Posts made by Rook

@Arkandel
So you would no-contact two players after one incident, to the point of banning public RP?

See, there is something I wouldn't do. It is one thing to have a page block set on them, but banning them from thematic/core-theme RP with other players? Hell no. That is a perfect opportunity to have said other players report back on whether said Aggressor was actually aggressive, or if the Aggressee (is that a word) might be overstating the case.

You glossed over (for the sake of argument, I get it) the 'why' and 'what' that the Aggressor did, in your example. So help me understand your example here. Are you saying that the Victim would write up logs that never happened? Yes, that is something that Staff will be hard-pressed to catch or even prove, I agree. That is a hell of a lot of effort and underhandedness, a surprising amount actually, just to 'take someone out' of the IC scene for your own personal advancement. Shit, is that the type of crap that we're talking about, the extremes that happen out there?

My ignorance might be showing here, but I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint and example. I think I am following you, though. Agreed that the lines are muddy, of course they are.

You are responsible for your behavior and actions at all times.

This is something I wish people would enforce and expect from each other a lot more than most seem to. If Bob goes onto another medium and talks shit about a game, that game has the right to hold him to it, given evidence. If Bob is talking shit about a player, that player equally has every right to avoid Bob for whatever OOC reason. It doesn't matter if it was Skype or a Web Forum or a Munch that Bob was caught spouting cruel things. I have the right, as a game owner/staffer, to ostracize you from my game for talking shit*. <cane_waving> A lot of the problem of people's behavior on an anonymous medium is due to the fact that they operate differently in this internet circle as opposed to that internet circle. </cane_waving> Some take that to extremes.

I feel that if someone is vitrolic outside your game, what are they doing inside your game? They certainly aren't likely to be cooperative, inclusive, positive, the way we want all of our players to be. Someone going through a momentary upset of something is one thing, but a pattern (there's that word again) is altogether evidence of someone's truer, base feelings.

As for targeting a person for stalking or abuse? Absolute ban, in my opinion, given evidence of a pattern. That should be entirely unacceptable. For fuck's sake, we're talking about a hobby in where TRIGGERS are a common and flammable subject, so why would you allow anyone to stalk and let that slide?

*Granted, a venting wouldn't warrant this reaction from me. We all vent, I get that. But those that repeatedly bitch tend to be very destructive to games, foment upset on that game, and drive players away whether you realize that they are doing it or not.

I think my implied question should've been clearer: How do you NOT come to a game like this and make every fucking effort to be different, anonymous and someone new? My point here is - someone who doesn't do this, is either blissfully self-ignorant and in denial of accusations before, or they are (as so many have said) happily arrogant and uncaring for the reputation that precedes them.

I am the one that snagged Insomnia's free key. It works.

Here's a question... how does someone like this come back into the community and NOT try to do so, if their intention is pure and honest, anonymously? Doesn't the consideration of that question lend some credence, one way or the other, to understanding intent?

Can this be likened to a convicted sexual predator moving into your neighborhood? I think it can be.

I think that game staff, and players, have every right to say, "No nope!" to someone that is a habitual, long-term offender. Period. End of discussion at that point.

@Thenomain
No no. I was posting in the spirit of a more generalized thread, not her specifically. It seems to me that the comment of 'why start a thread like this' is going to come up rather quickly, so I guess I sort of answered that. Dumb?

While we may label some threads and discussions about individuals as 'witch hunts', there is some positive usage of such threads to others who are innocent but vested bystanders. It serves as a heads-up to asshattery. It serves as a warning that So-and-So is on That Place, and that can help others:

• Guard themselves a bit when interacting with them.
• Identify destructive/negative behavior sooner rather than later.
• Avoid them altogether, if they so choose.

Just sitting and bitching about someone isn't constructive, giving examples and semi-factual data is.

I've always said that the first group to establish RP in a public place has the privledge of setting tone, action and scene. They took the initiative to get things started, likely have something in mind as to direction and maybe a plot, who knows.

People who join should take the time to meld into the scene, not try and force the scene to adapt to them.

@Coin No, I was not.

