Best posts made by Seraphim73

Several others have covered the fragility of game balance here (if you do want to go into something so complex, I would gather together a half dozen of the munchkiniest power-gamers you can and have them try to break the system before you even -think- about opening to the public), so I'll leave that alone except to say that gathering an alliance of PCs to overwhelm other opposition won't necessarily create RP... you'll get a group of OOC friends together who will stealth-group-app, having everything they need to support the wild-ass warships/troops.

No, what I want to address is the names used for the various ship types. They're utterly intuitive. Frigates and Corvettes work well enough, they're both patrol/escort vessels iRL, but if a Ship of the Line is a Battleship, it should be a heavy combatant, better than Cruisers or Battlecruisers (and certainly Destroyers). May I suggest instead the term "Monitor," "Assault Ship," or "Gunboat" (or if you want to keep the Age of Sail-y feel, "Galleon")? Then you can keep the "Cruiser" larger than it without dissonance from people who know ship classes. Next up, Destroyers are less powerful than Cruisers in modern parlance, and having it be the other way around provides cognitive dissonance. Perhaps using Destroyer for the ship between Frigate and Cruiser, and Battlecruiser and Dreadnaught for the two Space Noble ship types?

This may seem like a small thing, but when you have a complex system with a lot of the details hidden behind the curtain, you want the names to be as intuitive and clear as possible.

Totally separate, conscript units are generally useless for garrison duty on their home turf, as they'll just disappear as members desert. The term you probably want is probably "militia" or "levies."

@aria I didn't take it as a trick questions or anything. There are two options for new characters joining the grid: 1) They were there all along since the Storm (for whatever value of "there" the player wants, either on one of the ships, in Tortuga itself, elsewhere on the island, or on a now-wrecked ship somewhere around the island), and 2) they wash up on Tortuga when they hit the grid, having just been drawn into the Storm in the Real World (yes, this a thing that will continue to come up for the duration of the Spirit World trip).

I'm gonna do it... it depends.

I think it depends on the game you want to run (and consequently, play). I think that one of the first game design decisions that a game set in a canon universe has to make is: how closely are we going to cleave to canon. Everything flows from that decision.

If you decide to cleave tight to canon and treat it like an alternate timeline where it's trying to "repair" itself back to the story everyone knows (but players can make a difference in how things happen, for instance), then you're going to want FCs who maintain thematic integrity (you can have OCs in The Avengers, but it's always going to have Cap and Iron Man and whoever you define as integral in it), who stick with their canon relationships, and who might need soft resets with new players to get back closer to their "canon situation."

If you decide that you're just picking a starting point and whatever happens happens after that? Then I think you can let the canon Avengers retire or join the Justice League or whatever, you can let them find true love wherever they like (so long as they continue to follow the characterization approved by Staff, as @Coin mentioned), and there's no need for resets unless someone does something totally whacky (in which case I figure it's a retcon)--and all resets should be explained ICly, as @faraday mentioned.

There are a couple of points that I think should be handled the same no matter the game type, however. First, I believe that unless someone is specifically called out as The Best at something, then OCs should be able to match them. If, however, they are called out as The Best, I think that OCs should have to be at least one step below them at all times. Second, unless you're on a comic book game, I think that FCs should be NPC quest givers only. They shouldn't be played (except by Staff as necessary to provide plot hooks to the PCs). Because while Han Solo hanging out in a bar chatting with people makes sense, Rand al'Thor doing it casually, or Lexa kom Trikru, or Commander Adama, or whomever... just doesn't feel right to me.

Pineapple pizza with jalapeno slices lurking beneath the cheese: Pain Pizza!

Also, Canadian bacon and pineapple.

Also, pepperoni and black olives.

Also, gyro pizza with tzatziki sauce for dipping.

Also, chicken caesar salad pizza (lettuce is added after cooking, of course).

I don't know that it's always as clear-cut as either/or. I think it's definitely a continuum. For instance, I usually have 1-2 "main" characters that I will play as my PCs, but so long as the theme/metaplot interests me, I enjoy having guest-stars here and there, in the vein of a particularly entertaining/characterful clone trooper accompanying Jedi into the field to handle the stuff that Jedi never know how to do.

