Posts made by Pandora

@Kanye-Qwest It'd be awesome if anyone else that that has struggled with this issue felt cool coming forward to give their opinion on it, I know @Kestrel posted earlier about their experience, which falls pretty squarely within the lines of what I mean to address, namely the fact that current policies tell people that they have recourse to assert themselves, but generally do not have a streamlined, game-wide accepted process by which to do so.

Saying 'Hey could we not?' is a passive inquisitive & invites further discussion, leaving one open to being pressured, coerced, or worse - having your concerns twisted into a narrative they can then use to vilify you.

As someone with firm boundaries, I often opt to throw the game out with the bathwater when I see drama headed my way these days because I apparently suck at OOC communication; I type words when people are upset & they almost invariably make things worse. It'd be nice to be able to just throw out the drama without exchanging words further. Sometimes in text-based games, the less words, the better.

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Armageddon MUD:

Oh good lord, no. If it says 'contains sex and violence' on the label, expect it to contain sex and violence.

I wish. But no, if it contains sex anyone doesn't like, violence that isn't OOCly prearranged and agreed upon by all parties, and heaven forbid it mixes sex & violence together - you are bound to have a shitstorm or two because there really is no line of demarcation between IC action and OOC motive anymore, if MSB is to be taken as any indication of public sentiment.

@faraday If telling people to use OOC I'm uncomfortable with this was in any way a solution to the problem of people being able to establish their own personal boundaries, this thread wouldn't exist, the problem wouldn't exist. It's disheartening to have to keep saying that, because while I do agree (and have said so at least once) that it works for some people, it doesn't work for the people this one particular thread is trying to find actionable, meaningful solutions for, after the tried and true and fallible options already in place just have not been enough. I get it, you think my idea is useless. We absolutely don't have to keep discussing my idea! I am open to and actively seeking other new ideas.

@faraday Hopefully you can appreciate that this thread is about the people that don't generally come to you or staff on other games with their problems though; as stated in the original post, this thread is about the people that are not finding the current way of doing things sufficient. I do appreciate your input though, I'd never expect 100% agreement on any issue on MSB but it's still interesting to hear where the line is drawn on different games.

@surreality This works when there's no conflict; I don't believe there needs to be a command for an amiable FTB when a page or two will do.

@faraday Does your policy specify what comes after ooc Hey I'm uncomfortable with this. in any way? Does that mean they don't have to RP anything further in that scene? Is the culture expectation on your game that they negotiate what happened after the FTB, or is it that the scene is retconned? Are they expected to discuss it right that moment while possibly upset? Does your policy specify what staff member should be contacted, or what to do if the person in question is a staffer? Does it say what to do in the event there is no staffer available at the time of the incident?

If every single one of these questions on any game doesn't have a clear-cut, immediately identifiable answer, then I can see the benefit of a Stop Now & No Quibbling About What You Get Out Of This Until Staff Is Available option, whether it's a coded command or a line in a policy. Different strokes for different folks, but I really don't understand this sentiment of 'What we're doing is fine' when the point of the thread is that what we're doing isn't working for everyone.

I've no intention of putting words into anyone's mouth but it reads a lot like 'No further consideration will be taken for all of the people who, historically throughout our years of discussions of the Spiders and Custodiuses & the like out there, have not felt comfortable using ooc Hey I'm uncomfortable with this.'.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Personal Agency for Personal Boundaries:

No, it isn't, but it is doable and should be done.

It is doable and it is often done, but the degree to which it is successful varies between games and literally nowhere I've seen is it done perfectly or even to a degree to which I'd ever, say, want my child to experience. The culture of a game can only do so much to deter players that are not acting in good faith, the same way a constitution can only do so much to ensure law and order. There still need to be safeguards and systems in place to catch things that make it past the culture checkpoints, like harem-builders who smile nicely and offer newbie help and RP hooks but will ice you out of roleplay if you don't do X.

@Tinuviel said in Armageddon MUD:

@Derp Though a Universal Declaration of Rights would be ridiculous, I do believe that there is a vast majority of people that hold certain OOC behaviours to be reprehensible regardless of what game they're playing on. Not IC behaviours, OOC ones. I'd even go so far as to argue many of these objections are objectively sound - the detestation of stalking and grooming, for instance.

There's so much gray area there that defining these things in any way that could lead to reprimand or accountability would be daunting if not impossible. Behaviors that can look like stalking (messaging someone with incredible frequency, asking them for RP scenes daily, making friends with all of their friends, etc.) might be just a good friend & everything is great - but then they have a falling out and suddenly all these signs of friendship are presented as evidence of stalking, and then what.

Met mine on a MUD. His rl girlfriend's character bullied mine (broke both her arms actually) and his character took care of mine while she was in double-casts (yes it was as cute/ridiculous as it sounds).

We didn't get married until like 10 years after that incident, but it still counts.

@Rinel said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

"is that a real friend you've met in person" questions from my father from time to time.

If this isn't the whole truth and nothing but the truth! I married my 'internet friend' and it's still my mother's favorite confusing story to tell.

@Warma-Sheen Not to nitpick, but code red would ideally be STOP NOW, CEASE AND DESIST. What you're referring to would be more code yellow, which would ideally be WE'RE HEADING INTO BAD TERRITORY, CAN WE DISCUSS BOUNDARIES BEFORE WE CONTINUE.

As the parent of a kid very active in the Roblox/Discord roleplay scene, let me just say that if your kid isn't running into your room every 5 minutes to howl laughing as they share every even-remotely-scandalous thing so-n-so said or emoted or to fume angrily at every perceived injustice encountered... lucky you fostering open lines of communication and non-judgment can be much less stressful than trying to log everything ever, especially as reading back over what's happened isn't addressing issues in real-time.

@Tinuviel Be that as it may, it's turned into a back and forth based on the incident in question regarding this game, and if you don't care to continue discussing Armageddon Mud in the thread called Armageddon Mud you're of course perfectly able to ignore my post and continue on around without being condescending as if somehow it's ME that's gone off topic, thanks.

@Tinuviel said in Armageddon MUD:

@Pandora You know we're talking generally now, right? And not about this MUD in particular?

You know what thread we're in right?

The accuser shares an IP address with someone that has been found to have tried to instigate drama against this staffer in the past; the odds of that being a coincidence are slim enough that it can't be ignored.

In today's social climate, you will always get a handful of upvotes for 'Better safe than sorry - fire them!' posts because that's the easy answer that seemingly solves the issue. Except now you're down one staffer that may well be a victim of someone's prank or vendetta.

Also, did you lot read that Discord conversation? That was so 0-100 it was pretty much the Pornhub version of 'Let's Be A Sleazy MU Staffer'; anyone that's been staffing on one game for over a decade who is that indiscreet with a completely new player is going to have a track record a mile long with other new players, not just people who after 10 years don't like them anymore after being banned. And if that's the case and they haven't been fired yet, this is just a waste of time, don't play there.

@Tempest Sometimes the directive 'by any means necessary' can go from 0 to 100 real quick. We're not here to judge, we're here to troubleshoot.

@Tempest Uh uh. Take that raggedy bullshit back to the Hog Pit. I respect your fire but this isn't the time or the dumpster for it.

@BlondeBot In my native language, 'be consistent and keep doing the one thing' = do nothing different. If you disagree, it's probably a language barrier of some sort, can't be helped.

@BlondeBot This isn't about any specific game, it's about a recurring issue we see in this community where people have felt uncomfortable speaking up because there are no clear-cut policies in place for how conflict resolution should be handled. I don't have any hostility toward you or what you're saying, I'm just disagreeing with your stance that doing nothing different is the best option.