So that brings a question to mind that I'll pose:
We have been discussing PRPs in other threads, encouraging players to start things up. What if this was the beginning of a light PRP? Or a heavy, far-reaching PRP? (@Arkandel made clarifications that this was not the case, so I'm on board!)

I reread what Ark said, from a different viewpoint, since Coin made me realize that I might have misunderstood, and yes, I agree with his points. Player totally steamrolled. Sorry, totally answered that from an IC perspective, momentarily forgetting the OOC thing. Duh.

@Arkandel
I dunno, Ark. I could really go with that, since it was entirely IC, and the mob was right outside. That implies, to me, that it is a currently-running, happening-right-now plot, and it is entirely plausible that someone would burst into a room all bloody and needing help.

If it had happened a day or two ago, yeahno. But RIGHT NOW? Yeah, that should interrupt what is happening in the next room, as 1) they should have ICly heard the mob's shouts and screams outside, 2) might've noticed the torches from the windows.

Sorry to nitpick your example.

^ I cannot upvote @Auspice enough for that post.

Now we know, right? That's been our shortcoming all along!

This exact behavior is what I abhor most. I have been introduced to a RPer on a game that literally would fill your screen with me-me-me crap posing, and somehow many people that this RPer walked on water. I gagged when said RPer tried to give me advice on how to RP and be popular and have a following.

@Thenomain
Eh. Portal 2 is not something that they came up with, it was a sequel to a game that was submitted to them by a student project. Portal 2 itself was only developed because of internal clamor at Valve by the developers themselves wanting, itching, to code something fun.

DOTA 2 was again, building on someone else's ideas and work, namely Blizzard.

Neither one of these games started as creativity within Valve, sir.

@WTFE, I think he lost a word in there: "people in India and [those] who've lived"

I have an eye-rolling test. If I roll my eyes at someone's posing three times in a short enough span of time, I'm out. Generally, this is for:

• Self-aggrandizement, going on and on about how sexy, cat-like, hulking, brutish or any other descriptor you are. If you have to repeat this more than one time in a scene, you are annoying.
• Drawing attention to one's self through actions. This is different, slightly, from above, in that I mean here that the character does IC actions to literally draw attention to them in the scene. Grand entrances, bursting out into Singing in the Rain, and so forth.
• You get two TLDRs with me before I write you off as a RPer. The only exceptions to this are scene-setting poses and exposition narrative about a plot, scene, or critical IC information.

@WTFE said:
Players are enjoined to run plots, but only if the plots don't in any way, shape or form touch the grid in the slightest. So your PrPs are fine so long as they have zero noticeable impact on the setting!

So I read this and think to myself, when I was building and advertising Umbral Shards as a game entirely designed to be modified, changed and built out by the players... no one was willing to either believe it or touch it with a ten foot pole... where is the draw?

Granted, I suspect that most everyone that checked the project out was a MSB reader, so the sort of group-think that has lead WTFE to that conclusion above might be statistically prevalent amongst those that showed up. Thus, there was a lot of uncomfortable feelings when reading the intent and mission statement of the game. See, US was supposed to be entirely PRP-driven, with the locks taken off and the players trusted to not only do dangerous things, but game-changing things. That was the entire dream!

Now, granted, to do such a thing you need a structured game system to keep everyone on the same thoughts of power-level and capabilities, both as PCs and as GMs running monsters or NPCs or whatever. That's where I came up short.

Upload it to an object on your game and find out. That is the best way to test it.

@HelloProject said:
The reasons people don't usually do this is because often staff can't handle the emotional stress of removing players, or because there are friendships they don't want to damage. Weighing personal feelings against the emotional health of the game as a whole is difficult, and there's no easy answer for that, because staff aren't robots. However, I consider this to be a serious problem.

I want to say here that I think that a lot of games are friend-boxes, not run like a business like many of the playerbase would prefer. I think that most every game out there is run but a tight-knit group that have a core group of players that either fuel the game, built the game, or have been friends with the owners/staff for a long time.

Couple this with the tightness of the MU* community (come on, we aren't thousands and thousands of players), you swim in a small pond when you MUSH. Piss this person off here, they will retaliate there. You sometimes have no idea (unless you know them well from someplace like MUSoapbox) who you are burning the bridge with.