If those guest-stars can elicit emotional responses from the PCs, then I usually enjoy myself in the scene even if I'm not playing one of "my" characters.

In some ways, I think this divide emphasizes the difference between personal stories or game stories. Are you more interested in seeing the personal story of your own character advance, or the overarching story of the game advance. Of course, on a well-run game, both can happen at once, but folks still have preferences: do they like to see sweeping political/military/social changes across the landscape of the game, or do they like to see their own characters create/build/destroy relationships with other characters and advance toward (or in the vague and general direction of) their personal goals?

We posted a survey to our players recently, and finally managed to get out from under illness to collate the responses. I've included the survey questions and player responses below in case anyone here is interested about what players are saying and what we're looking to do about it (those respondents who had no answer to a given question or simply compliments are not included).

1. Which is your preferred option for moving forward with the storyline on The Eighth Sea?
   45% A little more of a guided tour through this section of the storyline, pushing toward a resolution and return to the Real World in 3-4 months.
   36% As intended, a slow, player-driven process taking 5-8 more months.
   9% Get us back to the Real World ASAP, even if we don't have to figure out how it happens.
   9% Do we have to go back? (player response)

2. What would you like to see more of while in the Spirit World? (choose as many as interest you):
   82% More emphasis on the "why" and "how" of The Storm
   64% Combat with NPC human adversaries
   64% New strangeness from outside the island
   55% Political maneuvering between NPC and PC groups (done via PCs, of course)
   55% Survival-style situations involving rationing supplies and forming defenses
   Other options getting votes: Spooky situations to be resolved with only RP or social skills, Monster of the Week quick-fights, Spooky situations to be resolved with only RP or social skills, Exploration of the island, and Exploration of the seas around the island

3. What sort of "shinies" would you be interested in being added to the game to provide characters, players, or both something to chase? (Choose as many as interest you)
   73% Magic items (relatively minor)
   73% Acknowledged areas of specialty/expertise (ie, "Oh, you want to buy grenadoes? You totally need to talk to Hawke")
   55% Roles in settlement governance (such as it is)
   55% Promotions in rank within crew/business/etc
   36% Luggers/Pinnaces for small-group use
   27% Gold
   Other: Faith-based charms and the like, and "Anything"

4. What would you like to see added to the grid?
   Player Houses. (Staff Sez: happy to put them together, just request where you would like it, the name you would like it to have, and what you want the desc to be).
   Themed islands (dinosaur island, aliens island, zombie island). (Staff Sez: Something //like// this is in the works in coordination with the "New strangeness from outside the island" option above).
   Locked rooms specific to a faction (Staff Sez: Probably not, because we don't intend the grid to sprawl much larger than it is. But scene-rooms are -great- for this, let us know if you want to learn how to use them).

5. What would you like to see added to theme?
   Politics, power plays between nations (after a Return). (Staff Sez: Definitely in the works. Probably between individual colonies first, then building up to nations if applicable).
   "Actual Theme, there's way too much information being passed off as theme currently. Things easily proven no less." (Staff Sez: We're not entirely sure what's meant by this comment, but we'd love to hear what you mean, drop us a request or a page?).

6. What would you like to see removed from theme?
   More spooky stuff, less Monsters Attack stuff.

7. What can we do to make it easier to get involved in day-to-day RP?
   Incentivize meeting new people?
   Give a reason for day-to-day RP. (Staff Sez: We'll try to provide more things to RP about... more detail at the end).
   Reward in-game scenes beyond posting logs. (Staff Sez: We do try to read all the logs that go up, and if people propose an adventure/mission/etc, we try to follow up with them to see if they'd like it run as a scene. We've also been known to drop a Luck point here or there for folks helping stir things up--Lafayette in particular is owed one soon. Logs are also a way we would pick out those to highlight for 'areas of expertise' and other shinies. We're interested in hearing other ideas for incentives).
   Feeling overwhelmed and without a point of entry. (Staff Sez: Ack! That's definitely not what we want to cause. Anyone who is feeling adrift, we're absolutely happy to talk about ways to weave your character into ongoing things. There's also a list of plot hooks on the bboard and on the wiki (http://the8thsea.wikidot.com/now) if you're looking for things to get interested in.

