willing to make compromises that make a great story for everyone involved, then he's likely to get lots of good RP.

But if I'm ever on a place where someone says "My character tells you to drop your weapon" and then rolls intimidate, and there's no force powers or magic or other hoodoo behind it? Then I'm going to look at them and wonder, "Can I beat them to the draw? What's the situation? How intimidated am I really by the smurf with a nerf bat and 20 charisma telling me to drop my weapon? Yeah, no."

And if that's breaking rules, then it's not the place for me. It might be the place for you, and that's okay. But it's not the place for me.

And that's ultimately the big kicker. You'll never please all the people all the time. Find a system that you want to play or run, and play or run it.

@lotherio said in Social Systems:

@thenomain said in Social Systems:

Imagine how dull a Shadow Run game would be if you weren’t engaging the conceit there in the title of the game!

I can't keep up wholly with the conversation. But what if game wasn't in the title. What if it was just Shadow Run MUSH, and folks only wanted to RP and story tell?

Well, 1) It'd be moderately silly. But... 2) Shadowrun is a fantastic and RP opportunity rich environment. You can take the 'Run' out, but if you take the 'Shadow' out, you've just lost all theme completely.

@auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@ortallus said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@arkandel And this is why I do not and will never have an account on reddit. If the internet is a cesspool, reddit is the film at the bottom.

there are parts of reddit that are awesome. But they are the smaller ones. the nail polish community was amazing. randomactsof<blank> was amazing. etc. But you have to put effort in to locate those places.

Yeah, I've heard that. But there are enough other places to make it not worth the effort given the ratio of bullshit to useful manure.

@thenomain said in Social Systems:

@faraday

This is my point and has been my point. If the game is about a thing, you play about the thing. Imagine how dull a Shadow Run game would be if you weren’t engaging the conceit there in the title of the game!

All of Shadowrun: Denver, please read the above quote. <.<