Conclusions:
We're definitely going to be shifting some things around as a result of this. We had previously been trying to lay out plot hooks and see what people followed, we'll try a more active form of storytelling to get us into some of the hows-whys-wheres-etc. We've heard on this survey and elsewhere that people are interested in sea-faring pirate-y stuff more than monster-slaying, and yeah... that's totally our bad. It's been on the list to do, but we felt like there were intermediate steps, ones that didn't seem to be happening. We're going to push them so we can get to some sea-faring skullduggery. We'll focus on some of the human monsters around, and push some of the critters into the background again. Minor magic items and charms are absolutely in the realm of creation by Pagan rituals, Voodoo favors, and Native spirit deals (Abrahamic prayers tend to be both more immediate and short-term), but we can also arrange for some to be found. We can also be more explicit in calling out areas of expertise. We will also work in some opportunities for "improved" positions and roles as well (and likely some promotions within crews as NPCs die and PCs idle out).

We also want to make it clear and explicit that we're always open to feedback and ideas. Don't wait for the next survey, if you've got something you'd like to say, drop us a page or a request. While some games may discourage directly player-Staff interaction, we're definitely not one of them.

Beautiful, beautiful bell curves. I want high skills to succeed most of the time, with only a tiny chance of failure. I want really low skills to fail most of the time, with a small (but not tiny) chance of succeeding.

@Rinel said in Game of Thrones:
***Thoughts on chivalry***

@Derp said in What do RPGs *never* handle in mu*'s? What *should* they handle?:

But then that brings us back to the age-old question of which matters more, the xp that the player has put into their dice pools (vs. your character's resistance pool) or the player's actual social skills? It's a debate that we've gone back and forth on before on a MU.

Heck, it's a debate I've gone back and forth on inside my head. Repeatedly. I think that I've come down on the side of "Social skills are for influencing NPCs, and RP is for influencing PCs." But that's far from perfect too. It certainly doesn't line up with combat skills at all, which can generally "influence" both NPCs and PCs (unless you're on a consent-based game). But I'm one of those people who thinks that you can change a PC's body if you've got the stats (it may be FTBed), but you should never be able to change the PC's thoughts unless the player chooses to allow it. I realize it's an odd line to draw, and I think it comes from the point of view of a writer.

That line has also frustrated the hell out of me. There is very little that infuriates me more than static characters, where it doesn't matter what you do, they're never going to change their view on the world. I realize that this is at odds with my belief that only the player should be allowed to change a character's thoughts, but... I've never claimed to be perfect.

Bwahahaha. I picked up Colossus and chatted with @Cupcake about relationship-fu without knowing it was her at all.

I really wish I had more time to play the big Russian.

@sunny said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:

I love the idea of the scenes code.

I think it should be implemented alongside a real grid, not instead of.

Yup! I love it too. And that's actually exactly what we tried to do on The Eighth Sea. We had about 30ish rooms (by the end) on the grid, but about 1/2 of them had pre-desced scene rooms that were ICly in that location that were listed below the room desc. Players were (of course) free to create their own scene rooms as well.

@faraday Yuuuuup. Totally agree. It's definitely a culture/people problem. Emblazoning "Open Scene" on open scenes is about as much as you can do from a tools perspective to help out.

Lena Headey is also fantastic in her (admittedly minor) role in Fighting With My Family, another criminally underrated film. Actually, it's less underrated than it is unknown. It's a biopic about WWE wrestler Paige, but it's extremely well done, funny, touching, and awesome. You don't have to like the WWE to like it.

@acceleration
I have many of the same enduring questions that you do about social skills on MU*s. I don't pretend to have all of the answers... or even any of them.

Your example of Bluff vs Perception is actually one that I don't mind at all, despite my stated preference for not influencing the mind of the character. But that's because it's a concrete example, and it doesn't change the character's thoughts. It just means that they failed to notice/question something. Sure, your character can look foolish if the Bluff is posed badly, but you the player still have control over their thoughts. More problematic to me is Persuasion, trying to convince a character to change their mind. It's probably going to take a whole lot more than a single Persuasion check to make a Paladin break their vows.

The question of torture vs seduction and which is rolled and which isn't is particularly troublesome, because there is a LARGE segment of the MU* population that would decide that their character would never break. And that's stupid. And yet I certainly don't want my characters (or at least not most of them, I've played some idiots in my time) falling for the line "So, bae, what's happening? I heard there's this top secret project going on, you should tell me about it" just because someone rolled high on their Interrogation/Seduction/Persuasion/Deception/Whatever check. To me it's a question of immersion.

There's also the creeper factor that you bring up: what about a total creeper player who rolls up a pornomancer character (maxed social/seduction skills, attributes, and bonuses) and goes around "seducing" characters whose players have no interest in such a thing? Yes, reducing the impact of such characters does reduce the impact of social-power characters. Absolutely. And that's unfortunate. But if there are plentiful NPCs to still influence (and to influence into providing physical protection for the social character), that impact can be minimized, in my opinion.

@pacha WoD isn't really my thing, but I really like the thought that went into the location. Especially the idea that a massive tourist town/city/island would make a great place to disappear semi-random people.

@faraday said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:

I hate them, along with weather emits. They either don't really add anything (do folks really care that a cool breeze whispered through the alley or a bird fluttered by overhead? maybe that's one of those immersion things I don't grok again...) or they're just incompatible with the RP already going on.

This is a big thing for me... what if weather is showing that it's a rainy spring day, but we wanted to RP a baseball game, so it has to be not-rainy? And then in the midst of RP, the system says that the rain changes to a drizzle? That's going to break immersion for me.

@thatguythere said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:

Essentially every scene now takes place on Holodeck 1 and we just slap a different image on the blue screen.

I kind of think that's what we're doing anyhow. We've just agreed on some settings for the Holodeck (Joe's Bar is a default setting in your example, Frank's Bar is a custom setting). And while yes, if you just create another nearly-identical bar after one burns down to set your RP in, you could be making the burning-down RP meaningless, but if instead you spent all the time at Frank's complaining about how the pool table was better at Joe's and how it sucks that there are only two stalls in the bathroom here, but Frank is way cooler than Joe, then I think that you're actually enhancing the RP--it's allowed to continue, but it's changed by the damage to Joe's. It's certainly better than if you just stopped doing RP in a bar because Joe's burned down (or had Joe's get repaired far too quickly because people needed some place to play pool).

@thatguythere said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:

Edit to add: For the Momma's diner thing, it would be like hearing that a random RL building burned down, a thought of I hope no one was hurt combined with a twinge of sympathy for the owner but no real impact.

I think it's important to remember that just because you've never RPed there, that doesn't mean that your character's never been there. After all, the characters live lives beyond what we put "on-screen," so maybe if Momma's Diner got blown up by Meteor Girl, you decide that your character always went to breakfast at Momma's before church, every dang week, but this week, you got talked into going to Dad's Diner instead, because your friend was in town, and oh-my-goodness isn't that lucky? You could have been killed. Viola, you have a connection.

@sunny said in Big city grids - likes and dislikes:

I don't know how to explain to you in a way that you will understand.

I think I'm somewhere in between the views of Grid-Is-Necessary-For-Immersion and Common-Experiences-In-Rooms-Is-All-That-Matters (yes, I'm using some hyperbole for clarity's sake), so maybe I can try to step in and take a swing at explaining the difference for @faraday. Warning, I am trying to generalize arguments, so please don't take anything I say as putting words in people's mouths.

On the one hand, having a sense of permanence by being on a grid can definitely lead to an IC location becoming one that characters (and hence players) interact with regularly. I thought that a similar sense could be inspired by having room descs stored and available for "loading" into scene rooms whenever people wanted them. It appears that that didn't exactly work. The Pro-Grid folks (if I'm synthesizing correctly) need to have the location on the grid, connected to everything, where they can walk to it, in order to get that sense of permanence. I can understand that to some degree, there's an ephemeralness to a room that simply disappears when you're done with it, even if the IC location (and the room desc and everything else) remains available.

From a code-side, a scene-room with a ready-made desc is just as real as a room on the grid. You just can't walk to it (in my experience, most people use meetme anyhow, but that's neither here nor there). From the story side, as @faraday mentioned, it's just as real also (although harder to track what's going on around the location or in the history of the location unless it has its own steadily-evolving desc or wiki page). From a player-side experience, however, I can definitely see a level of disconnection between having to "create" the room before using it rather than just walking into it.

As I mentioned earlier, we tried to split the difference on T8S. We put up a Locations page with room descs. Some of these rooms were on the grid, some were simply ready-to-be-used scene rooms. By the time RL really swallowed Staff whole, we had linked several more of the rooms to the grid (and added some more to the ships), but the idea was still the same: a small grid that could be expanded at will. For some people, it worked fine, for others, it clearly felt like there weren't enough locations to RP.

This may be one of those Coke/Pepsi, Windows/Mac Blue Dress/Gold Dress (thanks for the third example, @faraday) things where each side believes wholeheartedly that they're right, and just can't understand how the other side can believe what they do.

@Roz That outfit. So awesome.

@Sunny said in Leadership, Spotlight, and PCs of Staffers:

You just don't get to run them for yourself.

Why?

That may sound flippant or even dismissive, but it's really not intended to be. I'm genuinely curious why you think that a player (whether they are a Staffer or not) should not be allowed to run scenes that further their own character's personal story without impacting metaplot or providing them with benefits beyond some time in the spotlight.

I have my own reasons why I wouldn't want some players to do so, but they all relate to a distrust that the player would follow the criteria laid out above (or would break with theme), and it makes me sad that I have this distrust.

Sidenote, I think that it's a fantastic policy to always let people know that you're inviting them to participate in your character's story, rather than a "plot" scene, and I think the idea of a Storyteller's Storyteller (or more ideally, two, so they can help each other occasionally too) to tell stories for those who are always telling stories for other is a great one.

@Misfortune I think it's really unfortunate that having to be so excruciatingly careful of any hint, whiff, or suggestion of impropriety is ruining your enjoyment of your own game (or at least the character(s) you play on it). That's a great way to end up with people not running games.

This weekend we’re finishing up our first real location (Spain in the Spanish Civil War) and moving on. Starting next week, the airship aircraft carrier and floating black market known as the Guinevere will be settled in the southern Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia, immediately in the wake of the Anschluss of Austria by a resurgent and magic-centric Germany.

Did you get tired of punching proxies and want to go right up against the big bads? Were two nearby great dragons too few (the Gwen will be within 300 miles of 4 now)? Not enough opportunities for interrupting fascist rallies to steal things or blow something up?

Czechoslovakia might be just what you need to get into The Savage Skies. Our Current Adventurepage will be updated for the new location Saturday.

@thatguythere I do indeed believe that we're failing to communicate. Or, perhaps, we just have opposed points of view and that's fine. You feel the need to have prior RP setting something up (if I'm not mistaking your point now), I'm fine assuming the events happened off-screen and using them to build story going forward and hook my character into ongoing plot.

I do agree with you that inventing NPCs or locations just to kill/destroy them in an attempt to garner a reaction from PCs usually falls flat unless the players want their characters to feel the impact, in which case they can certainly create reasons to feel it.

Spending time on relatively-brainless computer games (WoW for my wife, CK3 for me), while sharing time watching TV shows we've already seen that show a better world than the one we have (The West Wing, Madame Secretary, etc). Trying to be okay cutting down my RP time because it requires creative energy and I just do not have that right now. Focusing on safety in public commitments, and focusing on the numbers/data for making public decisions.